News Article: Red Wings' Mantha, Athanasiou respond to 'poke-and-hope' criticism

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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No, my bad if I gave that impression. He referenced him via calling out a specific gaff Mantha made, leaving little doubt as to who he meant.

To me, and this is my opinion and not in response to anyone, this has much to do with that "winning culture" we have been hearing so much about. I roll my eyes often when I hear it also and agree that it is a catch phrase to justify some bad contracts to veterans; but in this case, Zetterberg standing up and calling players out is a real example of that winning culture:
I don't care how many points you have, how many goals you have, how many highlights you are on how much bank you're going to make next contract - we do it this way on this team. We play to win and we don't accept short cuts or selfish plays that have a higher likelihood of hurting the team.

I mean who calls out McDavid in Edmonton? Young super star wearing the C, but I'm wagering he still has plenty to learn about winning hockey. Who calls him out when he takes a short cut? Milan Lucic? I bet they would love to have a leader like Z in that locker room, and I bet McDavid would soak it up and do what he had to do to lead his team to wins, he has that drive to be better and that desire to win. So far we know that Mantha likes goals and AA likes big contracts - I'd like to see a little more maturity and drive from both of them. And I'm not giving the vets a free pass, but honestly, I don't give two ****s if our vets are already planning their golf outings. The players that our future will be built around are the ones who concern me.

So play the kids 25 minutes a night sure sounds fun; but if they're playing a haphazard, irresponsible brand of hockey what good are all those minutes going to do them?

There is no winning culture. It's gone, dude. It was gone 5 years ago when this team stopped being a winner. We're now in year 2 of of no playoffs. Don't fall for management's nonsense. This is the same management that signed Mike Green, despite his reputation for not being a hard worker and being a defensive liability. This is the same management that signed Thomas Vanek, despite a similar reputation. So come on. Let's not pretend this team has some high standards about elite two-way play.

Making the playoffs and losing in round one didn't perpetuate "Winning Culture." Missing the playoffs two straight years doesn't scream "winning culture.

The Red Wings' winning culture was always built, first and foremost, on elite, world class skill. It was built around the idea that anything less than winning the cup was a failure. Those values disappeared.

All the try-hard platitudes about defense don't mean a f***ing thing if you don't have world-class skill.

Ken Holland and Jeff Blashill can "try-hard their way into the playoffs" all they want. What they should be working on is drafting and developing skill, first and foremost. If you can do that, you teach a player to be a better defensive player. Stevie Yzerman was here a dozen years before he started taking defense seriously. So when I think about Mantha and Athanasiou and any young guy not being dedicated to defense, sure, I tuck it away and say, these guys need to work on that. But first and foremost, we need to develop their offensive skill.

Any no-name plug can play defense. It's why I can still play hockey and compete with people 25 years younger than me. You work hard, you play smart, and you can stop most everyone.

So when you see someone flashing real, genuine offensive skill, developing that is priority number one.

Judging by last year's draft, I'm not sure this organization values skill much anymore.
Judging by the way this coach plays his guys, I don't think the coach does either.
 
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TheRatPoisoner

Registered User
Feb 23, 2015
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No, my bad if I gave that impression. He referenced him via calling out a specific gaff Mantha made, leaving little doubt as to who he meant.

To me, and this is my opinion and not in response to anyone, this has much to do with that "winning culture"

Certainly part of it.

At an even more basic level he knows that defence wins hockey games, and appears a little annoyed that not everyone seems to understand that.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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How else could you interpret "a lot of guys playing poke and hope hockey"?

It's both dude. Get over it.

That's a guy talking in generalities... like the proverbial we.

Sure, at times during his screed, he was probably going back and forth, between Mantha and commenting in generalities.
But you know, without a shadow of a doubt, he was talking about Mantha.
Too many clues to ignore.

More specifically, the way he referenced it. You could tell, in particular, which play and player he was alluding to.
 

Nut Upstrom

You dirty dog!
Dec 18, 2010
3,206
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There is no winning culture. It's gone, dude. It was gone 5 years ago when this team stopped being a winner. We're now in year 2 of of no playoffs. Don't fall for management's nonsense. This is the same management that signed Mike Green, despite his reputation for not being a hard worker and being a defensive liability. This is the same management that signed Thomas Vanek, despite a similar reputation. So come on. Let's not pretend this team has some high standards about elite two-way play.

