Return of the Jets campaign (the sequel)

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King_Stannis

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Jun 14, 2007
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Apparently David Asper of CanWest Global said in a radio interview that he would be there for Mark Chipman (MTS Center) as a partner if they can get a team in Winnipeg. This is good news if only for the fact that Asper is filthy rich. So any notion that a potential team in Winnipeg would be scrimping by like some Dickensian street urchin suddenly has a whole lot less credibility.
 

Bear of Bad News

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Sep 27, 2005
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So any notion that a potential team in Winnipeg would be scrimping by like some Dickensian street urchin suddenly has a whole lot less credibility.

Colourful word pictures aside, I don't think that anyone reputable has made that claim. For starters, the league wouldn't allow a franchise there if it were in danger of not being able to meet its financial obligations.

In fact, I've always said that if someone wants to bankroll a team in Winnipeg, I'm all for seeing a team back there. I just don't think he or she will make a whole lot of cash while doing so.
 

King_Stannis

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Colourful word pictures aside, I don't think that anyone reputable has made that claim. For starters, the league wouldn't allow a franchise there if it were in danger of not being able to meet its financial obligations.

In fact, I've always said that if someone wants to bankroll a team in Winnipeg, I'm all for seeing a team back there. I just don't think he or she will make a whole lot of cash while doing so.


I think that with a sold out MTS Center and some solid corporate support, neither assured but both realistic possibilities, they would be probably be able to exceed their financial obligations. Especially if TrueNorth is the managing partner in the ownership group. They own the building, so not only does the team get cheap rent, they get concessions, parking and even non-hockey related revenues that can help out. They've already held meetings with the NHL and if they have taken it that far, you know they think they can make a go of it.

As to your second point, if Asper is there he can bankroll the team if it falls on a hard stretch. He certainly has the money to do so. :)
 

GSC2k2*

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In fact, I've always said that if someone wants to bankroll a team in Winnipeg, I'm all for seeing a team back there. I just don't think he or she will make a whole lot of cash while doing so.
And, in addition, as the Jettie website itself states,

In Winnipeg, it would be a stretch to come up with $200 million US knowing that money will never be re-couped. It is up-front cost, never to been seen again, gonzo.
 

King_Stannis

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And, in addition, as the Jettie website itself states,

That, of course, written before Asper's latest revelation - which occured last night. The man, I believe, is a billionaire. He told Mark Chipman that he could count on him if he could convince the NHL to return. READ: Here's my checkbook, how much did you need? Apparently his kid wants to see the NHL return to Winnipeg. Billionaires can afford very expensive gifts for their children.
 

GSC2k2*

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That, of course, written before Asper's latest revelation - which occured last night. The man, I believe, is a billionaire. He told Mark Chipman that he could count on him if he could convince the NHL to return. READ: Here's my checkbook, how much did you need? Apparently his kid wants to see the NHL return to Winnipeg. Billionaires can afford very expensive gifts for their children.
If you think billionaires drop $200 million on gifts for their kids, you need to get a grip.
 

King_Stannis

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If you think billionaires drop $200 million on gifts for their kids, you need to get a grip.

It's you that needs to get a grip. Despite 9 years of bleeding money in Nashville, their owner is probably still going to make money when he sells the team. It's an asset that appreciates. I'm pretty sure that any franchise in Winnipeg will do better in fan support than Nashville on Day One.

And as for the "gift" comment, it was just partially a jest. But his kid does apparently want him to bring the NHL back.

David Asper himself said that he is interested in being in an ownership group. You do understand that, don't you?
 

King_Stannis

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How much money has the Nashville franchise lost in total?

In total I'm not sure, but he claims he's lost $60 million in the last 5 years. The most damning evidence is from Leipold's mouth himself. This is a guy that wanted to make it work, sunk in big money for marketing the game, and is finally throwing in the towel.


http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2007/5/24/preds_owner_leipold_tires_of_losing_money_confirms_sale

Preds owner Leipold tires of losing money; confirms sale
Email | Print By Richard Lawson


Craig Leipold05-24-2007 11:33 AM — In a letter to Nashville Predators season ticket holders, suite owners and sponsors, team owner Craig Leipold explained why he is selling the team and confirms that it is being sold to Jim Balsillie, co-chief executive officer of Blackberry maker Research in Motion.

