RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III

[nobody]

Barring injuries, Timmy is going to be an absolute star. He needs to desperately build up his strength and work on his edges (too much falling out there) and the sky is the limit for this kid. I don't think I would have ever imagined his defensive play to be so damn good. His critics all look like a bunch of morons right now. It wasn't hockey IQ he was lacking, it was confidence.

Only negative I have for Lilly is his constant fanning on passes. Not sure what the cause is but it's really annoying to see.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

From watching him more and more I really like what Button said about him last year. People were shitting on Button for saying he didn't have the offensive abilities in the offensive zone that the truely elite point producing dmen possess, but that he does have the ability to be very good everywhere else. I believe he compared him to a prime Trevor Daley? A solid #3-4 type guy that can play big minutes if needed.

Really needs to get stronger but he's still being physical and all that which is cool.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

People were ****ting on Button for saying he didn't have the offensive abilities in the offensive zone that the truely elite point producing dmen possess, but that he does have the ability to be very good everywhere else. I believe he compared him to a prime Trevor Daley?

Button is a moron, and his hot takes are awful. Including that one.

 

[AuraSphere]

I'm very confused at people saying he needs to get stronger... he's already pretty strong, I think he just needs more confidence which he's been building up after every game. One more full season in the AHL as the go to guy and he'll be lit

 

[Fogelhund]

Button is a moron, and his hot takes are awful. Including that one.

Is it wrong? At what point has Liljegren been putting up Elite offensive numbers? In the U20's? In the U18's? In the AHL?

Lilly managed two points at the U20's this year.... Dahlin had six.
Lily has 4 points in 18 playoff games this year. 17 points in 44 regular season AHL games.

To me, he's been far better defensively than I had expected, and a pleasant surprise there. I don't think he's shown anything yet, to support an argument that he is "Elite" offensively. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and see him get near 50 points in the AHL next year...

 

[mike dad bab clock]

Admittedly I haven't watched much of the Marlies this year until the playoffs. However, the growth Liljegren has displayed just from the WJC to the current playoffs has me extremely excited for the kid.

 

[Morgs]

Is it wrong? At what point has Liljegren been putting up Elite offensive numbers? In the U20's? In the U18's? In the AHL?

Lilly managed two points at the U20's this year.... Dahlin had six.
Lily has 4 points in 18 playoff games this year. 17 points in 44 regular season AHL games.

To me, he's been far better defensively than I had expected, and a pleasant surprise there. I don't think he's shown anything yet, to support an argument that he is "Elite" offensively. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and see him get near 50 points in the AHL next year...

Age 16 in the SHL he had some pretty elite numbers

Guy's focus is defense, as Rielly's was the first few seasons. Let him learn, and then let him unleash himself.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Good chance when a player is pick at 18, he isn't going to be an elite Dman. But can he be good maybe even very Dman in the future? Are the eight Dmen picked ahead of him are they all elite? Folks might just have a different definition of elite compared to me.

 

[Fogelhund]

Good chance when a player is pick at 18, he isn't going to be an elite Dman. But can he be good maybe even very Dman in the future? Are the eight Dmen picked ahead of him are they all elite? Folks might just have a different definition of elite compared to me.

Actually... Elite D men aren't very predictable by draft position. You'll find over half of the Norris nominees finalists from the past five or six seasons, were drafted outside of the first round.

 

[Fogelhund]

Age 16 in the SHL he had some pretty elite numbers

Guy's focus is defense, as Rielly's was the first few seasons. Let him learn, and then let him unleash himself.

Yes, he's been somewhat sheltered offensively this year, little PP time, etc... yet, I think the best we can hope for, is really good defensively, and if he eventually puts up 30-40 points in the NHL, it would be an awesome pick. But, that's not elite....

 

[613Leafer]

Yes, he's been somewhat sheltered offensively this year, little PP time, etc... yet, I think the best we can hope for, is really good defensively, and if he eventually puts up 30-40 points in the NHL, it would be an awesome pick. But, that's not elite....

Given team needs, I'd rather a really solid defensive guy with moderate offence (e.g. if he can get to McDonagh, Vlasic, Hamhuis, etc, level), then an elite offensive guy that struggles defensively.

Regardless, hard to not be happy with the results so far for a 17th OA pick.

 

[Atomos2]

Is it wrong? At what point has Liljegren been putting up Elite offensive numbers? In the U20's? In the U18's? In the AHL?

Lilly managed two points at the U20's this year.... Dahlin had six.
Lily has 4 points in 18 playoff games this year. 17 points in 44 regular season AHL games.

To me, he's been far better defensively than I had expected, and a pleasant surprise there. I don't think he's shown anything yet, to support an argument that he is "Elite" offensively. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and see him get near 50 points in the AHL next year...

Defencemen develop slowly. Judging his offensive game at this stage is way too premature as emphasis will always go to taking care of your own end first, especially in a developmental league. Very rarely do you see a young defenceman come in to the league and take off offensively right away. And if they do, there are very clear defensive holes in their game. Development is a gadual process. Rielly as 23 year old had his first 50pt season. I know this is obvios to most people but it sometimes has to be said. We need patience and he needs to develop like he's been doing.

 

[LaymanX]

Saw him a number of times in person. Very fluid skating, not that fast though. Was *always* on the wrong side of a massive hit. Always bounced back up.

I think the scouting report on him is to target him physically as he's still young and underdeveloped. Otherwise, he was rarely out of place and made good passes

 

[biotk]

Are the eight Dmen picked ahead of him are they all elite?

There were 5 D drafted ahead of him Heiskanen, Makar, Footw, Brannstrom and Valimaki.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Is it wrong? At what point has Liljegren been putting up Elite offensive numbers? In the U20's? In the U18's? In the AHL?