Making the playoffs and losing in round one didn't perpetuate "Winning Culture." Missing the playoffs two straight years doesn't scream "winning culture.

The Red Wings' winning culture was always built, first and foremost, on elite, world class skill. It was built around the idea that anything less than winning the cup was a failure. Those values disappeared.

All the try-hard platitudes about defense don't mean a ****ing thing if you don't have world-class skill.

Ken Holland and Jeff Blashill can "try-hard their way into the playoffs" all they want. What they should be working on is drafting and developing skill, first and foremost. If you can do that, you teach a player to be a better defensive player. Stevie Yzerman was here a dozen years before he started taking defense seriously. So when I think about Mantha and Athanasiou and any young guy not being dedicated to defense, sure, I tuck it away and say, these guys need to work on that. But first and foremost, we need to develop their offensive skill.

Any no-name plug can play defense. It's why I can still play hockey and compete with people 25 years younger than me. You work hard, you play smart, and you can stop most everyone.

So when you see someone flashing real, genuine offensive skill, developing that is priority number one.

Judging by last year's draft, I'm not sure this organization values skill much anymore.
Judging by the way this coach plays his guys, I don't think the coach does either.

Are you purposely being daft? You list all of these examples of what the team is doing that is NOT a winning culture; things that I never mentioned nor sited as examples of our winning culture and you chose to ignore the one, the only single example I gave of our winning culture. You're repeating a maddening circle of posts without responding to the specifics of what anyone is saying. That's cool if you want to recycle the same posts, but why quote me and then ignore the things I've said?
And sure, any no name plug can play defense, but when you get a talented, high speed, high energy kid to buy into playing a full game, then you've got something special. Can our kids become that? I hope so, because ignoring that part of their game to pad their offensive stats sure wont build us that winning culture.

So, to put it simply for you:
Making the playoffs and losing in round one is not building a winning culture. I agree with you and I never claimed that it was.
Missing the playoffs two straight years is not building a winning culture. I agree with you and I never claimed that it was.
Our veterans insisting that sloppy, lazy plays that lead to losses get called out and corrected, however, that does help foster a winning culture. With everything else going south for this team this season, I am glad that something like this, something that our players do have some control over, is being taken care of by a respected and responsible leader - and I don't care if it upsets you or the young players, I hope they have thicker skin than you do.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Not that Larkin, Frk, Svech, Bertuzzi or Athanasiou were good that game, but Mantha was guilty of "poke and hope" on that third goal.
He was guilty of the turnover on goal 2.
No other young guy was blatantly and obviously to blame for a goal again.
Pretty clear that while he was using general words, he was speaking to specific plays by a specific player.

AA and Svech weren't good on the fourth goal.

DeKeyser likewise was brutal. But both of those young guys didn't have a good sequence. Svech was because he over did it and ran himself out of position. AA didn't seem like he could be bothered at that point. That wasn't just lobbed at Mantha. It was meant for Mantha, AA and Larkin. That was really the interesting thing when he was clarifying it he pointed back to the overtime that Mantha and Larkin blew the game before on a hope play.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Are you purposely being daft? You list all of these examples of what the team is doing that is NOT a winning culture; things that I never mentioned nor sited as examples of our winning culture and you chose to ignore the one, the only single example I gave of our winning culture. You're repeating a maddening circle of posts without responding to the specifics of what anyone is saying. That's cool if you want to recycle the same posts, but why quote me and then ignore the things I've said?
And sure, any no name plug can play defense, but when you get a talented, high speed, high energy kid to buy into playing a full game, then you've got something special. Can our kids become that? I hope so, because ignoring that part of their game to pad their offensive stats sure wont build us that winning culture.

So, to put it simply for you:
Making the playoffs and losing in round one is not building a winning culture. I agree with you and I never claimed that it was.
Missing the playoffs two straight years is not building a winning culture. I agree with you and I never claimed that it was.
Our veterans insisting that sloppy, lazy plays that lead to losses get called out and corrected, however, that does help foster a winning culture. With everything else going south for this team this season, I am glad that something like this, something that our players do have some control over, is being taken care of by a respected and responsible leader - and I don't care if it upsets you or the young players, I hope they have thicker skin than you do.