A press conference is scheduled for 2 p.m. this afternoon to announce the sale. Balsillie won't be in town to be at the press conference.

In his letter, Leipold stated that the team will have a $27-million real cash loss over the past two seasons because of below average attendance even though the team tallying up a total of 216 points, the fifth best in the NHL.

"Additionally, that loss is despite receiving the most in the league from revenue sharing," he wrote. "Over the last five years, the team has lost over $60 million." Leipold stated that the team has spent $50 million over 10 years in sales and marketing efforts mostly with local business and still, the attendance has fallen short. "A low turnout, combined with a low ticket price results in a poor financial situation," he wrote.

So in the end analysis, Leipold said he had to make "one of the most difficult decisions of my personal and professional life" and that is to sell the team. "It's time to give someone else a chance to take the Nashville Predators to the next level in terms of local business support," he wrote.

He didn't address that question of the potential for moving the team in the coming years. Presumably, that issue will brought up at the press conference.
 

GSC2k2*

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It's you that needs to get a grip. Despite 9 years of bleeding money in Nashville, their owner is probably still going to make money when he sells the team.

You do realize that according to all accounts, Nashville actually made money in its first few years, right?

It's an asset that appreciates.

Tell that to Disney. As well, all I am saying is that the most fanatical of the Jetties say otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that any franchise in Winnipeg will do better in fan support than Nashville on Day One.

I doubt it.

And as for the "gift" comment, it was just partially a jest.

Whew! I guess you are just partially deluded, then. :naughty:

David Asper himself said that he is interested in being in an ownership group. You do understand that, don't you?

Without having heard the interview, I understand that apparently it depends on which day you ask him.
 

Gnashville

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In total I'm not sure, but he claims he's lost $60 million in the last 5 years. The most damning evidence is from Leipold's mouth himself. This is a guy that wanted to make it work, sunk in big money for marketing the game, and is finally throwing in the towel.


http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2007/5/24/preds_owner_leipold_tires_of_losing_money_confirms_sale
Leipold is NOT reporting the 40 to 60 million he made off of the Arena that is not reported as income for the team:teach:
his net loss in no where near 70 million
 

GSC2k2*

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Well, I would presume that businessmen such as Mark Chipman and David Asper would know a little more about the attendance potential of an NHL team in Winnipeg than you do.


Since they have not even put in an offer for a team, evidently you are correct.

Incidentally, regarding your presumption, while I am sure David Asper has done a deal or two of decent substance in his tenure at Canwest, I highly doubt as a businessman that Mark Chipman's list of transactions would stack up to the ones I have been intimately involved in. You should proably not "presume" so much.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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You do realize that according to all accounts, Nashville actually made money in its first few years, right?



Tell that to Disney. As well, all I am saying is that the most fanatical of the Jetties say otherwise.



I doubt it.



Whew! I guess you are just partially deluded, then. :naughty:



Without having heard the interview, I understand that apparently it depends on which day you ask him.

Ugh, some more “fair and balanced” viewpoints from our friend Mr. Carpenter. This guy seems to have a major hate-fest against any good Canadian story. Our billionaires are just lucky apparently and have no good business sense or experience. Nashville and Atlanta are much better markets for NHL hockey than Winnipeg or Hamilton. Or at least he has “his doubts” about that despite the data which shows that to be a lie. Fellow Canadian hockey fans are called “Jetties,” despite the fact that they are still interested in the NHL after all the NHL has done to not accommodate them as NHL fans. His claims in another thread re. Chicago are disingenuous to say the least, and a flat out lie at best. I could go on and on. Folks, you are talking about someone with an anti-rational, anti-Canadian bias. I have no idea why he caught that disease but I can assure you it's not based on any facts or logic. Enough said for now. :help:

GHOST
 

King_Stannis

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Jun 14, 2007
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Wow. First you drop this bit of delusion about billionaire tech inventor Jim Balsillie:

...Balsillie is probably more intellectually capable than the average chip truck owner (and not to dis them at all), but I do not use that as a comparison. I compare him to the type of guys at a pretty high level of business. MBA's mean diddly in that arena, as I am sure you know.

As regards him being a billionaire and THAT being evidence of anything, well if there is anything we learned from the tech boom, it is that there is such a thing as an accidental billionaire.


