Red Wings between now and New Years.

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
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Boston is a decent example.
But they got Zdeno Chara in UFA. When was the last time you saw a Norris trophy caliber D hit free agency? They also hit jackpot with an unheralded UFA goalie.
They also drafted Kessel with a lottery pick and traded him away for Seguin.

Los Angeles had 6 straight years picking 11th or better including 3 straight in the top 5.

The Rangers just had their second top 10 pick since Montoya in 04. (McIlrath was the other). A lot of their success is due to Lundqvist, obviously.

Every team gets lucky, some day people will say. Don’t emulate Detroit they got so and so in a trade for peanuts.

It’s about what they mostly do.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,753
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Cleveland
I find it dangerous to look at Chicago and Pittsburgh as examples to replicate. Chicago added Scotty Bowman and Quenneville, got lucky/good with Keith at the same time as they landed Toews and Kane at the top of the draft along with Seabrook. Pittsburgh got super-extra-mega lucky with the lottery/lockout in order to add both Crosby and Malkin along with Fleury and Staal, and also managed to snag a #1D later in the draft. There was also a coaching change involved in their turnaround, with Therrien obviously being a fairly competent coach compared to Olzcyk.

Like it or not, it's hard to on purpose do what other teams managed with healthy doses of luck and timing.

you're glossing over the common denominator a bit there, though, with both teams drafting high. There's luck in everything, but you still stand a better chance if you play the odds well.

I think rebuilding the team should be less about replicating any one team and more about just acknowledging that we're not cup contenders in any shape or form, and only playoff contenders under very generous circumstances. This isn't to say we need to strip the house of assets and burn everything to the ground, but quit signing guys like Daley for a bit, put the guys like XO, Jensen, Russo, and McIlrath out to sink or swim for a year or two, and accept the price for 25 years of excellence.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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Every team gets lucky, some day people will say. Don’t emulate Detroit they got so and so in a trade for peanuts.

It’s about what they mostly do.

So what's your plan Bruce?
Go for broke?
Sign and play 33 year old veterans while benching the kids and hope you finish 8th in the conference? And hope your picks in the 14-20 range are good enough?

That's your plan for getting back to the finals one day?

if the Wings finish 29th, they should pick no worse than 6th or 7th at worst right.

That's a hell of a lot better than 14th or 20th.

And that's if they don't finish in the lottery.
 

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
15,916
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So what's your plan Bruce?
Go for broke?
Sign and play 33 year old veterans while benching the kids and hope you finish 8th in the conference? And hope your picks in the 14-20 range are good enough?

That's your plan for getting back to the finals one day?

if the Wings finish 29th, they should pick no worse than 6th or 7th at worst right.

That's a hell of a lot better than 14th or 20th.

And that's if they don't finish in the lottery.

I’m in the tank camp I want the team to play hard but lose for higher picks at the moment

We need to get a 1d like a 1 qb. Trade the whole farm for one (besides center). You can get almost everything filled out later in the draft/free agency. Trades are way easier.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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I’m in the tank camp I want the team to play hard but lose for higher picks at the moment

We need to get a 1d like a 1 qb. Trade the whole farm for one (besides center). You can get almost everything filled out later in the draft/free agency. Trades are way easier.

That's where I am..
That's where I've been for about 2-3 years now.

For awhile, I believed that rebuild-on-the-fly was possible, going back to 2010-2013. Maybe it could have worked. But probably not, because the Wings just didn't draft or develop the talent.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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This isn't to say we need to strip the house of assets and burn everything to the ground, but quit signing guys like Daley for a bit, put the guys like XO, Jensen, Russo, and McIlrath out to sink or swim for a year or two, and accept the price for 25 years of excellence.
Yeah our excellent D is really keeping this team afloat right now.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,753
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Cleveland
By suggesting throwing Russo and McIlrath out there would be letting them "sink or swim" you're implying there's actually some kind of buoyancy in our current D.
'
There's buoyancy if the young players play well, there isn't if they don't.

edit: that's different from saying our blueline is keeping us afloat right now.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
This is exactly what the team should be doing, even if its only doing it because they are so incompetent that it just happened; They are being lead by their youth. And right now that youth is ranges from replacement level to good, maybe great but not elite or generational. As such that team isn't going to go far. Its going to be a bottom 10 team. It also is showing that rebuild on the fly is untenable. This is actually something I've been looking forward to, seeing players like Mantha and Larkin grow, seeing other young players who aren't as good tread water or sink and hope to get more kids who will start to provide exciting hockey for years to come.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
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730
Vs NJD - OT loss 4-3
Vs LAK - loss 4-1
Vs MON - loss 6-3
@ MON - loss 10-1
Vs WIN - Win 5-1
Vs STL - loss 6-1
------------------------
So far 1-4-1
------
Vs FLA
Vs BOS
Vs TOR
@ NYI
@ PHI
@ BOS
@ NJD
Vs NYR
Vs PIT

I could see the Wings easily bombing out at 5-7-3, even with those home games.

5-7-3 looks optimistic now.
Good chance the Wings go like 2-6-1 the rest of the way through.
That would be 3-10-2
 

Marky9er

Registered User
Jan 30, 2008
7,476
729
It really pisses me off that the one game they didn't give up a touchdown was against the Jets and my office pool horse Mark Scheifele.
 

theYman

Registered User
Feb 28, 2008
21,188
1,688
Look on the bright side everyone. Witkowski will be available again for Monday's game. Finally. I guess he's been what we've been missing these last 10 games.That last piece to the puzzle. We only won 2 games in his absence. Must be the Witkowski effect. lol
 
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Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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Nobody in the NHL has fewer wins than Detroit over the last 10 games.
Next home game is Toronto and then its four straight on the road.

