Speculation: Re: Ripping 4th line players, etc. Was it worth it?

-DeMo-

Registered User
Nov 12, 2006
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Huntsville Ontario
Interesting to see this post while the Lightning's top line has been doing nothing (finally showed up yesterday) and they have been winning with their role players.

Kucherov has 6 goals and 11 points in 9 playoff games, and Stamkos has 9 points in 9 playoff games. that's doing nothing?
 

socko

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
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Martinez, GA
Kucherov has 6 goals and 11 points in 9 playoff games, and Stamkos has 9 points in 9 playoff games. that's doing nothing?
They had 1 empty net goal between them through the first 3 games of the Boston series. That's pretty much nothing. It wasn't bad luck either. They were invisible.
 

-DeMo-

Registered User
Nov 12, 2006
5,441
351
Huntsville Ontario
They had 1 empty net goal between them through the first 3 games of the Boston series. That's pretty much nothing. It wasn't bad luck either. They were invisible.

do you expect players to produce every single game because that doesn't happen. again 6 goals 11 points and 9 point in 9 games is pretty Elite numbers.
 

Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
11,342
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Windsor, ON
When we start trading 2nds for one year, 4th line rentals it starts to become a problem. Especially seeing as we've been bounced in the first right twice. Would rather have been eliminated in the first round with Moore and our Second than eliminated in the first round minus the second and a walking Plekanecs.
 

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
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Toronto
I find it so ****ing funny that the OP made a Kapanen watch thread to try to **** on 4th liner Kappy but then makes this.

But yes every decision adds or subtracts to our chances of winning each game, I find the people who said 'it's only the 4th line doesn't matter" so dumb

No. It matters, but not as greatly as some think it does. As for Kap. he's a little different isn't be? He is in a different category isn't he? He's up and down the line up for a reason. He's being groomed for bigger and better things than expiring contracts (Leo and Moore), and enforcer (Martin).

I never said Kap is a bad player. I am expecting more and he only got 1 goal. That's not unusual or slanted what so ever.

This is my point though. Our key players are the ones with the warts. Matthews is a concern (injury?), Zaitsev has struggled a lot (injury?), Nylander no show (soft and scared), Kap (many no show nights and sometimes confusion), Andersen (many soft goals), Kadri (the repeat offender), Gardiner (-5 in one career worst performance), etc.

People can cheer for and frown on anyone they feel, but give poor Matt Martin a break. The guy didn't even play a single game in the playoffs!
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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And that’s the thing isn’t it. It’s about maximizing every little advantage, every little chance of gaining success.

Will say, after watching Johnssons First game, couldn’t help but get a bit irked by the idea that Martin got games over him this year at all. Or that some felt that Leo could not be replaced. He stepped on the ice a finished product in many ways, and certainly didn’t gain anything else bybyet a few more months with the Marlies
Martin being in over Johnnson was incredibly annoying, but I was even more annoyed at Komarov getting back in the lineup replacing Johnsson despite our 4th line looking like one of the best in the league Johnsson in for Leo.

And just f***ing LMAO @ all the Komarov apologists desperately trying to defend Babcock for his moronic decisions. We were better in every facet of the game without Leo in the lineup. Babcock and his ridiculous obsession with grinder plugs is legitimately holding back this team. Anyone with half a brain can notice this.
 
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Pookie

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You mean like playing unskilled vets who hurt the team just because Babcock likes them?

Babcock told you what he was doing. Rewarding effort and teaching the young players how to earn time.

The alternative is to bring back the country club atmosphere where time is earned because of your name.

Your call.

I’m enjoying the summer.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Babcock told you what he was doing. Rewarding effort and teaching the young players how to earn time.

The alternative is to bring back the country club atmosphere where time is earned because of your name.

Your call.

I’m enjoying the summer.
What? That you can play like absolute shit and still be guaranteed your spot despite being outplayed by a younger and hungrier player? That by very definition is having a spot earned because of name.

I know you're dedicated to defending Komarov because you hate Kadri and refuse to acknowledge that Leo was indeed killing offense on his line, but try to see things from a different perspective here.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,973
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St. Paul, MN
Babcock told you what he was doing. Rewarding effort and teaching the young players how to earn time.

The alternative is to bring back the country club atmosphere where time is earned because of your name.

Your call.

I’m enjoying the summer.

Playing underperforming vets seems like the definition of a country club to me....

People didn’t want these younger guys in because of their name, it’s because they’re faster, more skilled and better hockey players.
 

Pookie

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Playing underperforming vets seems like the definition of a country club to me....

People didn’t want these younger guys in because of their name, it’s because they’re faster, more skilled and better hockey players.