Yes and Kronwall and Abdelkader went after the team as a whole. It is actually exactly what your leadership group should do. The ultimate leader gave the youngsters tough love and they should respect anything that Zetterberg says. Kronwall and Abdelkader backed up that the play wasn't good enough and it wasn't good enough by the older guys either in their statements. Kronwall laid into his own play not that I expect people to care but he owned it as well.

It is going to be a tough March. But honestly I thought the guys that wear letters did what they were supposed to do after that pathetic effort. I hope we can rebound quickly but having a HHOF tell the kids it wasn't good enough isn't a bad thing. If they don't want to listen to what Z said then I don't expect any of them are going to become what we hope.

Also for the record in terms of another one of your posts, McDavid isn't the problem in Edmonton. He isn't taking short cuts, the team around him has been incredibly poor but he has still been great night in and night out. I watch a lot of the Oilers on center ice just to watch him play and he hasn't disappointed and does make winning hockey plays consistently. They have a lot of other problems holding him down in Edmonton, but he is a guy that is playing the right way. Larkin has for most of the year, interesting that Mickey included him in who this was directed at, I have no reason not to believe Mickey over the last several years, what he has shared has been accurate information consistently.
 
Last edited:

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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AA and Svech weren't good on the fourth goal.

DeKeyser likewise was brutal. But both of those young guys didn't have a good sequence. Svech was because he over did it and ran himself out of position. AA didn't seem like he could be bothered at that point. That wasn't just lobbed at Mantha. It was meant for Mantha, AA and Larkin. That was really the interesting thing when he was clarifying it he pointed back to the overtime that Mantha and Larkin blew the game before on a hope play.

AA went in there to battle for the puck and he lost the battle.
I don't know how one could believe "he looked like he couldn't be bothered."
He was second to the puck after Dekeyser's mistake.
And after that it's a scramble.

On the scramble, any number of players could have stopped it. Most notably, Jensen was watch Tuch when Tuch spun around and whipped the shot on goal.
The puck comes right back to him, but Jensen abandons coverage - maybe thinking that Abdelkader will cover him.

So with all due respect, blaming AA for goal 4 is bullshit.
Saying like he look like he can't be bothered is bias. His only mistake was too easily allowing that puck to get ouf the corner after Dekeyser coughed it up. But the other guy was closer, had body position and made the play.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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Are you purposely being daft? You list all of these examples of what the team is doing that is NOT a winning culture; things that I never mentioned nor sited as examples of our winning culture and you chose to ignore the one, the only single example I gave of our winning culture. You're repeating a maddening circle of posts without responding to the specifics of what anyone is saying. That's cool if you want to recycle the same posts, but why quote me and then ignore the things I've said?
And sure, any no name plug can play defense, but when you get a talented, high speed, high energy kid to buy into playing a full game, then you've got something special. Can our kids become that? I hope so, because ignoring that part of their game to pad their offensive stats sure wont build us that winning culture.

So, to put it simply for you:
Making the playoffs and losing in round one is not building a winning culture. I agree with you and I never claimed that it was.
Missing the playoffs two straight years is not building a winning culture. I agree with you and I never claimed that it was.
Our veterans insisting that sloppy, lazy plays that lead to losses get called out and corrected, however, that does help foster a winning culture. With everything else going south for this team this season, I am glad that something like this, something that our players do have some control over, is being taken care of by a respected and responsible leader - and I don't care if it upsets you or the young players, I hope they have thicker skin than you do.

More insults.
You can't help yourself.
So I won't bother replying.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
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Yes and Kronwall and Abdelkader went after the team as a whole. It is actually exactly what your leadership group should do. The ultimate leader gave the youngsters tough love and they should respect anything that Zetterberg says. Kronwall and Abdelkader backed up that the play wasn't good enough and it wasn't good enough by the older guys either in their statements. Kronwall laid into his own play not that I expect people to care but he owned it as well.

It is going to be a tough March. But honestly I thought the guys that wear letters did what they were supposed to do after that pathetic effort. I hope we can rebound quickly but having a HHOF tell the kids it wasn't good enough isn't a bad thing. If they don't want to listen to what Z said then I don't expect any of them are going to become what we hope.

