RDS Player drop two points

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futurcorerock

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felixd said:
I'm not arguing you're wrong, but how is it well known?
Prior discussion threads have yielded both names. I think Gary mentioned Houston specifically as an interest for the NHL, and the Ducks were sought by the ownership group that was putting an arena in KC.

Again my memory is sketchy on this one, no articles so I guess my claims are just as much hearsay as the "Quebec back in the NHL!" rants :dunno:
 

K9

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futurcorerock said:
Prior discussion threads have yielded both names. I think Gary mentioned Houston specifically as an interest for the NHL, and the Ducks were sought by the ownership group that was putting an arena in KC.

Again my memory is sketchy on this one, no articles so I guess my claims are just as much hearsay as the "Quebec back in the NHL!" rants :dunno:

Fair enough.

I don't have a problem with Houston, they're supporting all their minor and junior leagues well, but I'm not sure about Kansas City.

How well do you think Kansas City would do? Is there a genuine interest in hockey there?
 

futurcorerock

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felixd said:
Fair enough.

I don't have a problem with Houston, they're supporting all their minor and junior leagues well, but I'm not sure about Kansas City.

How well do you think Kansas City would do? Is there a genuine interest in hockey there?
Well, they had the Scouts back in the day, not sure how they lost their franchise. I would assume they would do well because of the lack of winter competition aside from the Chiefs.

My best comparison was Kansas City to Columbus. Both are within 5 of eachother on the top-50 TV markets

31 Kansas City 875,090 0.8072
32 Cincinnati 872,330 0.8047
33 Milwaukee 871,490 0.8039
34 Columbus, OH 854,040 0.7878

Also, each city have single, solitary football teams (Chiefs and Buckeyes) Granted, Ohio State isnt a professional team, but their program is very popular all over Ohio. The Bluejackets are able to play games in October, when Buckeye Football is in the middle of its season. After football, it's open season for sports, with Ohio State Basketball, The BlueJackets, Clippers (AAA Yankees), and Crew (MLS)

I know Columbus was a bit more proven with their rampant success with the Columbus Chill, but I'm sure that Kansas City could mirror Columbus' success in their own right.

source: http://www.mediainfocenter.org/compare/top50/
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

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Whenever were skeptical of a report we need a conkshell to blow on to signal Bob Mckenzie so he can come here and clear it up or something.
 

ChemiseBleuHonnete

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Munchausen said:
They are not credible (to me, I concede) because they have a tendency to play with wording and insidiously blend facts and opinions to create news where there isn't (either that, or they keep their news in a fog of ambiguity due to their obvious incompetence).

I've read enough of RDS' garbage in the past to now take anything they say with a huge grain of salt. Their journalists are anything but professional (a network that keeps Alain Chanteloi employed for more than a year cannot be taken seriously).

And yes, obviously, this is only my opinion.

i gotta agree with that
 

ColoradoHockeyFan

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PeterSidorkiewicz said:
Whenever were skeptical of a report we need a conkshell to blow on to signal Bob Mckenzie so he can come here and clear it up or something.
No doubt. Has anyone seen an English version of this report elsewhere yet?

Calling Bob... calling Bob...
 

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Munchausen said:
Allow me to remain sceptical about anything written by RDS. They might be TSN's french equivalent, but their journalists are far more incompetent.

Players have given up on the cap issue when they made their 52M proposal, nothing new there.

But I'm mildly curious about this hybrid linkage concept. If it is just rehashing of the infamous clause 7 in the PA's last cap proposal (where the cap will only escalade up, in other words all rewards and no risk), it is nothing that might please the league I would imagine. I guess we'll know more on this by the end of the week.

Is this not simply the same thing Jacobs said. In the Dupont article it seemed that Jacobs was saying the PA presented a proposal in which the ceiling and floor varied with projected revenues. If revenues went down and projections continued that trend then the values would go down the next season and vice versa. It still isn't quite linkage from how Jacobs phrased it as it is not an immediate correction like escrow provides and it also seems based on the projections and not necessarily the actual from what I interpreted as. But is that not just a short step to linkage with a delayed market correction instead of the escrow immediate correction. What that would mean is that if revenues continued downward for any length of consecutive season the owners would take a continual hit while if revenues continued to grow season after season the players would not receive an immediate increase in salary. I think it still puts the bulk of the financial hit on the owners if the league struggles but still allows for the market correction the next season. It isn't a bad compromise on the surface from what i can see.
 

Munchausen

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Chili said:
That type of implication could be made about any news network. Having conversed with a few of their journalists in the past, I know they seek the same types of sources for their stories (i.e. within the game). So I disagree that their reporting contains any more inaccuracies than anyone else, from what I have read.

