WC: [rant] The rest of the world is going to get better

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Ilyeu

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Jan 10, 2010
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This is a sort of rant of sorts. I need to express some thoughts, about other nations with respect to the very elite nations. I'm talking about Sweden, Canada, USA and Russia. (I'm not sure about the Czech Republic anymore, they've dropped in quality very quickly).

I like reading comments from people from many places, like IIHF's facebook, TSN (non canadians), cbc (non canadians), youtube, hfboards and so on and on, I like to get a feel for what they're thinking. I have a issue with some things people are saying on the IIHF facebook page especially since these are people who showing their identities so there is some truths to what they believe.

Ok, what is bothering me? The little nations fans are starting to bother me. We have people from Switizerland, Denmark, Latvia and so on, that say things like this:

"Canada and Russia are no longer a force"
"The rest of the world is catching up"
"Hockey is growing and the elite are going to be no more"
"[insert country] is going to get become unstoppable in the future"

my favorite:
"the swiss national league (I think) got as good as the NHL. They have developed their hockey in the last decade immensely! I must say, that the quality of the games got equal in the last years."

From my general knowledge the Swiss has grown immensely because of Canadian coaching, teaching with the youth, Canadian players and Canadian national team coaching influence. Now, the Swiss beating their chests like they're some kind of super power?

What about the Danes, they're getting good, but isn't it funny how Sweden is right next door. I'm sure the Swedes have influenced the Danes with their coaching and such.

What about Belarus? I'm sure the Russians had some influence over their style of play.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points or give me an education.

The point I'm trying to say is, what is up with these lower nations disrespectful fire for the better teams. You know it's in bad taste in people's mouths, what kind of respect do you think to gain from being so arrogant when you haven't even proven yourself yet.
 

Ribban

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May 16, 2005
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Personally, I think it's great that they celebrate their success and establish pride and faith in their programs/leagues. Sweden has "helped" (although I'm sure the coaches and players were paid well) both Denmark and Switzerland of sorts, but it is still the hokceymoms of Switzerland that got up early on the weekend to take their kiddos to the rink, bought the expensive gear, and paid the membership fees that allowed and made for the progress in Switzerland.

I'm not sure I understand what you would want from them other than their best game?
 

teme

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Well there is increased parity in hockey. You can actually see it in NHL too and it is not all salary cap. Players all over are just better trained, more skilled and above all teams are better coached, which makes talent level differences less important at the same that it is decreasing. The difference between say your average Swiss league and NHL player just keeps getting smaller, and more so for team performance on ice.

In international tournaments, all you really need to go far is a dedicated team sticking to their system, good goaltending and a great PP unit. Increasingly more nations can field that. Depth helps, but there are also tons of examples that it can be better to just have checkers in your checking lines rather than first line players converted to unfamiliar role.
 

zorz

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Mar 8, 2010
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Nothing to discuss, Czech Republic will remain always above the others:nod:
 

Jacksonbobson

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Feb 2, 2009
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Its really just an overreaction to the latest international tournament. The only way to really test a ranking in the world is in the olympics or a World championship with rosters close enough to that of an olympic one. If you look at any team besides Russia you notice that teams are missing more then just a few top players.
 

RedLeader

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Feb 13, 2008
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"The rest of the world is catching up" Well this one is true.. rest of the world is making progress. If they said they have caught up, that would be exaggerating.

I don't see the why you even care, fans of opposing teams will never give you proper respect and why should they grovel at the feet of the top4. In their shoes would you proclaim the greatness of Canada when some of their fans are talking about our Z team could beat your countries best even though their A,B,C teams has lost to Switzerland.

Every country has diehard fans who proclaim things that aren't truely objective. No reason for you to get butthurt when you are on the recieving end.
 

Hollywood Burrows

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Jan 23, 2009
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Showing respect to your opponents is not really part of being a sports fan. I'm not really sure what you're expecting.

Anyways, there's no way more international parity can be anything but good for hockey.
 

Acquizitor*

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I think its safe to say "hahaha" to such comments, especially from "c" countries like Swiss, Denmark, Norway.
I think its also safe to say that Canada and Russia will continue their overall hockey domination, with Swedes, USA, and maybe the Finns and the Czech showing prime play too occasionally.

However, imo, Canada and Russia have the brightest stars of the game. And I dont see a single reason why this trend cant continue
 

dfk711*

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I think you should add Finland to your list of elite nations, especially if you have USA on it
 

Acquizitor*

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sure, Finland is an elite nation, but not anywhere near the "big two".
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Countries like Switzerland and Denmark are certainly improving relative to the traditional hockey nations. That doesn't really mean all that much for now though, since the gap is so massive. It's easy to improve yourself as a hockey nation when you have basically no great players and very little depth. If they continue to improve at the same level relative to the big nations for several years, then that will be something of note, and also something that would be good for hockey.

As things stand now, this is how I see it with regard to depth of quality players
Canada

Russia,Sweden,USA

Czech Republic, Finland,
Slovakia

Switzerland

The only change in this order in recent years is that Czech Republic and Slovakia have fallen back while Switzerland has moved up slightly. Regarding the OP, I'm not quite sure that something like a Canadian influence on Swiss hockey or Swedish influence on Danish hockey takes anything away from their improvements. Improvement is improvement, regardless of why it's happened... and if fans from that country are overblowing it.
 