Lilly managed two points at the U20's this year.... Dahlin had six.
Lily has 4 points in 18 playoff games this year. 17 points in 44 regular season AHL games.

To me, he's been far better defensively than I had expected, and a pleasant surprise there. I don't think he's shown anything yet, to support an argument that he is "Elite" offensively. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and see him get near 50 points in the AHL next year...

Perhaps not but a key nugget:

"He is 16 months younger than any other AHL defenceman"

How were other elite offensive d-men doing at the same point in their lives? Add another year to Liljegren and let time stand still for everyone else and he's still the youngest guy in the league, a child largely amongst men.

 

[TheProspector]

Is it wrong? At what point has Liljegren been putting up Elite offensive numbers? In the U20's? In the U18's? In the AHL?

Lilly managed two points at the U20's this year.... Dahlin had six.
Lily has 4 points in 18 playoff games this year. 17 points in 44 regular season AHL games.

To me, he's been far better defensively than I had expected, and a pleasant surprise there. I don't think he's shown anything yet, to support an argument that he is "Elite" offensively. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and see him get near 50 points in the AHL next year...

FYI, 17P in 44GP is *very* good for a 19yo D-man in the AHL. The last guy that did similar was Voynov.

 

[Fogelhund]

Defencemen develop slowly. Judging his offensive game at this stage is way too premature as emphasis will always go to taking care of your own end first, especially in a developmental league. Very rarely do you see a young defenceman come in to the league and take off offensively right away. And if they do, there are very clear defensive holes in their game. Development is a gadual process. Rielly as 23 year old had his first 50pt season. I know this is obvios to most people but it sometimes has to be said. We need patience and he needs to develop like he's been doing.

Defencemen develop their defensive game slowy.... Offense is typically a skill that is there, or not.

You look at current NHL D, and their stats in their rookie campaign in the AHL.

John Carlson - 19 year old AHL Rookie year. 39 points in 48 games.
Karlsson - 19 year old AHL Rookie - 11 points in 12 games
Subban - 20 year old AHL Rookie - 53 points in 77 games
Krug - 21 year old AHL Rookie - 45 points in 65 games
Tyson Barrie - 20 year old AHL Rookie - 32 points in 49 games.

Sure, offense can take time to develop in the NHL, but in the AHL, Elite offensive D, show their numbers in their first seasons.... Granted, Lilly is younger than these guys, and patience is needed... let's see what he can do with more ice time, as a 19 year old to start the year. And note... this is a discussion over the term "ELITE"... not good, or very good... but ELITE. As @613Leafer has said... if we get a very good Defensive guy, with average Offense skills, that a great player to have on our team.

 

[biotk]

Given team needs, I'd rather a really solid defensive guy with moderate offence (e.g. if he can get to McDonagh, Vlasic, Hamhuis, etc, level), then an elite offensive guy that struggles defensively.

The team biggest need is a RHD who can move the puck. As of right now they have Gardiner, Rielly and Dermott on the left, and Hainey, Zaitsev, Carrick, Polak on the right. Boston understood that the puck was only coming out of the Leafs zone in a controlled manner (either skate or pass) on the left side, from the right side it was only through uncontrolled attempts. It was very easy to plan against.

I understand that most fans see that the Leafs need RHD and the leafs need D who are strong defensively, and then they put the two together and say that someone like Tanev would be a great solution. But, they are too easy to play against when all their LHD are the puck movers, and all their RHD are not. It would also be nice to have a RHD on one of the PP units.

 

[Fogelhund]

FYI, 17P in 44GP is *very* good for a 19yo D-man in the AHL. The last guy that did similar was Voynov.

But, the discussion wasn't about "VERY GOOD", it was about "ELITE".

 

[biotk]

There has only been one AHL D who played on a different level than Liljegren at the same age. That was Werenski in the playoffs. Morrisey put up more points in the playoffs, but I wouldn't say was a different level. Carlson had 3 points in 16 games (in the playoffs). Rielly 4 points in 22 games (regular season and playoffs). Liljegren has played great, adjusting to NA ice, concentrating on his defensive game. Not really interested in comparing him to what other D did when they were 2 and 3 years older.

 

[AvatarAang]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

 

[X66]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

No way.

If this was in 2015 though, that's a different story.

 

[Morgs]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

I'm gonna say no. The defense in that range have just as many or more question marks, and are a year less developed.

 

[Fogelhund]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

The only way I'd think about it, is if Dobson were still available at that point, which is highly doubtful. Otherwise, hard pass.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Defencemen develop their defensive game slowy.... Offense is typically a skill that is there, or not.

You look at current NHL D, and their stats in their rookie campaign in the AHL.

John Carlson - 19 year old AHL Rookie year. 39 points in 48 games.
Karlsson - 19 year old AHL Rookie - 11 points in 12 games
Subban - 20 year old AHL Rookie - 53 points in 77 games
Krug - 21 year old AHL Rookie - 45 points in 65 games
Tyson Barrie - 20 year old AHL Rookie - 32 points in 49 games.

Sure, offense can take time to develop in the NHL, but in the AHL, Elite offensive D, show their numbers in their first seasons.... Granted, Lilly is younger than these guys, and patience is needed... let's see what he can do with more ice time, as a 19 year old to start the year. And note... this is a discussion over the term "ELITE"... not good, or very good... but ELITE. As @613Leafer has said... if we get a very good Defensive guy, with average Offense skills, that a great player to have on our team.

That seems like a very dishonest interpretation given this was Liljegren's first year since being drafted. Carlson was in his second year, Karlsson in his second year, Subban in his third, Krug in his 4th and Barrie in his 3rd.

In short, you need better examples or to wait another one to 3 years and have Liljegren play in the AHL.