Rebuild/Retool?

hawksfan50

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,093
1,980
Even at his best in the seasons prior to the last 2 and this season so far ,when he would have a zero points game ,he still was hard on the puck ...very good take-away /giveaway differentials...the eyeball test told you he dominated shifts ...causing opps to be bottled up in their own zone and Getti g cut off coming through the neutral zone..he won puck battles...he tired out opponents. .now alk that has revered..they win puck battles ...he always looks treed. .chases..cannot get the puck back after they take vut from him...noticeable kiss of speed. .However he has been able to showcase 6 week ( aporox. ) spurt if better play and production in each of the past 2 seasons starting somewhere
in the late December to late January period and lasting about 6 weeks .This spurt has given (false ( hope that he has found "it" again with the "important goals" and leadership and more speed and energy and want etc...But then he slides back to meh. .This season even that spurt seems unlikely ...but we shall see.

Consider that after our last Cup win he was called tge best player in hockey even though he was not a top ten scorer even..
But now he looks like not even a top 100 player ..more like a cheque cashes and interested in othervthings besides excellence in hockey ..He watches play in his own zone instead of engaging and defending with gust. .in the bi-monthly ,every Tom Dock and Harry dman easily wins pucks from him..He gets pushed to perimeter play around tge walks and too often he is the bone on his line losing the puck in battles with the opps who stymie his attempts at making a play ..perhaps he scores a few meaningless late goals to pad his stats when the opps lead big with a few minutes remaining and tgey let up ...but otherwise he blooms too often tired...slow...unergetic..and simply average to meh ..

I could buy the hard miles excuse for maybe 1 bad season of play. .bit now it has been 2 and a 3rd seasons of non-linear play from him except for some 6 week spurt sconce a season ...This tells me he has gone Country Club...feels entitled as a "star" in his own mind ...deluded that his level of play is nothing to be concerned about ...his explanation for not being concerned about his play and tge Team's play is that if he admitted concern he woukd doubt himself ...that he refuses to doubt himself and his ongoing poor results to ROI expectation given his PAY LEVEL. ..tells you he is in sone sort of delusion his play is still acceptable and that his "stardom" protects him from any criticism of his play nor leadership ..Woukd have been better if he was honest and said he was stinking out the joint ...because recognition of a problem is tge first step to fix g it..His denial of a problem in his play means he only has a hope things will improve ..and a hope means depending on other forces than oneself to get out of the mire ...So hoping for some miracle is probably not going to get him ever out of the Country Club and back to real productive and dominating stardom..Instead short cuts,not giving 100%"A effort for most of the shifts in most of the games ...that will continue to keep him at the Country Club....He went Country Club after tge got the ladt cushy 8 year big bucks deal ...paid as 1 of the 2 top players I the league cali g with Patrick Kane ...paid more than Crosby ..more than Ovechkin...paid to ve Elite..Instead he took the cash and skipped into
Country Club life ...having done enough with the 3 Cups to secure his legacy and so can concentrate on other things besides giving hockey his full attention..Cushy Financial Security ..set for life. .well why sacrifice do hard anymore.. Well it happens to a lot of athletes getting the big payday who proceed to not live upto expectation thereafter ...Of course we see it often ...However if the athlete has any "concern" about a drop off in his performance after the big Contract is given ,there would then be a bounce back to "normal" to expected performance after an "of year"..The problem is that Toews refusedsto face his drop-off in play stretching now 2 and 1/3 seasons..he says he cannot be "concerned" because if he did admit concern he woukd doubt himself and lose any confidence he coukd improve ...This is silly
..how much worse could his play get if he list confidence...he already is Stinking ! RATHER he shoukd admit he is Stinking and nit living upto his pay level ...he should apologize for his stinking. .and he should not try hoidwinking us again by telling us his new biff seadon training methods will solve the problem...No..the problem is his attitude. .he has to get the hunger and want back first ...It is alk in his head. .How urgent and passionate can he get about winning again ? If he was "concerned" about his play and about winning again ,that would be the only way to get out of the complacency of Country Club level of play ...Admit you stick. .then Do something about it with better play ..That is the only solution. BE CONCERNED.. ALWAYS ..but he says he cannot be concerned..andvthe teljsvusca while lot about him and his state of mind...Complacency still rules ...Nothing much is going to change ..He will continue to stink except mayvevfirv6vweeks when gevreakuzesvhe must spurt to at least keep an acceptable season if meh from otherwise being an entire season of poop .But once he gets to his 58points pace ..we that's enough "hard work" ...back to the Country Club..
 
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TLEH

Pronounced T-Lay
Feb 28, 2015
19,666
15,112
Bomoseen, Vermont
I haven’t been disappointed this badly in a long time, but Brandon Saad and Jonathan Toews truly have been massively disappointing.