Like Wall

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May 2, 2006
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The little nations fans are starting to bother me. We have people from Switizerland, Denmark, Latvia and so on, that say things like this:

"Canada and Russia are no longer a force"
"The rest of the world is catching up"
"Hockey is growing and the elite are going to be no more"
"[insert country] is going to get become unstoppable in the future"

You'll never hear that from me. The Swiss team is a force to reckon with, so are ze Germanz. But smaller nations will have their ups and downs, without any guaranty for stability every single year.
 

slovakiasnextone

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Jul 7, 2008
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They can be quite annoying sometimes. Maybe they can stop with all this Switzerland is the next big nation now that the Czechs have made it to the semifinals with their C-D selection. I know that the Swiss are missing players as well, however the Czechs are missing around 18 (!) 25 years old and younger players who´ve played at least one NHL game this year. Let´s not even talk about the over 25 years old guys.
 

Oyabun

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Dec 29, 2009
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Yesterday and today, the pre-game comment section in Swedish tabloids was full of comments by Danes "In 10 years we will be better than you" :sarcasm: and stuff.

But what about the positive effect, Bäckman (Danish coach) was interviewed before the game and they asked about how big the game was for Denmark "I have heard that this match is expected to be viewed by around 600 000 danes, an average match has in the past had 50 000 viewers" he said. I haven't got a clue myself how many people tuned in but if he was in the ballpark then great for hockey and we will have to live with some people from minor nations having their heads in the clouds for a while.

And quite frankly, we could just as easily find equally Pejorative Slured comments on Youtube by Americans, Canadians, Swedes etc.
 

Ilyeu

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Jan 10, 2010
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I think you should add Finland to your list of elite nations, especially if you have USA on it
Look http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=25912333&postcount=61
My top four in this thread is based on that Finland hasn't won any important championship since 1995, it's focuses more on current champions.

Yesterday and today, the pre-game comment section in Swedish tabloids was full of comments by Danes "In 10 years we will be better than you" and stuff.
See, I'm right about this one.

And quite frankly, we could just as easily find equally Pejorative Slured comments on Youtube by Americans, Canadians, Swedes etc.
Youtube anyone can say anything. But most of these comments were coming from people who were expressing their real life statements with their real life identities. :snide:
 
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danishh

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Dec 9, 2006
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my take is that the big 4 will continue to exist for the forseeable future (assuming of course that sweden's new generation comes in as planned, but so far so good).

After that, there may not be that much separation.
- Finland's old generation is retiring. The new generation is not as good.
- Same deal with the czech republic
- Slovakia should last decently for another 4 year cycle with stars like chara and hossa still there, but there is a lack of young slovak talent - much more than the above two teams. Once this generation is done (first wave probably played their last tournament in vancouver), slovak hockey may be in trouble, depending only on a goalie.
- Switzerland, Germany and Denmark are producing more nhl draftees per year now. While not exact in any way, it is a decent indicator of the future strength of the top level mens team.


as for factors that have grown the sport in these countries:
- Switzerland has a massive canadian influence. over a quarter of their national team is canadian born, a large number of swiss league players are still canadian or canadian-born, and many coaches are canadian. Without the canadian influx, swiss hockey is nowhere close to where it is.

- i dont know much about denmark's program, but i believe top prospects often find their way to the SEL to develop. That is how the national team is being developed.

- Germany also has canadian influence, but to a much lower extent than in switzerland. Not exactly sure what has driven the growth there. Worth noting that many top german prospects make their way over to the CHL now.
 

Devils Mike*

Guest
I guess it's too radical to say that Europe is getting better, like that bunch of Swiss players that play in a so called "obsolete league" yet somehow played the best team in the world in the greatest league of them all and lost in a shootout...
 

Dolemite

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If the Olympic Tournament taught us anything is that many of the Countries took a HUGE step forward with their programs against the world's best.
 

TruGr1t

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Jun 26, 2003
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- Switzerland has a massive canadian influence. over a quarter of their national team is canadian born, a large number of swiss league players are still canadian or canadian-born, and many coaches are canadian. Without the canadian influx, swiss hockey is nowhere close to where it is.

This.

Switzerland basically imported Canadian hockey.
 

Nakawick

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Apr 5, 2010
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I am happy to see that Germany will play for a medal. I really hope that this tournament and result will help hockey in Germany. IMO, they have the best chance to become an "elite" hockey nation with their population. Switzerland has the tools already in place and will continue to get better. Hopefully Demark will continue to improve and countries Belarus, Norway and Latvia will keep improving as well and Finalnd, Czech Repulic and Slovakia will find their next generation of stars.
 

danishh

Registered User
Dec 9, 2006
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This.

Switzerland basically imported Canadian hockey.
i think putting it like that makes it a bit belittling. Canadian players and coaches have greatly helped swiss hockey, but all of the good young players are still swiss-born.
 

RandV

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Comments like these aren't much different than stuff we see on the regular NHL board, and have the same root problem. People make opinions based on what they see and stick to it, but don't take into account their ability to accurately interpret what they see, regardless of overall inteligence or hockey knowledge.
 
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