Also for the record in terms of another one of your posts, McDavid isn't the problem in Edmonton. He isn't taking short cuts, the team around him has been incredibly poor but he has still been great night in and night out. I watch a lot of the Oilers on center ice just to watch him play and he hasn't disappointed and does make winning hockey plays consistently. They have a lot of other problems holding him down in Edmonton, but he is a guy that is playing the right way. Larkin has for most of the year, interesting that Mickey included him in who this was directed at, I have no reason not to believe Mickey over the last several years, what he has shared has been accurate information consistently.

Kronwall, Abdelkader and Blashill's statements were much more general.
No question.
Z's comments were obviously much more specific.
And honestly, some of the comments from the other guys were responses evoked because the media was asking questions based on Z's comments.
 

Claypool

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Jan 12, 2009
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People complaining about a bad team being bad. Isn't this what ya'll wanted?
 
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The Zetterberg Era

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AA went in there to battle for the puck and he lost the battle.
I don't know how one could believe "he looked like he couldn't be bothered."
He was second to the puck after Dekeyser's mistake.
And after that it's a scramble.

On the scramble, any number of players could have stopped it. Most notably, Jensen was watch Tuch when Tuch spun around and whipped the shot on goal.
The puck comes right back to him, but Jensen abandons coverage - maybe thinking that Abdelkader will cover him.

So with all due respect, blaming AA for goal 4 is bull****.
Saying like he look like he can't be bothered is bias. His only mistake was too easily allowing that puck to get ouf the corner after Dekeyser coughed it up. But the other guy was closer, had body position and made the play.

You can absolve him all you want. The bias here is you consistently have nothing but praise for Athanasiou. Even when he isn't playing well it seems he should be spoon feed minutes and everyone on the ice is also in on whatever mistake happens. It is fine, I have players I like a lot too. But my problem with AA's game and compete level don't come from bias, they come from his inconsistent efforts.

On a few occasions this year AA has himself owned them even while you defended them as unsubstantiated problems.

For the record AA had by far the best response of the younger guys. Good on him, I thought he was excellent last night for most of the game. He took what was said and he did a lot better job competing for pucks and trying to do the right plays. He still got poke-checked quite a few times last night, but he was a lot more engaged and I love when AA plays that way.

This is a big month for the young guys. It is going to be a tough month, how they respond should tell us a lot about them. Big credit to AA last night, he bounced back after the poor Vegas game.
 

SoupGuru

Registered User
May 12, 2007
18,542
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Here's the way I look at it. Let's say 5 years from now we're a decent team again making a push for the playoffs. AA and Mantha only make a visible effort when the puck is on their stick, otherwise they're floating around and blowing their coverage. Yay. Wish that would have been dealt with when they were coming into the league because now it's a lot harder to change that behavior.

I don't want those guys playing like this 5 years from now. How are they going to learn not to do that without some lessons on the way?
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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There is no winning culture. It's gone, dude. It was gone 5 years ago when this team stopped being a winner. We're now in year 2 of of no playoffs. Don't fall for management's nonsense. This is the same management that signed Mike Green, despite his reputation for not being a hard worker and being a defensive liability. This is the same management that signed Thomas Vanek, despite a similar reputation. So come on. Let's not pretend this team has some high standards about elite two-way play.

Making the playoffs and losing in round one didn't perpetuate "Winning Culture." Missing the playoffs two straight years doesn't scream "winning culture.

The Red Wings' winning culture was always built, first and foremost, on elite, world class skill. It was built around the idea that anything less than winning the cup was a failure. Those values disappeared.

All the try-hard platitudes about defense don't mean a ****ing thing if you don't have world-class skill.

Ken Holland and Jeff Blashill can "try-hard their way into the playoffs" all they want. What they should be working on is drafting and developing skill, first and foremost. If you can do that, you teach a player to be a better defensive player. Stevie Yzerman was here a dozen years before he started taking defense seriously. So when I think about Mantha and Athanasiou and any young guy not being dedicated to defense, sure, I tuck it away and say, these guys need to work on that. But first and foremost, we need to develop their offensive skill.

Any no-name plug can play defense. It's why I can still play hockey and compete with people 25 years younger than me. You work hard, you play smart, and you can stop most everyone.

So when you see someone flashing real, genuine offensive skill, developing that is priority number one.

Judging by last year's draft, I'm not sure this organization values skill much anymore.
Judging by the way this coach plays his guys, I don't think the coach does either.