They brought back Saad to help Toews for one, but they also made the trade for more salary cap stability. Well now the cap is looking to rise significantly and I wish we had Panarin back


I think Q has got to stop playing Toews so many minutes
 
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Kaners Bald Spot

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
22,704
10,812
Kane County, IL
Let's face it about the Hawks...if you're Stan, you have to ask yourself the following questions: 1) Can I re-open the window by trading some of the players on my team now? b) If I've made the team too top-heavy, and now those guys are underperforming, can I get anything of value in return for said players? and if the answer to a) and b) is no, then am I better off just shedding contracts and sinking to the bottom of the league? Waiting and hoping that older players are going to somehow find the fountain of youth is pretty futile and just wastes time.
Honestly I don't know if there is an answer other than the nuclear option. It depends on the fanbase though. What is going to sell more tix?Letting TKK finish their careers in a Hawks sweater OR being proactive on finding the next group of core players for the next Hawk team that raises the Stanley Cup?
 

Panzerspitze

Registered User
Mar 4, 2010
4,957
998
With DeBrincat, Forsling, et al., obviously you try to retool. Being able to unload one or more of Toews and Seabrooks would be a huge help.
 

Toews2Bickell

It's Showtime
Nov 24, 2013
23,387
23,302
Seabrook will probably be bought out after next season when the CBA opt-out occurs. Assuming they give teams a compliance buyout or two. Toews is here to stay imo. And I'm not ready to write him off entirely. His possession numbers are still solid and PPG is slightly lower than career average, but, the coaching staff can work to reduce some of his work load on the PK, etc to hopefully make him more effective in the long run. Seabrook is toast as well all know and Bowman will just have to manage around it until 2019.

With the emergence of DeBrincat and Forsling, to a lesser extent Rutta and Murphy, plus Sikura potentially being a very nice top 9 forward, it's too early to call for a total rebuild. And obviously the LTIR money, significant cap inflation, plus Panarin's bonus money coming off the books should put Bowman in a good spot to address needs of the roster going forward. It will be the first offseason in a very long time they're looking to add cap and not shed it.
 

TLEH

Pronounced T-Lay
Feb 28, 2015
19,666
15,112
Bomoseen, Vermont
Toews is a solid possession player but right now he does nothing with the possession. He plays keep away from the best players in the NHL but produces nothing with it. Not goals, hell, not even scoring chances.
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
1,172
I'm not writing off toews. I'm not expecting him to all of the sudden be a 70 pt scorer but I still think 60 pts and good possession/defense is reasonable.
while i am a huge fan of toews, his lack of production did concerned me, however i was seeing the little things he was look upon. his leadership and ability to still be that #1 shutdown player let alone he is a center.

so for me, i will acknowledge this team still has it ability to do some great things. so i would do a important retool. Seabs contract needs to go, regardless if it would take Panik and or Schm for the offense Murphy and or Forsling on the defensive side. however i would insist a draft pick coming back.

it is a huge payment but needing to have a full free maneuverability in this off-season is a necessity.
 

Toews2Bickell

It's Showtime
Nov 24, 2013
23,387
23,302
Toews is a solid possession player but right now he does nothing with the possession. He plays keep away from the best players in the NHL but produces nothing with it. Not goals, hell, not even scoring chances.

I agree that it does seem Toews is not at good as he once was at creating dangerous chances, especially off the rush.
 
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Toews2Bickell

It's Showtime
Nov 24, 2013
23,387
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I think the best thing to do is sit tight on Seabrook situation and buy him out after next year. It's not worth losing Schmaltz to dump him. Panik wouldn't be nearly enough. The ask would honestly be DeBrincat or Forsling imo. All off the table for a cap dump. Best case they play Seabrook 14-15min a night for the next 1.5 years and he's gone with no cap penalty, assets lost. They don't need to move him in a dire cap situation like Bickell, so they will have some leverage if they explore a trade after season.
 
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LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
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I think the best thing to do is sit tight on Seabrook situation and buy him out after next year. It's not worth losing Schmaltz to dump him. Panik wouldn't be nearly enough. The ask would honestly be DeBrincat or Forsling imo. All off the table for a cap dump. Best case they play Seabrook 14-15min a night for the next 1.5 years and he's gone with no cap penalty, assets lost. They don't need to move him in a dire cap situation like Bickell, so they will have some leverage if they explore a trade after season.
you really make a great defense on sitting on Seabs.

my only defense will be, keeping Seabs at 14-18 mins a game, the team is not advancing but is trying to maintain at a certain level ..... not trying to get better. but is that enuf to hold on to him in hopes of buying him out instead of loosing upcoming players. i do not know.
 

