Goalie guy
Registered User
Until coaching changes come nothing is going to change! At this point he might have hurt the kids enough that they never really pan out at all.
News Article: Red Wings' Mantha, Athanasiou respond to 'poke-and-hope' criticism
- Thread starter TheMule93
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kliq
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- Dec 17, 2017
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Well, to be fair Z didn’t call out anybody by name. What the media say is meaningless.
Henkka
Registered User
So Z does Kenny and Blashill’s bidding in continuing attacks on Mantha and AA. You think you’d hear this crap from the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings? Or guys like Toews or Crosby? No way.
And in a 4-0 game Z has the balls (he didn’t score that night or the next) to gripe about teammates. The culture in Detroit has become poisonous. Attack two of the three scoring leaders for their defensive play while watching old overpaid washed up guys do nothing, or worse.
The only way the culture changes is getting rid of big mouth Blashill and the real culprit who signed all his buddies to fat contracts, Kenny himself. The empty seats at the PizzaPalace will get worse soon: they’ll be empty and unpaid for when no one wants to see this Shitshow.
So keep telling Z to publicly trash the Canadian boys. And see where that gets the organization. It makes him look pretty small too. If he’s got something to say be a man and tell them to their faces. And then go out himself and score. If you’re going to run your mouth to the press you better be able to back it up.
Well, I think Zetterberg can point to his Conn Smythe and Stanley Cups to back it up. Things the "kids" will never come close to sniffing.
Could he have gone about it differently? Sure, do it behind closed doors.
Could he have gone about it differently? Sure, do it behind closed doors.
You’re part about speed and stretching is the biggest problem with this team. Guys blow the zone and there’s no puck support anywhere. Even if we somehow find a way to get the puck all the way up by their blue line there d-men is right there and pokes it away
AA didn't **** the bed like Mantha last night.
He's probably thing, "What the ****? I even get thrown under the bus when other guys suck."
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Total disrespect towards Mr.Mantha. Especially after the game he had the night before. I would have thought after a difficult night the team would have taken a different approach and protect him by showing some of his highlight goals. Poke and Hope is 50-50 hockey...well I don't think the Wings are playing .500 hockey when looking at the standings. I would have figured with all those players that know how to compete hard to go along with their cap team salaries they could provide a few playoff games as a courtesy to the fans and team owners.
He's probably thing, "What the ****? I even get thrown under the bus when other guys suck."
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Total disrespect towards Mr.Mantha. Especially after the game he had the night before. I would have thought after a difficult night the team would have taken a different approach and protect him by showing some of his highlight goals. Poke and Hope is 50-50 hockey...well I don't think the Wings are playing .500 hockey when looking at the standings. I would have figured with all those players that know how to compete hard to go along with their cap team salaries they could provide a few playoff games as a courtesy to the fans and team owners.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
"poke and hope" totally sounds like Ken Holland's strategy during free agency.
Redder Winger
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Larkin has one goal in his last 22 gamees.
1-10-11 -8
AA, after a disastrous stretch (1 assist in 11 games), is starting to score again.
In his last 10 he's 4-3-7 +2
Other young kids.
Marty Frk
29 games 3-5-8 -4
or
10 games 1-0-1 -4
After a hot start, Bertuzzi hasn't been very good
21 games 0-6-6 -12
He's scoreless in 2, but had been turning it up
6 games 0-4-4 -1
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
It sounds like even the captain is tired of that freelancing and that it isn't the directive on how to play the game...
Yup, I am sure that is the plan however, you had the leader on the team say publicly stop blowing the zone and start playing the game in particular the team game but people around here are going to keep chalking up the way the young kids only want to blow the zone and play chip hockey as Blashill's idea. Okay then. Blashill wants to play fast transition hockey, the D isn't really capable and the kids don't seem interested in making sure there is a solid play to be had before looking for offense. Hey it is why we are a bad team. Blash should try playing a different system I guess, but playing with pace is the NHL these days. I don't think we can sit back, that was his adjustment the first year, I think he knows we are going to get destroyed in a similar way playing bunker hockey.