The Wings culture was not built on skill. Their success was, definitely, but their culture was built on guys like Steve Yzerman dropping down to block a shot at the behest of Scotty Bowman. Guys like McCarty, Draper, and Maltby being treated as being just as vital to the team as Sergei Fedorov. That a guy like Pavel Datsyuk isn't only skilled, but he'll drop the gloves with Corey Perry to protect himself. That the entire roster jumped immediately to Kris Draper's defense after a cheap shot. A team's culture is based on how the guys play. On how they use the talent they have.

Frankly, success or failure in the regular season or playoffs has **** all to do with a winning culture. Did the Wings have a winning culture in 1993-94 when they got drummed out by the expansion Sharks? How about when they get swept by Anaheim and LA in the early 2000s? How about the mid-80s until Bowman got there? If they didn't run headlong into the steamroller that was the Edmonton Oilers, they could have played for the Cup in back to back years in 86-87 and 87-88.

Culture is about your best players being willing to sell out on the ice to help their teammates. It's why a woefully undertalented Detroit team hasn't sunk to the bottom of the standings like they probably should be and why the 2013-14 Wings played their way into the playoffs sans their top 3 Cs.

And no, you don't need to "refine their offensive skill". You need to develop them to be better hockey players. You need to teach them how to give a full out effort every game. The draft does need to bring in players with some more talent. I cannot argue that point.
 
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Redder Winger

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The bias here is you consistently have nothing but praise for Athanasiou..

I've criticized AA quite a bit. I'm tired of him waving his sticks at guys instead of driving through and finishing a hit. I've criticized his passing ability.

I've pointed to low hit totals and somewhat low hits taken totals as examples of him not being physically engaged as he should be.

But that doesn't mean he shouldn't play more. These team looks good when he plays more.

The best games this team had all year year are the games when he's played most.
The 8-2 win over Calgary. The 4-0 game over Chicago.
When you sort AA's game log by TOI, something hits you really quick.

His top 5 games in ice time are all Red Wings victories. Coincidence? Maybe.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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730
The Wings culture was not built on skill. Their success was, definitely, but their culture was built on guys like Steve Yzerman dropping down to block a shot at the behest of Scotty Bowman. Guys like McCarty, Draper, and Maltby being treated as being just as vital to the team as Sergei Fedorov. That a guy like Pavel Datsyuk isn't only skilled, but he'll drop the gloves with Corey Perry to protect himself. That the entire roster jumped immediately to Kris Draper's defense after a cheap shot. A team's culture is based on how the guys play. On how they use the talent they have.

Frankly, success or failure in the regular season or playoffs has **** all to do with a winning culture. Did the Wings have a winning culture in 1993-94 when they got drummed out by the expansion Sharks? How about when they get swept by Anaheim and LA in the early 2000s? How about the mid-80s until Bowman got there? If they didn't run headlong into the steamroller that was the Edmonton Oilers, they could have played for the Cup in back to back years in 86-87 and 87-88.

Culture is about your best players being willing to sell out on the ice to help their teammates. It's why a woefully undertalented Detroit team hasn't sunk to the bottom of the standings like they probably should be and why the 2013-14 Wings played their way into the playoffs sans their top 3 Cs.

And no, you don't need to "refine their offensive skill". You need to develop them to be better hockey players. You need to teach them how to give a full out effort every game. The draft does need to bring in players with some more talent. I cannot argue that point.


Yeah, right.
Russian 5.
Yzerman.
Shanahan
Lidstrom.
Hull.
Robitaille.
Zetterberg
Rafalski.
Datsyuk.

Puck possession - in real terms - not in silly CF stats -- is Red Wings hockey. Mixed in with toughness (pre-cap, anyway) and commitment to two way hockey.



How many guys were well on their way to Hall of Fame careers before they won a cup in Detroit?
 

Nut Upstrom

You dirty dog!
Dec 18, 2010
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Yes and Kronwall and Abdelkader went after the team as a whole. It is actually exactly what your leadership group should do. The ultimate leader gave the youngsters tough love and they should respect anything that Zetterberg says. Kronwall and Abdelkader backed up that the play wasn't good enough and it wasn't good enough by the older guys either in their statements. Kronwall laid into his own play not that I expect people to care but he owned it as well.