DisgruntledHawkFan

Blackhawk Down
Jun 19, 2004
57,139
27,497
South Side
If they go on a run, don't buy unless it's a three year deal. If they continue to circle the drain, move the bottom six types. Build around the old core and young nucleus. Reinforce them by moving guys like Bouma/Wingels/Kempny/Sharp for mid round picks and promoting guys like Highmore/Hino/Fortin.
 
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Blue Liner

Registered User
Dec 12, 2009
10,332
3,608
Chicago
I think the best thing to do is sit tight on Seabrook situation and buy him out after next year. It's not worth losing Schmaltz to dump him. Panik wouldn't be nearly enough. The ask would honestly be DeBrincat or Forsling imo. All off the table for a cap dump. Best case they play Seabrook 14-15min a night for the next 1.5 years and he's gone with no cap penalty, assets lost. They don't need to move him in a dire cap situation like Bickell, so they will have some leverage if they explore a trade after season.

I will lead the march of pitchforks and torches to 1901 W. Madison Street if this happens, with any one of the current young talents.
 

LordKOTL

Abuse of Officials
Aug 15, 2014
3,525
768
Pacific NW
I think the best thing to do is sit tight on Seabrook situation and buy him out after next year. It's not worth losing Schmaltz to dump him. Panik wouldn't be nearly enough. The ask would honestly be DeBrincat or Forsling imo. All off the table for a cap dump. Best case they play Seabrook 14-15min a night for the next 1.5 years and he's gone with no cap penalty, assets lost. They don't need to move him in a dire cap situation like Bickell, so they will have some leverage if they explore a trade after season.

Stan would prove to the world he's an effing imbecile if he buys Seabs out without a compliance buyout in place. Nothing says "I have been lobotomized" more than having part of Seabrook's cap on the books until 2030.
 

Blue Liner

Registered User
Dec 12, 2009
10,332
3,608
Chicago
Yeah I would those lose it if he trades Schmaltz. Burn that mother ****er to the ground.

Losing TT to for a cap dump was the one and only time that should ever happen. And I'm not saying that should've happened, I mean that better be a one-off. You cannot dish out young, homegrown talent to make up for financial mistakes. You simply cannot. That's damaging on so many levels.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Losing TT to for a cap dump was the one and only time that should ever happen. And I'm not saying that should've happened, I mean that better be a one-off. You cannot dish out young, homegrown talent to make up for financial mistakes. You simply cannot. That's damaging on so many levels.

100% agree.
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
1,172
Losing TT to for a cap dump was the one and only time that should ever happen. And I'm not saying that should've happened, I mean that better be a one-off. You cannot dish out young, homegrown talent to make up for financial mistakes. You simply cannot. That's damaging on so many levels.
while what you are posting, i am in total agreement. the problem is, with the new cba being an unknown, and the FO, who didn't learned anything, went out and screwed up with 1 particular contract.

so the idea of pkg'ing a few good players may be the only way to rid themselves of a really horrific contract.
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
1,172
Stan would prove to the world he's an effing imbecile if he buys Seabs out without a compliance buyout in place. Nothing says "I have been lobotomized" more than having part of Seabrook's cap on the books until 2030.
and what happen if there isn't a compliance buyout or is much later than anyone expected..... what to do ??
 

b1e9a8r5s

Registered User
Feb 16, 2015
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Chicago, IL
and what happen if there isn't a compliance buyout or is much later than anyone expected..... what to do ??

Deal with it then? I believe there's been a buy out after every lockout. Someone can correct me if that's incorrect. But it's going to be "easier" to buyout/trade 5 years of a bad contract than 7 years of one.

Q has finally putting Seabs in a role that he can be effective in. Less ice time, easier competition. Seabs can preform in that role for a bit. Obviously that's not worth his salary, but it's something the Hawks can work around for the time being.

If you can move Seabs contract by giving up someone like Hartman, fine, I'd do it. But trading Cat, Scmaltz or Forsling would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 

LDF

Registered User
Sep 28, 2016
11,778
1,172
Deal with it then? I believe there's been a buy out after every lockout. Someone can correct me if that's incorrect. But it's going to be "easier" to buyout/trade 5 years of a bad contract than 7 years of one.

Q has finally putting Seabs in a role that he can be effective in. Less ice time, easier competition. Seabs can preform in that role for a bit. Obviously that's not worth his salary, but it's something the Hawks can work around for the time being.

If you can move Seabs contract by giving up someone like Hartman, fine, I'd do it. But trading Cat, Scmaltz or Forsling would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
ref Q, that is fine, but come next season, i am looking at the new salary cap and how the team will need to be fixed.

ref the pkg, any team who will be willing to take on Seabs contract, you know as well as I, that they will want a king's ransom to sweeten the deal.
 

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