The team is really bad, there isn't a coaching solution for a bunch of guys seemingly on their own page. Blashill should go, he has to get guys to buy in and believe, but the next guy isn't going to look at this universally different without more change from the players. If these guys don't want to earn minutes and play more consistently Scotty Bowman isn't turning this thing around.
They don't have the talent for puck possession or the defense that can move the puck AND make up for the offenses lack of defense for the stretch game.
So they're stuck in hockey purgatory right now
So they're stuck in hockey purgatory right now
I’m not saying we would be good because I think no matter what way we play we just are devoid of talent but it is apparent that it is blashill’s system to stretch and blow the zone, you can tell because when the d get the puck they don’t even look they just throw it up the boards and hope it gets to the guy it’s embartassing. If they committed to having everyone back and making 5-10 foot passes I honestly believe we would be a lot better, we may not win but we would at least have possession and make some plays to help the entertainment value. You can even tell because when our d turn the puck over it’s a guaranteed high quality chance because at least 2 forward are already out of the zone. If we had good support a lot of the turnovers could be made up for because we are closer to the guy and have the ability to recover. I just hate the system he plays. If we get a chance it’s usually a lucky hope play. It’s not developing anyone or helping anyone. You can even tell with guys like green, Kronwall, Daley they make like zero tape to tape passes. I know there not great d-men but I also know they have enough skill and iq to make a nice 10 foot passes but in this system that’s never an option
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
It would make a lot of sense if we weren't in a week where the captain and coach said don't play the game that way.
That isn't his system is the point... I know it is a fun narrative. But when the Captain tells you some guys aren't learning and they aren't playing the right way it isn't a mistake. They aren't playing the system, they are cheating for offense too often.
He specifically said they need to learn not to play that way, Blashill said not to play that way it isn't winning hockey. The young guys getting grilled for it said they hadn't played the way they were supposed to. Yeah no but that is the plan...
These kids have a long ways to go is the reality in my opinion.
Easier to be angry at Blashill I guess.
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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If your team can’t execute your system, tweak your system.
Babcock did, he went from having a stacked d core to a trash d core and he made guys look better than they were still. Good coaches do that. If you are that rigid to where you can only run 1 thing and you need a stacked team to pull it off you then you just aren’t a good coach.
Babcock did, he went from having a stacked d core to a trash d core and he made guys look better than they were still. Good coaches do that. If you are that rigid to where you can only run 1 thing and you need a stacked team to pull it off you then you just aren’t a good coach.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
He did that his first year and we endured he is Mike Babcock stuff. I don't think we can play bunker hockey and survive is the assessment.
I don't think he wants to bench nor is he truly allowed to bench the young core of the team freelancing and not playing his system. It is a tough spot, I don't envy him. But this team does stuff that fundamentally is ridiculous at times. People posting things like Mike Green line change that is Blashills fault in game... I mean that is a change a peewee hockey player is taught not to do. The floating Mantha was doing that got crushed here wouldn't be endorsed by any level coach. He still gave him 17 minutes that evening. I am not sure what he can do, we are a bad team. We cannot hope to sit back and absorb pressure, we have to get through the learning experience of this. But it isn't going to be fun. I think the next guy is up against it as well.
Redder Winger
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Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
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1). If the Penguins or Hawks or any team has a frustrating lack of talent? Absolutely.
2) Zetterberg has the balls? He’s the ****ing Captain. It’s his ****ing job to be a leader. He doesn’t have to score a goal or get an assist to try to prod his teammates to play the game the right way. People need to get this crap out of their heads that a player has to score to have a voice. Or that if they score a goal they are somehow beyond reproach.
3). Zetterberg didn’t say AA or Mantha. The media did. Zetterberg said that the team as a whole is doing it. The media has seen that AA and Mantha are doing it and ascribed the comments to those two.
Fan bases get toxic when a team is undertalented. Baseless garbage like this takes hold and all reasonable discourse goes out the window.
Naw, he referenced the "young guys" in the post game interview. Two risky plays by Mantha lead to two goals. He was pretty clearly talking about Mantha at the very least.
