RD PK Subban (2007, 43rd, MTL)

[Psycho Papa Joe]

I think the Visnovsky comparison is a good one. He played very well at the world juniors. But 5v5 he didn't stand out among the Canadian D.

I could be wrong, but didn't he have the best plus/minus of any d-man in the tournament? His plus minus is also exceptional in the OHL.

 

[Jacob]

Better than Hickey, that's for sure.

 

[sauce]

I could be wrong, but didn't he have the best plus/minus of any d-man in the tournament? His plus minus is also exceptional in the OHL.

Plus minus goes out the window when you beat teams 15-0.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Plus minus goes out the window when you beat teams 15-0.

But still, he was apparantly better than the other Canadian d-men in that regard, who were also involved in the blowouts, so he did show something 5v5 which was my point. Maybe just look at how he did in the games against real competition then?

 

[FrankMTL]

Plus minus goes out the window when you beat teams 15-0.

Ya but he was on the ice for only 3 even strength goals against the whole tournament and which ones were really his fault??

-Pietrangelo fell over giving the Russian player a breakaway...Subban tried to cover up but coulden't

-Goloubef didn't tie up his man on the 5th Russian goal and he scored

-Swedish player shot the puck off Hickey's stick and over Tokarski's shoulder

Fine, you can discount the Kazakhstan, but the fact remains that PK Subban was on the ice for about 75% of Canada's goals regardless.

How does Subban end off the Tournament with a +12 and Hickey & Teubert end the tournament with -3??? Thats a big friggin' discrepency....

Lets say we take out the so called "easy" games against Germany and Kazakhstan...the following would be the total +/- ratings for Canada's d-men against the Czech Republic, USA, Russia and Sweden:

PK Subban +5
Ryan Ellis +5
Cody Goloubef +4
Tyler Myers +4
Keith Aulie +4
Alex Pietrangelo +1
Thomas Hickey -3
Colton Teubert -3

For a player to be so "apparantly" weak defensively...he did pretty good against tough competition.

 

[sauce]

But still, he was apparantly better than the other Canadian d-men in that regard, who were also involved in the blowouts, so he did show something 5v5 which was my point. Maybe just look at how he did in the games against real competition then?

He's better offensively than most of the Canadian D which means he can singlehandedly create chances against bad teams that say Colton Teubert can't create, and since minuses aren't really an issue against bad teams, then his plus minus in those games will almost always be better than a guy like Teubert's because of the chances he creates.

But I'll agree with the comment about the real competition.

Finals even
Semis even
vs. USA +2

 

[hototogisu]

I know Subban is a character but he needs to keep his emotions in check. First there was the dive/embellishment in Canada's first game, then the pounding the net/hopping around stuff when Tokarski got bumped last night. I could do without that stuff. On the other hand, he is still just a kid.

As fas as his play goes, I was not a big Subban fan before this tournament. I always thought he was going to be way too much a liability on D to ever really be able counted on as a go-to defenseman. But he really proved me wrong. Aside from a couple of gaffes, he was very solid defensively, and wound up being named Canada's best defenseman. Not bad for someone who some people said shouldn't have even made the team in camp (or who should only be used on powerplays).

 

[sauce]

Ya but he was on the ice for only 3 even strength goals against the whole tournament and which ones were really his fault??

This comment is exactly why I think that plus minus is about the dumbest stat in hockey, and especially dumb when you blow out 3 teams in a 6 game tournament.

I'm done with this argument. Subban is a good prospect, but this tournament did not change how I feel about his potential. Others might disagree, and that is fine by me. He's now going to be overpaid on his entry contract and I'm glad that is someone else's problem.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Hab fan or not...

I really thought that Subban was very entertaining to watch.
I don't get the few negative comments out here on HF...is it jealousy? bitterness? anger? is it 'cause he's a HAB prospect?

IMO, PK Subban did really well for Canada.

I'm 100% sure (even if he wasn't a HAB prospect) that I would be able to admit that he is going to be a good one in the NHL (a grittier Mike Green? a grittier version of Brian Campbell?).


Off topic: also...I enjoyed watching Victor Hedman (another
Bouwmeester? a softer version of Pronger? taller version of Lidstrom? he should have a solid NHL career).

Oh man. The guy had a great tournament and looks to have a very promising future, but let's not predict that he'll be as good as two of the best offensive defensemen currently in the NHL, and also grittier...

Hell, Subban's not even as good a junior player as those guys were. At 19, Campbell put up 87 points in 62 games and was a +45 with the 67s. At the same age, Mike Green put up 66 points in 67 games and was a +36.

Subban isn't a point per game player right now like those guys were.

