Rank The Prospect Dmen

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Lars, May 13, 2006.

  1. Lars

    Lars Registered User

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    In Terms Of NHL Potential

    Cam Barker
    Noah Welch
    Shea Weber
    Matt Carle
    A.J. Thelen
    Ladislav Smid
    Luc Bourdon
    Marc Staal
    Jack Johnson
    Mark Stuart
    Braydon Coburn
    Jakub Kindl
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  2. AnThGrt

    AnThGrt Registered User

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    Overal or in terms or NHL impact, Potential, Points
     
  3. Lars

    Lars Registered User

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    Sorry, In Terms Of NHL Potential or Value.
     
  4. Jack Johnson
    Matt Carle
    Shea Weber
    Cam Barker
    Ladislav Smid
    Marc Staal
    Luc Bourdon
    Braydon Coburn
    Noah Welch
    Mark Stuart
    A.J. Thelen
    Jakub Kindl

    Barker could either be the 2nd best or the 2nd worst, he was hard to rank.
     
  5. AnThGrt

    AnThGrt Registered User

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    Jack Johnson
    Matt Carle
    Shea Weber
    Marc Staal
    Ladislav Smid
    Cam Barker
    Luc Bourdon
    Noah Welch
    Jakub Kindl
    Braydon Coburn
    A.J. Thelen
    Mark Stuart

    I also agree with the Barker could be great or horrible. I put him in the middle for that reason.
     
  6. OrrNumber4

    OrrNumber4 Registered User

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    Good list

    Jack Johnson-Frachise defenseman who has great physical strength, good smarts, and good offensive instincts. I am really impressed with his physical strength. He doesn't have the height, but he has the muscle. He might be someone who hits his prime at age 26-27. Projection: Franchise player in the Chris Pronger-mold, but without the maturity problems. Is a much safer bet than Carle.

    Matt Carle-One of the most offensively gifted D-prospects in recent years. Could eventually lead all defensemen in points by a fair margin. Isn't a pure offensive defenseman as he is above-average defensively. Uses his smarts rather than his size and strength. Many defenseman prefer this method, but truly dominant ones have incredible strength along with offensive smarts. His calmness and natural vision are hard to match. He can confound the opposition with his brilliant playmaking, and he rarely makes a mistake with the puck. So far in his short NHL-career, he is using his good-but-not-great shot instead of his playmaking skills, probably on the order of Ron Wilson. Since he isn't blessed with a large frame, if he can mimick fellow bluechipper Jack Johnson and gain a physical edge, watch out NHL! Projection: If all goes well, a franchise defenseman in the Scott Niedermayer-, or even Niklas Lidstrom-mold. Could easily slip down a bit.

    Ladislav Smid- Duck fans know how much I like this guy. He has developed a bit of a mean streak which ups his potential a lot. Quite simply, he is good at everything. The average between Carle and Weberm Smid isn't as dynamite as Carle nor is he as strong as Weber, but he uses his size decently (could improve) and has great offensive instincts. Is a model "two-way" defenseman: a defenseman who perfectly balances offense and defense. A very smooth defenseman, he is slowly gaining a mental edge as well as confidence. Also should have a great instructor in Scott Niedermayer. Projection: #1 in the Mattis Ohlund-mold is a fair comparison. Is showing the signs of an even higher potential that would make him rise on this list.

    Shea Weber-A very physically gifted D-prospect. Isn't an offensive juggernaut, but is exceptionally strong. He has the positioning of a seasoned veteran, but could develop a bigger bag of tricks. Can out-hit or out-smart the opposition. Pretty good offensively, depending how things go, he could contribute 30-40 points a year while playing on the first PP- and PK-units. Can log big minutes. Is agressive, but is not stupidly so; he is incredibly calm with the puck. If not handled properly, he may never develop the offensive skills necessary for a #1 role. Projection: A less-agressive, poor man's Scott Stevens, or an offensively-talented Kyle McLaren. #1 defenseman. Might slip to #2.

    Luc Bourdon-Another solid defenseman who I think gets hyped up a bit too much. He is a safe bet to become a top four defenseman, which can be said about very few prospects. Bourdon forte is in the offensive zone. He could add some muscle, though he appears to have the perfect build for a two-way defenseman. He already has NHL-level endurance and stamina, which is a nod to his work ethic. Though he can hit hard, he needs to learn when to hit. Takes bad penalties some times. Offensively, Bourdon is pretty talented. He has a good first-pass, makes crisp passes in general, has a hard, low, shot, and can keep the puck in on the PP. However, he doesn't have the superb vision of the best offensive defenseman, nor is he as natural with the puck. He can't really take over a game, and he isn't as quick to manipulate his opponents. To be a franchise defenseman, such traits are a must. If Bourdon can smarten up and continue his development, a future as Vancouver's top defenseman isn't out of possibility. Admitedly, I never saw him at the Vancouver training camp, where he supposedly wowed spectators. Projection: probably, he will develop into a smoother, more-skilled Nick Boynton; a first-pairing defenseman.