And then you follow it up with this about Chipman and Asper:

Incidentally, regarding your presumption, while I am sure David Asper has done a deal or two of decent substance in his tenure at Canwest, I highly doubt as a businessman that Mark Chipman's list of transactions would stack up to the ones I have been intimately involved in. You should proably not "presume" so much.

I'm not sure what I can add at this point. There's an old saying that states when a man is bound and determined to make a fool of himself you simply need to get out of the way. I'm sure Mr. Balsillie, Mr. Chipman and Mr. Asper will be answering this accusation personally. Uhhh...no...wait a minute...on second thought they won't be here. They're too busy running successful businesses than to talk with a bunch of Comic Shop Guy clones (like you )about hockey. Incidentally your posts are much funnier when you read them in Comic Shop Guy's voice.

I guess the last thing I'll say is that you're a legend in your own mind, gscarpenter. You are the new breed of internet tough guy - rated X and born to snap necks...wit da power of yo' BRAIN!!!! :shakehead
 

Timmy

Registered User
Feb 2, 2005
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I have a sweet Winnipeg Jets hat that I break out once in a while. Chics dig it and the fact that I rarely wear underpants.




Sweet Jesus, we have a commando Jettie.






I haven't seen one those in a long, long, time.














Hail Hawerchuk!
 

Timmy

Registered User
Feb 2, 2005
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Ugh, some more “fair and balanced” viewpoints from our friend Mr. Carpenter. This guy seems to have a major hate-fest against any good Canadian story. Our billionaires are just lucky apparently and have no good business sense or experience. Nashville and Atlanta are much better markets for NHL hockey than Winnipeg or Hamilton. Or at least he has “his doubts” about that despite the data which shows that to be a lie. Fellow Canadian hockey fans are called “Jetties,” despite the fact that they are still interested in the NHL after all the NHL has done to not accommodate them as NHL fans. His claims in another thread re. Chicago are disingenuous to say the least, and a flat out lie at best. I could go on and on. Folks, you are talking about someone with an anti-rational, anti-Canadian bias. I have no idea why he caught that disease but I can assure you it's not based on any facts or logic. Enough said for now. :help:

GHOST



Your objective reporting of the facts is slipping a little bit, Ghost.

I thought you were just on these boards to (not insult the fans and members of HFBoards who follow the "non-traditional markets") give out facts in an unbiased and purely objective manner.

Now, you seem to be deviating away from the unbiased and objective statistical reporting and actually getting a tad personal with "Mr. Carpenter".


Well, at least you've convinced many a fan on this here Broads that Winnipeg is a viable choice, and that most Southern markets are not. Bravo.



I guess we'll see a team in Winnipeg next year.




Either that, you're going to be an annoying **** until they do.
 
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BrianSTC

Registered User
May 23, 2007
556
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Since they have not even put in an offer for a team, evidently you are correct.

I am sure if they believe an NHL team is feasible in Winnipeg they will make an offer for a team in due time. However, keep in mind, that they probably already have done the research into it…

Incidentally, regarding your presumption, while I am sure David Asper has done a deal or two of decent substance in his tenure at Canwest, I highly doubt as a businessman that Mark Chipman's list of transactions would stack up to the ones I have been intimately involved in. You should proably not "presume" so much.

It is a statement of fact that David Asper and Mark Chipman ARE successful businessmen. You are an anonymous poster on this forum. Unless you decide to enlighten us with your qualifications and supply proof, don’t be offended if I take what you say with a grain of salt.

I'm sure Mr. Balsillie, Mr. Chipman and Mr. Asper will be answering this accusation personally. Uhhh...no...wait a minute...on second thought they won't be here. They're too busy running successful businesses than to talk with a bunch of Comic Shop Guy clones (like you )about hockey

I have my suspicions as well.

King,
Are you Canadian or have you lived in Canada before?
 
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GSC2k2*

Guest
Ugh, some more “fair and balanced” viewpoints from our friend Mr. Carpenter. This guy seems to have a major hate-fest against any good Canadian story.

Thanks for your commentary, GHOST. Unfortunately, you have a habit of confusing straightforward, objective business evaluation with "hate" or "bias" (incidentally, I would have thought that you would have looked up the meaning of "bias" after we talked about that a month or two ago). To tell the truth, it would certainly not offend me for a team or two more in Canada. All i have ever said is that it is a bad business proposition, both for the NHL and for the investors who would sink their money into a franchise in those areas. Of course, while you often try your best to keep things at a business level, sometimes your true colours show through.