Personally, I think he'll turn out to be a solid second pairing offensive guy (Joe Corvo, Ron Hainsey, J.M Liles, etc), which isn't all that bad for a 2nd round pick.

 

[Squeaky]

One thing to keep in mind about Subban is we don't really know how good defensively he'll be at the NHL level. Sure, right now he's running around trying spinoramas and whatnot, but he's still in juniors. He plays for teams where that goofball stuff actually works, and he gets rewarded for roaming around so much on the scoresheet.

A lot of guys need a year or two in the AHL to learn how to play NHL-style hockey. If I learned one thing watching Subban in this WJC, it's that he's not terribly close to the NHL. I think he'll need at least a full season in Hamilton learning to play proper D. But I also saw that he's quite capable of playing D when he tries to, he's just got to learn and commit to a system.

 

[RhyZa]

Very intriguing player. I see him as a 2nd pair defenseman ceiling wise. But I agree with those curbing their enthusiasm a bit. Not to say he isn't good, but I wouldn't expect his style to translate as well or as quickly to the NHL, so he has some developing to do.

Good point on a solid safe defensive partner will allow him to utilize his strengths.

 

[Squeaky]

Oh man. The guy had a great tournament and looks to have a very promising future, but let's not predict that he'll be as good as two of the best offensive defensemen currently in the NHL, and also grittier...

Hell, Subban's not even as good a junior player as those guys were. At 19, Campbell put up 87 points in 62 games and was a +45 with the 67s. At the same age, Mike Green put up 66 points in 67 games and was a +36.

Subban isn't a point per game player right now like those guys were.

Personally, I think he'll turn out to be a solid second pairing offensive guy (Joe Corvo, Ron Hainsey, J.M Liles, etc), which isn't all that bad for a 2nd round pick.

Subban has 37 points in 29 games this year. His numbers look surprisingly close to what Campbell did in Juniors, and substantially better than Greens.

But that doesn't mean anything. They played on different teams in different leagues at different times, and numbers in Juniors are pretty close to meaningless anyway.

 

[FrankMTL]

This comment is exactly why I think that plus minus is about the dumbest stat in hockey, and especially dumb when you blow out 3 teams in a 6 game tournament.

I'm done with this argument. Subban is a good prospect, but this tournament did not change how I feel about his potential. Others might disagree, and that is fine by me. He's now going to be overpaid on his entry contract and I'm glad that is someone else's problem.

He's still a second round pick and will probably still be paid like one. Your entitled to your opinion and were entitled to ours.

 

[Patty Roy]

His stock has gone way up after this tournament, nobody can deny that.

At this point i see him as possibly being a better version of Joe Corvo, which im totally fine with. Play him with a Komisarek and enjoy the offensive production.

 

[FrankMTL]

Oh man. The guy had a great tournament and looks to have a very promising future, but let's not predict that he'll be as good as two of the best offensive defensemen currently in the NHL, and also grittier...

Hell, Subban's not even as good a junior player as those guys were. At 19, Campbell put up 87 points in 62 games and was a +45 with the 67s. At the same age, Mike Green put up 66 points in 67 games and was a +36.

Subban isn't a point per game player right now like those guys were.

Personally, I think he'll turn out to be a solid second pairing offensive guy (Joe Corvo, Ron Hainsey, J.M Liles, etc), which isn't all that bad for a 2nd round pick.

Did you even check Subban's stats this year or are you just assuming?? Subban has 37 points in 29 games with a +27 for the Belleville Bulls.

If you pro-rate Subban's stats in junior over the same number of games as Green at the age of 19, this is what you get

Campbell had 87 points in 62 games and a +45
Green had 66 points in 67 games and a + 36
Subban would have 85 points in 67 games with a +62

I'm not using this as an argument as I think he may end up being a second pairing guy with offensive upside as well...but check your numbers before you post.

 

[Alberta Yote]

Love his wheels and really like his personality. He's a much better overall d-man than I'd have given him credit for before the tournament.

That said, it is a short tournament and he'll still have to prove himself in the AHL and the NHL in years to come. I think there's a better than good chance he'll have a really good but not elite NHL career. My best guess would be a solid 3/4 type guy that gets a lot of PP time.

 

[Grub]

Wow...

Alot of people are sure bashing subban.

Subban is a beast...

I NOTICED HIM EVERY GAME.... and mostly how effective he was in the offensive zone.

I think He is the next JOVO.

Look at his leadership skills also... I am jelous for you MTL fans . You sure got a steal at the second round. Subban clearly outplayed ALex P.

LOOK AT HICKEY.. he was horendous.... I can't believe he even had the C, he should had wore gloves when holding the throphy.

