GDT: Red Wings vs. Flyers (7:30, NBCSN)

Redder Winger

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Just watch this. Start from 3/4 in. You can see like a million replay's slowed down.
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At 1:08 the puck is on its edge.
He lifts his stick to avoid touching the puck as it falls to the side and as he stretches the skate to the blueline -- tagging up.

Attached below is the closest I can get to him touching the puck before he really plays it.
Never once does a frame show him touching the puck with his stick.
 

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Redder Winger

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Using YOUR source you can see where the toe of his stick stops the puck as he took the pass from his team mate. You can clearly see this from the angle I posted.

FROM YOUR SOURCE:


Watch the million angles on NBCSN and you'll where he touched it better.


You're whining.
I've done all I can do.
Believe what you want.
 

Redder Winger

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See I think the reason it lays flat is the heel of his stick contacting it, but there is certainly nothing conclusive and the call on the ice stands at that point. You can also debate was the blade of his skate back when it happened. Like I said by literal interpretation of the rulebook you could make a case by him doing that while offside it should be already dead. It is what it is. I don't think this is a game worth getting really upset about the ending.

The two young guys we have playing off the charts also seemed more interested in arguing calls than continuing to do their jobs which bothers me more than debating this call.

But you're guessing.
I can see why you might guess that.
But I could easily guess that the wobbling puck was about to flatten.

And since I can see no evidence of stick touching the puck before he tags up, I can't make the call.

And I'm guessing the linesman, right on top of it, thinks the same thing.
 

TheMule93

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May 26, 2015
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For Babcock, a guy like bertuzzi would be love at first sight. Does all the little things right pretty much all the time. Would like him to bury some of those chances but at least he was involved in tons of em.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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But you're guessing.
I can see why you might guess that.
But I could easily guess that the wobbling puck was about to flatten.

And since I can see no evidence of stick touching the puck before he tags up, I can't make the call.

And I'm guessing the linesman, right on top of it, thinks the same thing.

I said twice already that without more evidence the call on the ice has to stand unfortunately. I just struggle to think the heel of his stick isn't making contact by the reaction of the puck. I think the bigger argument to be had is throwing their own NHL rulebook on why it wasn't blown dead before that, but still that is also a flimsy argument considering the way offside has been called for a while.

You just need to move on, we didn't make the plays to win tonight.
 

Redder Winger

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I said twice already that without more evidence the call on the ice has to stand unfortunately. I just struggle to think the heel of his stick isn't making contact by the reaction of the puck. I think the bigger argument to be had is throwing their own NHL rulebook on why it wasn't blown dead before that, but still that is also a flimsy argument considering the way offside has been called for a while.

You just need to move on, we didn't make the plays to win tonight.

I don't think it's unfortunate.
It is what it is.

It would crazy to blow that puck dead before hand, and I am pretty sure you know that. Because you can't say he "attempted to play the puck."
Because since he was right there, and it was pretty clear he attempted to not play the puck, that would be a horrible call.

Anyway, AA could have impacted that play, perhaps.
Larkin could have gotten back in the play if he wasn't whining, at least enough to slash his stick.
Mrazek could have caught it.

Bertuzzi could have scored on any of his open nets.
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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I too thought the heel of his stick touched the puck before he tagged up.

That said, it wouldn't be a point of debate if:

-Bertuzzi could bury an open net chance or two
-Mrazek catches that last one or doesn't come 7 feet out of the net on the Flyers 2nd goal
-The Red Wings could figure out how to move the puck up ice or on the PP

Anywho, I thought Ericsson had a good game, and for some reason this is the first time I've noticed that he's the only Red Wing that doesn't wear a visor...
 

Redder Winger

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For Babcock, a guy like bertuzzi would be love at first sight. Does all the little things right pretty much all the time. Would like him to bury some of those chances but at least he was involved in tons of em.

Even forgetting the missed chances, tonight wasn't Bertuzzi's night. He wasn't good passing the puck or skating with it.