Don't necessarily disagree with point two you made though.
Redder Winger
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Not that Larkin, Frk, Svech, Bertuzzi or Athanasiou were good that game, but Mantha was guilty of "poke and hope" on that third goal.
He was guilty of the turnover on goal 2.
No other young guy was blatantly and obviously to blame for a goal again.
Pretty clear that while he was using general words, he was speaking to specific plays by a specific player.
He was guilty of the turnover on goal 2.
No other young guy was blatantly and obviously to blame for a goal again.
Pretty clear that while he was using general words, he was speaking to specific plays by a specific player.
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
He referenced Mantha - deservedly so. He called out the team, particularly those who were half-assing it. I'm not sure why this is such an issue. I like our captain holding our players accountable. And yes, I'm sure the veterans who gave less than an honest effort know who they are and know they were not exempt from his criticism.
Silly how so many are calling for Z to stop picking on Mantha! Anthony needs a kick in the pants. I mean this isn't a one or two game problem the team has on its hands. It's important to get Mantha invested 100% game to game for the long term success of the team and his career; if Hank calling him out makes him pause to think about that, great. If it hurts his feelings and he withdraws into more lazy play, then that is hardly on Zetterberg.
It's a tough sport and being mentally fragile and lazy on the ice doesn't make for a great player. I don't care what Hank's recent numbers are or how many goals he hasn't scored for the team, the guy has a long track record of playing hockey the right way and reaping the benefits of his talent and his effort, if our young kids are too stubborn, spoiled or stupid to learn from him and listen when he has something to say, then maybe we need to keep drafting for more character guys.
The kids have said the right thing in response to Z's words, let's hope they take their own words to heart and we start seeing an honest effort on the ice, goals and assists be damned.
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
Why do you keep repeating this? We all know this. Yes, he referenced Mantha quite obviously without saying his name.
But he did not stop at Mantha, the team got called out and the players know who they are - if they don't I'm sure the others in the locker room let them know who they are.
Oh, he referenced him by name? Was yesterday since I watched the so I'm probably not recalling it all that accurately. Either way, yeah, this is not something that's made up by the media. He's calling folks out here who aren't being defensively responsible.
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Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
No, my bad if I gave that impression. He referenced him via calling out a specific gaff Mantha made, leaving little doubt as to who he meant.
To me, and this is my opinion and not in response to anyone, this has much to do with that "winning culture" we have been hearing so much about. I roll my eyes often when I hear it also and agree that it is a catch phrase to justify some bad contracts to veterans; but in this case, Zetterberg standing up and calling players out is a real example of that winning culture:
I don't care how many points you have, how many goals you have, how many highlights you are on how much bank you're going to make next contract - we do it this way on this team. We play to win and we don't accept short cuts or selfish plays that have a higher likelihood of hurting the team.
I mean who calls out McDavid in Edmonton? Young super star wearing the C, but I'm wagering he still has plenty to learn about winning hockey. Who calls him out when he takes a short cut? Milan Lucic? I bet they would love to have a leader like Z in that locker room, and I bet McDavid would soak it up and do what he had to do to lead his team to wins, he has that drive to be better and that desire to win. So far we know that Mantha likes goals and AA likes big contracts - I'd like to see a little more maturity and drive from both of them. And I'm not giving the vets a free pass, but honestly, I don't give two shits if our vets are already planning their golf outings. The players that our future will be built around are the ones who concern me.
So play the kids 25 minutes a night sure sounds fun; but if they're playing a haphazard, irresponsible brand of hockey what good are all those minutes going to do them?
Redder Winger
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Because nobody else on the team quite obviously fit the bill.
Quit acting like my way of interpreting is comments is somehow any worse than yours.
HSJ - she interprets it was directed at AA and Mantha
FSD - Interprets it was directed at AA, Mantha, Larkin and perhaps some of the other kids.
Others, including people in this forum and I, were pretty convinced it was directed at Mantha.
How else could you interpret "a lot of guys playing poke and hope hockey"?
It's both dude. Get over it.