    Marc Staal-I really like this talented defenseman. He could become a solid #1. Projection: #1 poor man's Brian Leetch. Could be slightly better or could drop slightly; is difficult to judge because of his rawness. His relative unproveness drops him on the list.

    Cam Barker-For a prospect taken third overall, Barker hasn't done enough. Usually top five-prospects should at the minimum make the NHL, and Barker is a gigantic question mark at this point. When he plays with effort, he is sickeningly good; better than Smid, Carle, and Bourdon. His offensive talents are on par with Carle. While he doesn't have as good vision, he has a better shot and is a better skater than Carle. His utilization of size to smother and grind his opponent is only second to Jack Johnson. Still, he isn't a "smart" player, and he needs to learn when to jump in the play. Is simply bad (or just lazy) defensively. Many people have questioned if Barker has the dedication and the mental strength to play in the NHL. Few prospects with his lack of intensity succeed in the NHL. I have seen the argument that Barker plays on a good team, and therefore doesn't feel the need to play well, but I don't know about that. Until he brings it every night, this prospect might join the ranks of draft busts.

    Mark Stuart- A guy who was a pretty solid pick considering he was taken 21st. Is a leader and motivator on the ice, who, amongst all these prospects, can anchor a defense the best. The others will score a lot, scare the opponents silly, and make big plays, but no one will quiet his team down and take charge like Stuart. This guy simply embarrassed other more-talented prospects with his level-headedness. His stabalizing prescence will be the key to a future Stanley Cup for whatever team Boston trades him to (I kid, I kid :)). Unfortunately, he just isn't as talented as some of the other defensemen. Projection: Consistent top-four defenseman. His intangibles and unique contributions boost his place on this list. Can't really think of a comparison, although Kimmo Timonen comes to mind.

    Noah Welch- I want to be in favor of him since he is an alumnus of my school, but he isn't really an elite prospect. Granted, he just recently turned pro, but his choice of Harvard, IMO a second-tier hockey school, may have adversely affected his development. He is a solid, solid, solid, solid defensive defenseman who seems to have lost his offensive flair. Primarly relies on his speed; he won't have that advantage at the NHL level. An extremely smart player, he has decent vision. He always makes the safe play and knows when to jump in, making him a very good transitional player. Also, he is an underrated stickhandler. But I fail to see this "dynamite" offensive player. He has evolved into more of a defensive defenseman; he clearly is much more committed to the defensive aspect of the game. Finally, he is using his 6'4 frame to shut down and knock out the opposition. He should gain about 25 lbs. of muscle to make him an even better hitter. Has the potential to develop into one of the best open-ice hitters. Is slowly developing a mean streak. Plays a very unique game. Projection: A future #3 who could slide up a notch. Is not as smart as, but is much stronger than Scott Hannan.

    Braydon Coburn-Solid defenseman, but his upside isn't quite up there with the rest of them. Steady as a rock, with great size, he is a solid defensive D-man. He needs to add 30 pounds of muscle to complement his 6'5/6 frame. It is too late for him to develop the mean streak and hitting abilities a defenseman of his size should have. While he could have been better, Coburn is still a solid shut-down defenseman; he is like Mike Rathje with less boneheadedness. Often players like him are essential in the playoffs. Could become as good as Adam Foote. Projection:#3-4. Should chip in about 20 points along with Mike Rathje-like play in his prime.

    Jakub Kindl-Poor positioning and weak mental concentration. Will take a longer time to make the NHL. Needs to add about 30-40 pounds. Plays with a physical edge and is decent defensively. Isn't a smart player, but has a good stride and is decent with the puck. Often seems to give up on a play too easily. Projection: wait and see. Considering Detroit drafted him, I wouldn't be surprised if he is some hidden gem.

    A.J. Thelen-Is he a defenseman again? Someone I had really touted as being good...Minnesota IMO didn't handle him properly. He has played poorly for Prince Albert. His play has leveled off significantly from his days with Michigan, where I saw him the most.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  7. Russian_fanatic

    Russian_fanatic Registered User

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    I agree with this list.
     