It's not about their sources, it's the liberties they take with the info they get from their sources. Of course it could be said of other media or more specifically, other journalists, for example, I'm sure the same news is twisted and distorted to no avail in the mouth of Larry Brooks while I trust Bob McKenzie to tell it like it is, no bias, flavor or color to it just for the sake of embelishing, twisting or oversizing it. But I've seen times and times again RDS come out with a seriously misleading piece of information. You can debate their motivations (agenda, scoop hunting, incompetence, etc.), but certainly not that fact. They are a mediocre network as far as accuracy is concerned.
 
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Chili

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Munchausen said:
You can debate their motivations (agenda, scoop hunting, incompetence, etc.), but certainly not that fact.

I asked if you had any specifics but apparently you do not so there is nothing to debate.

We'll see if this story is accurate. And if it is, it will speak for itself.
 

Munchausen

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Chili said:
I asked if you had any specifics but apparently you do not so there is nothing to debate.

We'll see if this story is accurate. And if it is, it will speak for itself.

I'm not going to go and dig old archive articles on RDS if this is what you're asking for, just for the sake of proving it to you. If you follow RDS and don't agree with me, chances are I'm not going to convince you of anything, my opinion is based on years of listening to their sports coverage, more specifically hockey.

If you think I'm full of it, fine, you're entitled to your opinion. There might have been a few debates on RDS' articles' wording on the Habs board if you're that interested, to which I've probably participated, especially regarding the never-ending Koivu/Ribeiro propaganda that comes out of RDS (this would concern the "agenda" aspect of their coverage).
 
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Chili

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Munchausen said:
I'm not going to go and dig old archive articles on RDS if this is what you're asking for, just for the sake of proving it to you. If you follow RDS and don't agree with me, chances are I'm not going to convince you of anything.

If you think I'm full of it, fine, you're entitled to your opinion. There might have been a few debates on RDS' articles' wording on the Habs board if you're that interested, to which I've probably participated, especially regarding the ever-ending Koivu/Ribeiro propaganda that comes out of RDS (this would concern the "agenda" aspect of their coverage).

Your implication was that they are not credible so I was curious if there was a specific incident why you are claiming that (i.e. such as the The Hockey News and their story on a cba agreement a couple of months back).

I still don't see any specifics to debate on their credibility. (i.e. all news sources have biased commentary columns that I have read).
 

Munchausen

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Chili said:
Your implication was that they are not credible so I was curious if there was a specific incident why you are claiming that (i.e. such as the The Hockey News and their story on a cba agreement a couple of months back).

I still don't see any specifics to debate on their credibility. (i.e. all news sources have biased commentary columns that I have read).

Like I said, I'm not going to go and dig old articles for you, which would probably be needed in order to talk in deep about their approximation as far as information is concerned, so no, I guess I don't have any specifics for you.

It is nothing like The Hockey News blunder a few weeks ago either. My opinion is based on years of listening to RDS and seeing how they tend to take comments out of context and distort them, use quotes to support the journalist's assumptions but writing it as fact, using misleading sentences or words that give an other meaning, or blur the original meaning of the article, and even though those things are generally benign, they add-up over the years (and it has lead me to seek for sports news elsewhere for that very reason).

BTW, there's indeed nothing wrong with columnists that have biased opinions and don't shy away from expressing them. However, there is something wrong with hiding your bias behind facts and twisting the information to create a news that isn't there, which happened time and time again in the Koivu/Ribeiro saga. For all their cumulated inaccuracies, I came to the conclusion I couldn't rely on them to get cold hard facts without a tint added to it for whatever reason.
 

Chili

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Munchausen said:
Like I said, I'm not going to go and dig old articles for you, which would probably be needed in order to talk in deep about their approximation as far as information is concerned, so no, I guess I don't have any specifics for you.

It is nothing like The Hockey News blunder a few weeks ago either. My opinion is based on years of listening to RDS and seeing how they tend to take comments out of context and distort them, use quotes to support the journalist's assumptions but writing it as fact, using misleading sentences or words that give an other meaning, or blur the original meaning of the article, and even though those things are generally benign, they add-up over the years (and it has lead me to seek for sports news elsewhere for that very reason).

BTW, there's indeed nothing wrong with columnists that have biased opinions and don't shy away from expressing them. However, there is something wrong with hiding your bias behind facts and twisting the information to create a news that isn't there, which happened time and time again in the Koivu/Ribeiro saga. For all their cumulated inaccuracies, I came to the conclusion I couldn't rely on them to get cold hard facts without a tint added to it for whatever reason.

No one asked you to dig out any columns. I just had to mention the THN story and you knew exactly what I was referring to.

But if someone is going to discredit someone/something, you would think that it would be based on at least one specific incident/story.

Until the story above is proven inaccurate, it's worthy of discussion in my opinion. And we should hear more on it in the next few days.
 