Subban is awsome!

 

[Starscream]

I guess I'm the only one that would convert him to a winger in the NHL. He looks like he would be a great power foward in the future. if he stays as a Dman I see him has a bottom pairing power play specialist.

The Dman that impressed me the most was Tyler Myer, that kid is going to be a beast in the NHL.

 

[Schenn Him]

I am glad that I can pretty safely say I will no longer have to cheer for a team that PK Subban plays on. He had an amazing tournament - no questioning that. He was Canada's best offensive defenseman - and you need one of those in a tournament like this. I thought it would have been Hickey, but Subban supplanted him in that role.

That being said - he is a high risk player. He very nearly got burned a few times against Russia, and wasn't as noticeable against Sweden. Also - as far as the points go - not a lot of NHL teams run a PP where he is going to be allowed to stand at the top of the crease and bang away at the puck.

He also seems a little bit too fond of the cute play, instead of the right, less flashy play. At the next level, when the weaker players get weeded out, and he is facing the best every night, he'll have to adapt.

Bottom line - he's a heckuva prospect, and probably a draft-day steal. But I found him frustrating to watch a lot of the time. I see a lot of Bryan McCabe in him.

 

[Goldthorpe]

IMHO Subban professional future will come to how coachable he is. He has a lot of very intriguing tools, a great attitude, and the heart of a Lion. But can he accept to "re-learn" the way he plays in the pro, without relying on the same kind of high-risk plays he's known for? I fully agree that he's a boom or bust prospect.

He he ends up with a good coach who manage to make him understand the importance of steadiness and constance in the NHL, then he's a future top-2 blueliner. But If he ends up in the AHL, high on his junior numbers, and refuse to reconsider the way he plays, he won't be as succesful.

The good news is that he does seem to have a pretty good head of his shoulders. He's already much better defensively than last year, and he didn't look bad at all during the habs training camp this fall.

One thing for sure, his personality is refreshing. His supreme confidence and demeanors reminds me a bit of Ali.

 

[daethfromabove1979]

pk subban needs to learn to use his teammates better when he has the puck.. he won't be able to rush like that in the nhl and his passing didn't seem awfully good at all

 

[SFKingshomer]

Better than Hickey, that's for sure.

Yet Hickey was matched up against other teams best players. Hickey=Duncan Keith and Subban= Mark Streit.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Ya but he was on the ice for only 3 even strength goals against the whole tournament and which ones were really his fault??

-Pietrangelo fell over giving the Russian player a breakaway...Subban tried to cover up but coulden't

-Goloubef didn't tie up his man on the 5th Russian goal and he scored

-Swedish player shot the puck off Hickey's stick and over Tokarski's shoulder

Fine, you can discount the Kazakhstan, but the fact remains that PK Subban was on the ice for about 75% of Canada's goals regardless.

How does Subban end off the Tournament with a +12 and Hickey & Teubert end the tournament with -3??? Thats a big friggin' discrepency....

Lets say we take out the so called "easy" games against Germany and Kazakhstan...the following would be the total +/- ratings for Canada's d-men against the Czech Republic, USA, Russia and Sweden:

PK Subban +5
Ryan Ellis +5
Cody Goloubef +4
Tyler Myers +4
Keith Aulie +4
Alex Pietrangelo +1
Thomas Hickey -3
Colton Teubert -3

For a player to be so "apparantly" weak defensively...he did pretty good against tough competition.

Hickey and Teubert were also matched up against other teams best players so +/- means **** all.

 

[FrankMTL]

Hickey and Teubert were also matched up against other teams best players so +/- means **** all.

You're right...but regardless Hickey was made to look like an ass on many occasions and Subban's ice time grew to the point that he was on the ice in the toughest situation just like Hickey. Face it, Hickey had a ****** tournament. Lets hope for your sake he rebounds and proves that he deserved to be drafted at 4th overall.

You can ***** all you want about the Canadian team and obviously your a Kings fan and will defend your players, but find me somebody that's not a homer who thought Hickey and Teubert had a good tournament.

 

[sauce]

You're right...but regardless Hickey was made to look like an ass on many occasions and Subban's ice time grew to the point that he was on the ice in the toughest situation just like Hickey. Face it, Hickey had a ****** tournament. Lets hope for your sake he rebounds and proves that he deserved to be drafted at 4th overall.

You can ***** all you want about the Canadian team and obviously your a Kings fan and will defend your players, but find me somebody that's not a homer who thought Hickey and Teubert had a good tournament.

Subban was better than both Hickey and Teubert. At the end of the tournament it was the Myers pairing out against the top lines, not the Hickey pairing and not the Subban pairing.