Babcock was looking for different things so when you say underperforming, you aren’t looking through the same lens.

The Leafs had no problem burying underperforming vets in the AHL or creating Robidas Island.

If Komarov was truly underperforming, they would have no trouble with these routes.

Face it. The narrative doesn’t fit. Move on.
 

Pookie

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What? That you can play like absolute **** and still be guaranteed your spot despite being outplayed by a younger and hungrier player? That by very definition is having a spot earned because of name.

I know you're dedicated to defending Komarov because you hate Kadri and refuse to acknowledge that Leo was indeed killing offense on his line, but try to see things from a different perspective here.

I wanted Komarov traded LAST year.

Next.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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All season long some fans on this board ripped 4th line players like Martin, Moore, and Komarov. As well as Polak as the number 6 D. Was it worth it? All three above 4th liners didn't even play in the playoffs. Polak played as well as expected in the playoffs


Why spend so much time focusing on depth / role players when it's our key players the have warts and fell flat?

I actually think some fans credit themselves for getting Komarov moved out of the top 6.

What gives?

Don't you think that hating depth players is futile? They generally don't matter in the end to most teams.
Everything here is "futile" as far as its affect on the Team goes.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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St. Paul, MN
Babcock was looking for different things so when you say underperforming, you aren’t looking through the same lens.

The Leafs had no problem burying underperforming vets in the AHL or creating Robidas Island.

If Komarov was truly underperforming, they would have no trouble with these routes.

Face it. The narrative doesn’t fit. Move on.

Or he had his personal biases towards vets (something he was well known for in Detroit) influence his decisions on some players. And in some cases he eventually overcame them.

Many folks were calling for Martin to be gone after the first season, Babcock eventually came round to seeing things hat way less than a half season later and made him a healthy scratch.

Same thing applied to Johnsson and Leo. Komarov looked like rubbish all year, Babcock still deferred to Dressing Leo until he could no longer deny Johnsson’s skill. Leo would end his career with the Leafs a healthy scratch.

Babcock usually comes round to making the right call, I just wish he’d do things sooner and trust the kids more.
 
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Or he had his personal biases towards vets (something he was well known for in Detroit) influence his decisions on some players. And in some cases he eventually overcame them.

Many folks were calling for Martin to be gone after the first season, Babcock eventually came round to seeing things hat way less than a half season later and made him a healthy scratch.

Same thing applied to Johnsson and Leo. Komarov looked like rubbish all year, Babcock still deferred to Dressing Leo until he could no longer deny Johnsson’s skill. Leo would end his career with the Leafs a healthy scratch.

Babcock usually comes round to making the right call, I just wish he’d do things sooner and trust the kids more.

Robidas Island wasn’t closed. He valued something in Komarov you didn’t see.

Really not much more to say.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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St. Paul, MN
Robidas Island wasn’t closed. He valued something in Komarov you didn’t see.

Really not much more to say.

I understand that.

Problem is that decision may have hurt the team’s competitiveness. Have to hope he takes this as a learning experience.
 

Hockey Talker29

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Oct 10, 2003
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All season long some fans on this board ripped 4th line players like Martin, Moore, and Komarov. As well as Polak as the number 6 D. Was it worth it? All three above 4th liners didn't even play in the playoffs. Polak played as well as expected in the playoffs


Why spend so much time focusing on depth / role players when it's our key players the have warts and fell flat?

I actually think some fans credit themselves for getting Komarov moved out of the top 6.

What gives?

Don't you think that hating depth players is futile? They generally don't matter in the end to most teams.

We lost in 7. Replace Polak and Hainsey with 2 better RHD, and we probably win the series. It wasn't our best players that blew it. They got us there. But the Bruins exposed our right side.

I'd like to replace Zaitsev too, but that may be tough with his contract. Fix our right side, and we're a contender as is.
 

ottomaddox

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Oct 31, 2017
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We lost in 7. Replace Polak and Hainsey with 2 better RHD, and we probably win the series. It wasn't our best players that blew it. They got us there. But the Bruins exposed our right side.

I'd like to replace Zaitsev too, but that may be tough with his contract. Fix our right side, and we're a contender as is.

I agree with most of this statement, accept I think some of our forwards (key ones) need replacing too. It should be an interesting offseason.
 

moon111

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Oct 18, 2014
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a lot of what you said was wrong though, to be fair


And Matt Martin had 3 assist in one game... which is probably about Kap's career totals. This video was a great example of
him using space and time created by his speed. Unfortunately, it shows no ability to make a play in situations where you
are stuck in a phone-booth trying to make change for a call.
 

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