Our billionaires are just lucky apparently and have no good business sense or experience.

Nope, just the ones who commit amateurish blunders. Note that I did not include Mr. Asper amng them.

Nashville and Atlanta are much better markets for NHL hockey than Winnipeg or Hamilton.

In the long run, can you say which one is better? Oh, I know you can. You know all. :biglaugh:

Or at least he has “his doubts” about that despite the data which shows that to be a lie.

Oh my. The "data" for Winnipeg has shown exactly the opposite.

Fellow Canadian hockey fans are called “Jetties,” despite the fact that they are still interested in the NHL after all the NHL has done to not accommodate them as NHL fans.

This is rich!!! :help: The people to whom i refer to as "Jetties" are those raving fanatics who do not go to the trouble of doing eighth grade level math to check people's assumption, who do not go and check attendance figures, who do not test hypotheses. They act like members of a cult who are happy to hold their views and dang the contrary facts. They know what they know, and that is all there is to it. Heck, they will even make up facts to support their views. Some of thme will even take on multiple persona in this Board to make th esame argument under different names. NOTE: I do not hold you to be a Jettie. You are a special case. I have no doubt that you hold the same views as the true believers, but you are smart enough to know how some of their ravings come off and try to cloak your views with a thin veneer of business "logic". In other words, at least you discuss the right things which are actually relevant to the analysis, albeit in coming to a different conclusion than me or those who share my views.

That being said, your attempt to take my use of "jetties" and extrapolate it such that I am referring to "fellow Canadian hockey fans" is hamhanded and transparent. It is unworthy.

His claims in another thread re. Chicago are disingenuous to say the least, and a flat out lie at best.

Really?!? You are accusing me of lying? Pal, you do not know me. IF you did, you would know how outrageous that is, but keep that in mind - you do not know me. I know that deep down you take this personally, but that epithet is way out of line.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Wow. First you drop this bit of delusion about billionaire tech inventor Jim Balsillie

Mr. Balsillie did not invent anything. He is a businessman with the good fortune to know Mike Lazardis. Before you go around engaging in character assassination, you should probably have a little more knowledge of the subject matter.

I'm sure Mr. Balsillie, Mr. Chipman and Mr. Asper will be answering this accusation personally. Uhhh...no...wait a minute...on second thought they won't be here. They're too busy running successful businesses than to talk with a bunch of Comic Shop Guy clones (like you )about hockey. Incidentally your posts are much funnier when you read them in Comic Shop Guy's voice.

Hey, I am sure they have their own hobbies as well. This is mine. I am pretty busy myself with what I do for a living, but this is a fun little diversion for me. However, since you don't actually know what i do for a living (as of your post, at least), I am not sure how you would automatically think that being a successful businessman would prevent someone from posting here.

And sorry, I do not know who "Comic Shop Guy" is, so I had to go look him up. I don't watch the Simpsons. I got a chuckle out of your reference once i read up on him on Wikipedia, though. You keep right on thinking that.
 
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GSC2k2*

Guest
I am sure if they believe an NHL team is feasible in Winnipeg they will make an offer for a team in due time. However, keep in mind, that they probably already have done the research into it…

On that, we are agreed.

It is a statement of fact that David Asper and Mark Chipman ARE successful businessmen.

You are aware that David Asper is rich because he is the son of Izzy Asper, right?

You are an anonymous poster on this forum.

Um, anonymous?

Unless you decide to enlighten us with your qualifications and supply proof, don’t be offended if I take what you say with a grain of salt.

I will send you a PM.
 

BrianSTC

Registered User
May 23, 2007
556
4
Winnipeg
On that, we are agreed.

As much as I would love for Winnipeg to get an NHL team, both as a fan and a business owner in Winnipeg, I realize that the reality of a 50 million dollar salary cap, combined with some other issues that I won't get into, will make it extremely difficult.

You are aware that David Asper is rich because he is the son of Izzy Asper, right?

I think every Winnipegger realizes that. He has been molded into the position that he is in all his life. Nevertheless, I still regard him as a successful businessman.

Um, anonymous?

I will send you a PM.

At this moment, I haven't be able to confirm what you have sent...but I will give you the respect and take you at your word.
 
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