It is going to be a tough March. But honestly I thought the guys that wear letters did what they were supposed to do after that pathetic effort. I hope we can rebound quickly but having a HHOF tell the kids it wasn't good enough isn't a bad thing. If they don't want to listen to what Z said then I don't expect any of them are going to become what we hope.

Also for the record in terms of another one of your posts, McDavid isn't the problem in Edmonton. He isn't taking short cuts, the team around him has been incredibly poor but he has still been great night in and night out. I watch a lot of the Oilers on center ice just to watch him play and he hasn't disappointed and does make winning hockey plays consistently. They have a lot of other problems holding him down in Edmonton, but he is a guy that is playing the right way. Larkin has for most of the year, interesting that Mickey included him in who this was directed at, I have no reason not to believe Mickey over the last several years, what he has shared has been accurate information consistently.

No, no, I don't think McDavid is the problem in Edmonton, I was just using Edmonton as an example and replacing our youngsters with McDavid in that example. I try to watch Edmonton games also when I'm up late and I do believe that a lack of leadership is a problem with that team, but I agree with you about McDavid, he really doesn't need to be led and he seems to be a good leader himself because he tries to play the right way and never lacks for effort and drive. But, if he did lapse for a short spell, I believe he would absorb being called out by a Zetterberg type and make him all the more determined to do things the right way from that point forward. I'm hoping our youngsters have that drive somewhere within themselves.
 

datsyukfan

Registered User
Jul 5, 2007
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It would make a lot of sense if we weren't in a week where the captain and coach said don't play the game that way.

That isn't his system is the point... I know it is a fun narrative. But when the Captain tells you some guys aren't learning and they aren't playing the right way it isn't a mistake. They aren't playing the system, they are cheating for offense too often.

He specifically said they need to learn not to play that way, Blashill said not to play that way it isn't winning hockey. The young guys getting grilled for it said they hadn't played the way they were supposed to. Yeah no but that is the plan...

These kids have a long ways to go is the reality in my opinion.
Easier to be angry at Blashill I guess.

giphy.gif
Then why does the whole team play this system?
 

BinCookin

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Feb 15, 2012
6,160
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London, ON
There is no winning culture. It's gone, dude. It was gone 5 years ago when this team stopped being a winner.

You know "winning culture" has a meaning right? It means this;

Hard Work
Skate Hard
throw hits
keep your feet moving
Defense First
or
"Play the right way"

Zetterberg knows HOW to do that... But hes getting old.

AA COULD play this way, but if he doesn't Z notices, and Blashill notices... and his ice time is reduced.

Everyone is not an idiot and deserves to be fired....
Its possible that some of our young players need to play "the right way" to earn more icetime.
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
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It's also very possible that our young players aren't very good and we're wasting a lot of energy complaining about more redundant role players who won't get this team anywhere.

I don't see any way that AA or Mantha are answers to any questions this team has.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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730
You know "winning culture" has a meaning right? It means this;

Hard Work
Skate Hard
throw hits
keep your feet moving
Defense First
or
"Play the right way"

Zetterberg knows HOW to do that... But hes getting old.

AA COULD play this way, but if he doesn't Z notices, and Blashill notices... and his ice time is reduced.

Everyone is not an idiot and deserves to be fired....
Its possible that some of our young players need to play "the right way" to earn more icetime.

Blashill is an idiot and needs to be fired.

When the Red Wings talk about "winning culture," they're not talking about only playing the right way.
They're talking about a culture that was alive in hockeytown for 22-23 years.
When winning was expected.
When you were expected to produce for a Stanley cup competitor

Not your garden variety bullshit that any coach on any team in the league will spew when he can't concoct a f***ing gameplan.
 

BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
6,160
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London, ON
It's also very possible that our young players aren't very good and we're wasting a lot of energy complaining about more redundant role players who won't get this team anywhere.

I don't see any way that AA or Mantha are answers to any questions this team has.

Also highly possible. But lets say we draft: Bilbo Baggins.

And Bilbo has all the talent in the world, and he looks around at his teammates.

I think we would hope to assemble a team of "hard workers" to teach Bilbo to work hard. Not reward slackers. Yes it will take a few years of more high picks. But I can say this: If some of our players are going to play "the wrong way"... then i say trade them for people who will try harder.
 
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