Jimmy Howard has one win in his last 8 outings.
MOAR
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
They ended up 5-7-3, pretty good Redder! :laugh:

*takes a bow.
So what's January look like?

Jan 3 - Ott @ Det
Jan. 5 - Fla @ Det
Jan 7. - TB @ Det
Jan 13 - Det @ Pitt
Jan 14 - Det @ Chi
Jan 16 - Dal @ Det
Jan 20 - Car @ Det
Jan 22 - Det @ NJ
Jan 23 - Phi @ Det
Jan 25 - Chi @ Det
Jan 31 - SJ @ Det

8 home games vs 3 road games?
For a team that has played 20 home games and 15 road games?

There's a good chance Detroit looks pretty good in January.
I can see them going 5-2-4
Detroit would have 51 points in 49 games and still be reasonably close to the playoffs.

What scares me is that if Blashill smartens up even just a little (Detroit is 4-0-1 when Athanasiou plays 18 minutes, for example), this team might stick around long enough to make Holland go for the playoffs.
 

DetroitRed

Crashes the Crease
Apr 7, 2013
2,871
951
Detroit
There's a good chance Detroit looks pretty good in January.
I can see them going 5-2-4
Detroit would have 51 points in 49 games and still be reasonably close to the playoffs.

What scares me is that if Blashill smartens up even just a little (Detroit is 4-0-1 when Athanasiou plays 18 minutes, for example), this team might stick around long enough to make Holland go for the playoffs.

I don't think we have to worry about that possibility. I mean, there's been years where they were in a playoff spot when Holland still stayed put at the deadline.

To his credit, Holland is not the greatest GM, but to bolster your roster at the deadline when you aren't even in a playoff spot is like a Florida Panthers move. That's way worse than what Holland is capable of. In fact, Holland even suckered Florida into one of those deals last deadline, just like taking candy from a baby.

The trial period is now over for the '17-'18 Wings. They ended it on a good note, but it's an example of too little, too late. Moreover, we've seen them put impressive streaks together this season, but they still ultimately failed to make the grade.

Anyway, the fact that anyone was even looking at the Wings as if to try to decide what to do at the deadline was a polite gesture, but it was also systematic and superficial. There is no way anyone was ever really considering not trying to trade away Green for picks at the deadline. That hasn't changed just because they managed to put two wins together.
 
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Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
What scares me is that if Blashill smartens up even just a little (Detroit is 4-0-1 when Athanasiou plays 18 minutes, for example), this team might stick around long enough to make Holland go for the playoffs.
Wait, weren't you one of the people complaining about Blashill cutting AA's minutes or outright benching him?
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
*takes a bow.
So what's January look like?

Jan 3 - Ott @ Det
Jan. 5 - Fla @ Det
Jan 7. - TB @ Det
Jan 13 - Det @ Pitt
Jan 14 - Det @ Chi
Jan 16 - Dal @ Det
Jan 20 - Car @ Det
Jan 22 - Det @ NJ
Jan 23 - Phi @ Det
Jan 25 - Chi @ Det
Jan 31 - SJ @ Det

8 home games vs 3 road games?
For a team that has played 20 home games and 15 road games?

There's a good chance Detroit looks pretty good in January.
I can see them going 5-2-4
Detroit would have 51 points in 49 games and still be reasonably close to the playoffs.

What scares me is that if Blashill smartens up even just a little (Detroit is 4-0-1 when Athanasiou plays 18 minutes, for example), this team might stick around long enough to make Holland go for the playoffs.

3-2 so far -- about where I had them pegged. Maybe a little better.

Detroit hosts Dallas and Carolina next and could easily be 4-2-1.
Pencil them in for a loss against New Jersey and then going 2-0-1 to finish the month at home.
6-3-2 -- which is still 51 points in 49 games.

Very soft part of the schedule.

Detroit starts February with 6 of 8 on the road.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
So after tonight's loss, 3-4 in this stretch. Already more regulation losses than I figured.
Detroit would be lucky to get 4-5 points in their last four games of the month, which puts them at 47-48 points --
Right now Pittsburgh has the final wildcard spot with 53 points - but Detroit has four games in hand Philly is actually in the best spot with 52 points in 46 games.

Even the most optimistic Red Wings fan has to see the writing on the wall.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
12,076
Tampere, Finland
The playoff spot is pretty much gone.

I'm more worried about the buyers market now. Too much parity, Division leaders are not far away from the playoff line, so there won't be much 1st round throwers around. Conditional clauses will become almost no-brainers.

I hope the big teams will get bigger and gaps will grow.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,734
14,704
Sweden
Even the most optimistic Red Wings fan has to see the writing on the wall.
The writing was on the wall since before the season started. Mostly just a question of how long they were going to stay within some kind of striking distance. They're looking close to done.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
The playoff spot is pretty much gone.

I'm more worried about the buyers market now. Too much parity, Division leaders are not far away from the playoff line, so there won't be much 1st round throwers around. Conditional clauses will become almost no-brainers.

I hope the big teams will get bigger and gaps will grow.

Yeah, the number of buyers will be limited.
 

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