Red Kelly/Doug Harvey

[scribe114]

Who was the better player? lets get some good feedback on this one.

Suggestion: If you plan on launching player vs. player threads put a poll in so members can vote.

Semper Fi,

Scribe.

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[Snap Wilson]

Harvey was past his prime by the time I got to see him with the hometown Rags (and his late-sixties comeback with the expansion Blues). He was a smart player, and a nasty one. My memories of Kelly are as a center!

Kelly outpointed Harvey more often than not in the years they played defense, but I think that had more to do with the style of play of their respective teams. Harvey quarterbacked the lethal Habs power play, and a lot of people felt he was the best player on that late-fifties dynasty. I can't definitively say, but I'll go with Harvey.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Based on their accomplishements in the NHL, Harvey is ahead of Kelly. Harvey is the #4 defenseman of all time, Kelly is #5.

 

[ForsbergForever]

7 Norris Trophies don't lie, it's Harvey all the way.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

The voters of the day, who saw both play, consistenly rated Harvey the better d-man when both were at their best, evidenced by the Norris trophies.

That said, hockey Historians probably don't give Kelly the credit he deserved.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I voted for Harvey, but it's quite close.

Keep in mind that the Norris Trophy wasn't around until 1954. Red Kelly had a great season every year from 1950-1953, but he couldn't have won the Norris for any of them. (In those four years, he was 3rd place in Hart voting twice, first team all-star three times, and led all defensemen in scoring all four years). Kelly probably would have won 2 or 3 Norris trophies over that span.

 

[Canucks5551]

I voted for Harvey

 

[Ogopogo*]

The voters of the day, who saw both play, consistenly rated Harvey the better d-man when both were at their best, evidenced by the Norris trophies.

That said, hockey Historians probably don't give Kelly the credit he deserved.

Historians do. It is many of the modern hockey fans that don't. They never saw him play so, they know very little about him.

I think historians have a good undersanding of how great he was. Some do, anyway.

 

[canucksfan]

Harvey. IMO he is the best defencemen not named Orr. Kelly is however, underrated.

 

[Leaf Lander]

the bigger drunk was harvey handsdown

 

[Big Phil]

Harvey for sure. Some really, really old school guys would say he was more complete than Orr, but I think Orr takes that one. But Kelly is often forgotten about as well. He won 8 Cups. And no one won more Cups than him by a player who wasnt a Hab

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

the bigger drunk was harvey handsdown

Do you think he had opportunity to taste that sweet Cape Breton nectar known as Highland Classic, LL???

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Historians do. It is many of the modern hockey fans that don't. They never saw him play so, they know very little about him.

I think historians have a good undersanding of how great he was. Some do, anyway.

I was referring to the lists of all time best players. Kelly invariably comes up much later in those lists than Harvey, when in truth the difference was likely not that much.

 

[mcphee]

My Dad saw both in their prime and says Kelly was great but Harvey could control the tempo of a game.He never saw a player like that until Orr came around. The game was so easy for him, he'd try stunts with the puck to keep interested. He ran the PP like a QB, and would control the puck for long periods on the pk. He had his personal demons,quite a few actually, but I'm told he was one of the great all around athletes.

 

[#66]

I like Kelly more but I voted for Harvey because of the way Beliveau talks about him in his book. Like some others have said he just controled the tempo of the game whether it was with a quick outlet pass or skating back in his zone, having the other team chase him and then passing to a breaking forward. Beliveau also calls him "the general" because of his great leadership in the locker room.

 

[BM67]

Kelly was better for 7 years, then Harvey was better for 7-9 years, then Kelly was better again, so on a career level Kelly is slightly ahead. Peak value would go to Harvey though.