ColoradoHockeyFan

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Drury_Sakic

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ColoradoHockeyFan said:
Thanks for that. Anyone have any solid ideas on what is meant by Daly viewing it as "incomplete?" I'm sure we're battling some language/translation barriers here... I sure wish we'd also had some English reporters getting the same comments.

I would say he ment not finished, not finalized...

as they seemed to talk forever about it(or something on monday)... hopefully bartering numbers back and forth, rounding out the idea...

I would assume the PA came into the meeting and say, we are thinking about this...what will we get if we offer this, and what do the numbers work out for us on your end..the NHL said we want this...and the PA said, well if we give that.. we want this.... and so on for hours..
 

Fan-in-Van

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felixd said:
Sorry I can't find you an article. Le Journal de Montréal doesn't keep all their articles online. But the article was an interview with Aubut and he was explaining that there were plans for a new arena in Quebec City.

Maybe you were thinking of the IIHF World Hockey Championship that is planned for Quebec City and Halifax in 2008?
 

Chayos

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Munchausen said:
They are not credible (to me, I concede) because they have a tendency to play with wording and insidiously blend facts and opinions to create news where there isn't (either that, or they keep their news in a fog of ambiguity due to their obvious incompetence).

I've read enough of RDS' garbage in the past to now take anything they say with a huge grain of salt. Their journalists are anything but professional (a network that keeps Alain Chanteloi employed for more than a year cannot be taken seriously).

And yes, obviously, this is only my opinion.

I have to agree with you on this one. Their track record isn't very good!
 

Habsaku

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Heres an example of RDS not looking far into their sources(not hockey related though).

A few months ago, Ouellette started practicing at Champions Boxing Club, the same as me at the time. Then a few days later I hear he plans on buying that club(btw, the clubs owner is a millionaire and he doesnt make a cent with that club, quite the contrary). So I go and ask my coach, he starts laughing at me, that rumour was just a joke told to RDS, Stephane Ouellet is broke, hes dumb, no one likes him there and the owner has no plans on selling it.
 

K9

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Fan-in-Van said:
Maybe you were thinking of the IIHF World Hockey Championship that is planned for Quebec City and Halifax in 2008?

That could be, although that would leave little time for the new arena to be built.
 

x-bob

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Thi sis such great news. Now that the PA "caved" on 2 important points, they can actually get to some discussions.
 

ColoradoHockeyFan

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Drury_Sakic said:
I would say he ment not finished, not finalized...

as they seemed to talk forever about it(or something on monday)... hopefully bartering numbers back and forth, rounding out the idea...

I would assume the PA came into the meeting and say, we are thinking about this...what will we get if we offer this, and what do the numbers work out for us on your end..the NHL said we want this...and the PA said, well if we give that.. we want this.... and so on for hours..
I suppose, though the exact paragraph from the translated version is:

The vice-president of the national League, Bill Daly, indicated that the AJLNH proposed a hybrid form of the principle. Thus incomplete according to him.

So the "thus incomplete" follows directly from the fact that a "hybrid form of the principle" was proposed. That's the part I'm wondering about... exactly what Daly meant when he termed it incomplete due to the fact that it was a hybrid. Again, the translation could be getting in the way here. Anyone here extremely fluent in both French and English... maybe able to provide us a better read on the original French version and capture some of the nuances of the language that we might be losing?
 

x-bob

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ColoradoHockeyFan said:
I suppose, though the exact paragraph from the translated version is:

The vice-president of the national League, Bill Daly, indicated that the AJLNH proposed a hybrid form of the principle. Thus incomplete according to him.

So the "thus incomplete" follows directly from the fact that a "hybrid form of the principle" was proposed. That's the part I'm wondering about... exactly what Daly meant when he termed it incomplete due to the fact that it was a hybrid. Again, the translation could be getting in the way here. Anyone here extremely fluent in both French and English... maybe able to provide us a better read on the original French version and capture some of the nuances of the language that we might be losing?

Ya, I'll get right on it. Try and tranlate it the best I can.
 

x-bob

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The players caved on two major points

Wednesday, April th 2005 - (RDS) - It seems that Monday, the NHLPA accepted not only the idea of a salary cap but also linkage between salaries and revenue for the first time since the beginning of this lockout.

The vice-president of the NHL, Bill Daly, indicated that the new NHLPA proposal was a kind of hybrid of principles thus being incomplete in his eyes.

Negotiations will be held Tomorrow in Detroit in parallele with the meeting involving the GM's and players.


I think the reason why Daly beleives it's incomplete is because no numbers were discussed and that it was more like they just said that tehy cave on those 2 points. Maybe the NHL find it incomplete because they don't know what they are gonna have to cave for yet.
 
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