But I think he'll be a good top 9 player.
 

HisNoodliness

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Tough loss. I hate the Detroit special of "winning" our loser point and then immediately losing in OT. It's both frustrating for the part of me that being wants to tank and frustrating for the part that wants to win. The ultimate lose/lose.

Concerning the offsides... It's too close to call. I honestly think he was barely offsides by making contact lightly just before tagging up and actually gaining possession. But if they called that back it would be nonsense that really ignores the spirit of the rule. If you have to go into super slo-mo and zoom in on a pc to determine if something is offsides... Then we're defeating the point and should get back to playing the game. It's not like Konecny was cherry picking. Whether he ever so slightly touches the puck just before he tags up or not would make absolutely no difference on the play. Larkin should have kept playing instead of asking the ref to play for him regardless.
 
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Run the Jewels

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For Babcock, a guy like bertuzzi would be love at first sight. Does all the little things right pretty much all the time. Would like him to bury some of those chances but at least he was involved in tons of em.
Yeah lil Bert is a nice player. I’d keep him up and play him the rest of the way. Maybe get him some PP time as a net front guy. Develop him and see if he has a future role. If not trade him, he’s got value in this league and you can get something decent in return if it eventually comes down to that.
 

Run the Jewels

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Concerning the offsides... It's too close to call. I honestly think he was barely offsides by making contact lightly just before tagging up and actually gaining possession. But if they called that back it would be nonsense that really ignores the spirit of the rule. If you have to go into super slo-mo and zoom in on a pc to determine if something is offsides... Then we're defeating the point and should get back to playing the game. It's not like Konecny was cherry picking. Whether he ever so slightly touches the puck just before he tags up or not would make absolutely no difference on the play. Larkin should have kept playing instead of asking the ref to play for him regardless.
I agree it was too close to overturn. The ref had a great angle so I’m fine with sticking with his call. Replay is primarily for those occasions where the ref totally missed the call. I don’t know how anyone can seriously argue the ref clearly without question missed the call.
 
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theYman

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Feb 28, 2008
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So we lost it in OT on a controversial goal, that could've been offsides. Figures. Back home back to losing. And can't believe how bad this team is in OT 3on3.
 

turkleton85

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Dec 12, 2017
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Just watched the replay, what an exciting game. Z-Mantha-nyquist line created so many chances and looked dominant, mantha will burst out against chicago, i'm pretty sure. Looks much better in the last 3 games

Ericson is playing a very good season, not just because of the goal. I wouldn't have thought that he bounces back like that

Larkin looked a bit off, and on that last goal he looked like he quit it

The effort was great, if only the wings would have capitalized on one more of the high grade chances in the 3rd
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
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And here's another screen grab just as he knocked the puck down as you can see both skates are clearly in the white. I have to question if you know hockey.

Man.... blatantly demonstrating that you don't know the rules and then immediately questioning someone if THEY know hockey is not a good look.


No still photo will ever work. Just because two black objects are lined up, doesn't mean that they are touching. In the video, the absolute earliest he MIGHT have touched the puck, you can't be sure that his skate isn't on the blueline. You have to keep that a goal
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
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For Babcock, a guy like bertuzzi would be love at first sight. Does all the little things right pretty much all the time. Would like him to bury some of those chances but at least he was involved in tons of em.
He's quickly becoming one of my favorite players. Always just seems to know where to be. He'll hit those open nets 99/100, so I appreciate that he is in the right spot to get the opportunities
 

Dotter

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Man.... blatantly demonstrating that you don't know the rules and then immediately questioning someone if THEY know hockey is not a good look.


No still photo will ever work. Just because two black objects are lined up, doesn't mean that they are touching. In the video, the absolute earliest he MIGHT have touched the puck, you can't be sure that his skate isn't on the blueline. You have to keep that a goal

When there's 2 or 3 replays that show it's offsides, then it's offsides. I have to question other peoples hockey IQ if they don't see it. It's not a good look for you if you're even debating this after all the blatant replays that show it offside.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
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When there's 2 or 3 replays that show it's offsides, then it's offsides. I have to question other peoples hockey IQ if they don't see it. It's not a good look for you if you're even debating this after all the blatant replays that show it offside.

While you're posting screenshots of the puck and stick behind a leg or from down in the corner like it's evidence of anything, you could just look at the videos already posted

Watch at 1 minute.


1 minute mark. Play it at .25 speed at full screen. You can easily go frame by frame. There is always a gap between his stick and the puck. EVEN IF you somehow see the stick touching the puck while it's close, you can't conclusively see that his foot isn't on the line first.
 

WingedWheel1987

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The call on the ice was a good goal. Therefore in order to overturn the ruling on the ice, the refs must be presented with clear evidence demonstrating that the original call was incorrect. Since the refs cannot see through the players stick to determine whether the player had played the puck before being onside, common sense dictates that the call stands.

I personally think it was a good goal.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

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I would not debate the tag. It could be coincidence but he swings at the puck there and it goes from on edge to flat right as the heel of his stick goes by. Do I think there was a ton of contact absolutely not, ultimately you cannot tell so the call on the ice stands. I mean that is a ton of puck luck that it goes from on edge to completely flat right as he swings at it with his stick while offside. You also have the debate of he attempted to play the puck while in an offside position which should draw a whistle. Just wasn't our night unfortunately, he got his feet back assuming he didn't touch the puck and or you don't want to call him swinging at it while offside and either slightly nudging it or impacting the puck by the rules.
.
Yeah that's the moment I wonder about and not the tag up itself.

His stick gets very close to the puck as he's still moving backwards to tag up and the puck falls over. I haven't seen anything conclusive enough to see that he touched it though. And even at that moment, his skate is super close to being on the blueline so he may have been onside even if he did touch it.

Ultimately Larkin should know better than to quit on the play assuming it's an offside call.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
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While you're posting screenshots of the puck and stick behind a leg or from down in the corner like it's evidence of anything, you could just look at the videos already posted

1 minute mark. Play it at .25 speed at full screen. You can easily go frame by frame. There is always a gap between his stick and the puck. EVEN IF you somehow see the stick touching the puck while it's close, you can't conclusively see that his foot isn't on the line first.

There's different angles. The video you are showing shows the worse possible angle. But you see the puck "magically" stop before he touches the blue line. It just "magically" stops while you can kind of see black touching the puck.. maybe his skate, maybe his stick. THAT'S FROM THIS VIDEO.

The true breaker to this play is from the other camera angle you ARE NOT posting that concludes this play is, in fact, offsides. But that camera angle doesn't help your agenda, so lets not talk about it. Lets use the biggest piece of garbage video for "evidence" while totally dismissing the other camera and the fact that the puck "magically" stops before the skater touches the blueline. #screwlogic.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
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There's different angles. The video you are showing shows the worse possible angle. But you see the puck "magically" stop before he touches the blue line. It just "magically" stops while you can kind of see black touching the puck.. maybe his skate, maybe his stick. THAT'S FROM THIS VIDEO.

The true breaker to this play is from the other camera angle you ARE NOT posting that concludes this play is, in fact, offsides. But that camera angle doesn't help your agenda, so lets not talk about it. Lets use the biggest piece of garbage video for "evidence" while totally dismissing the other camera and the fact that the puck "magically" stops before the skater touches the blueline. #screwlogic.
Whaaaaat?

You post these as evidence???



Watch the million angles on NBCSN and you'll where he touched it better.




There could be 6 inches between stick and puck for all we know on either of those. It doesn't matter if you post 100 videos and pictures where it looks like they touched because one is behind the other, when you have a clear view that they didn't touch, they didn't touch




(....and the video I posted (quoted) was the best possible angle, because it would be the angle that shows a gap between stick and puck.. which it shows)
 

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