  8. Lars

    Lars Registered User

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    Wow, Excellent Piece There superroyain10, was a great read! :)
     
  9. Russian_fanatic

    Russian_fanatic Registered User

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    Very good comparisions, and good overall.

    I disagree with the Nick Boynton comparision for Bourdon though. He owns much higher offensive potential than Boynton. IMO his game is similiar to Rob Blake. Loves to hit, can log TONS of minutes, and owns a rocket of a shot from the point.
     
  10. how is green from the caps not on that list
     
  11. OrrNumber4

    OrrNumber4 Registered User

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    The original poster didn't want him to be involved in the comparison? Anyways, I'd probably put Greene ahead of Stuart. He's another guy who has a shot at the top pairing but most probably will carve a niche on the second pairing.
     
  12. Vman

    Vman Registered User

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    Jack Johnson
    Shea Weber
    Matt Carle
    Ladislav Smid
    Marc Staal
    Luc Bourdon
    Cam Barker
    Braydon Coburn
    Mark Stuart
    Noah Welch
    Jakub Kindl
    A.J. Thelen
     
  13. thestonedkoala

    thestonedkoala Everyone! PANIC!

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    Jesus Christ people. Read some stuff on AJ Thelen before writing him off. There is a reason he was a top 15 pick. He played on a bad team but logged a lot of minutes. Sure his +/- looked like crap but that's a given when you're team sucks.

    He's going to the Aeros next year, which should be a good showing of his skills.
     
  14. Lars

    Lars Registered User

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    Wow, I didn't know he was this high-heralded?
     
  15. Who should he be ahead of? most certainly not Carle, Johnson, Weber, Smid, Bourdon, and Staal. I guess he and Barker could fall into the same category, except Barker is better.
     
  16. clay

    clay Registered User

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    Johnson
    Smid
    Carle
    Bourdon
    Weber
    Staal
    Barker
    Kindl
    Coburn
    Thelen
    Stuart
    Welch
     
  17. CRUNK JUICE

    CRUNK JUICE Registered User

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    Jack Johnson
    Cam Barker
    Matt Carle
    Shea Weber
    Marc Staal
    Mark Stuart
    Ladislav Smid
    Noah Welch
    Luc Bourdon
    Braydon Coburn
    A.J. Thelen
    Jakub Kindl



    Really not sold on Coburn just yet. Maybe that'll change though.
     
  18. CRUNK JUICE

    CRUNK JUICE Registered User

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    Perhaps because the list maker only wanted to rank the defensemen he listed? And even if Green had been on there, he'd be near the bottom, IMO. Not really sold on his defensive game just yet.
     
  19. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

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    Kind of confused on how Matt Carle has the potential to be a Lidstrom-eque player. If all goes well? Carle's defensive game/positioning/strength/hockey sense would have to develop at a pace that is unrecognizable in hockey for him to be on par with Lidstrom or Neidermeyer.

    I think Carle has a very good chance of becoming a real good defenseman and there's a good chance he'll be a better defenseman than Weber/Johnson/etc. But I think we are going a little overboard with him based on his success since joining the Sharks during their red-hot streak. The Carle that I've seen has no chance of being a Lidstrom type player unless he develops beyond comprehension. And if we afford him that level of development, there aren't too many players on this list that can't be considered for "greatest defenseman of the new NHL."
     
  20. OrrNumber4

    OrrNumber4 Registered User

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    I say that because Carle has the smarts, vision, and poise that he needs to become like Niedermayer or Lidstrom. His hockey sense is already at an extremely accelerrated and high level, and he is improving his strength and positioning. Basically, he has all the things "you can't teach". With experience, I can see him becoming a Niedermayer-esque player. But the key thing is that he needs to develop in a place not known for developing offensive defenseman, and without a solid mentor. Also, he needs to add muscle without comprimising his speed; I wonder if his frame can afford that. With a little luck, he could develop into one of the best, like Lidstrom (who I'd consider better than Niedermayer).
     
  21. Gardebut30

    Gardebut30 Registered User

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    I think people have become a little too enamored with Carle in his short NHL career thus far. He deserves a lot of praise for the work he's shown in the playoffs and short stint during the regular season, but comparisons to Lidstrom and Niedermeyer are premature when he hasn't even played a full season yet. That's not to say he won't reach the likes of one of these two greats one day, but let's not get too carried away. A career isn't made in less than half a season, so let's give Carle some breathing room before he's smothered with such lofty comparisons.
     
  22. OrrNumber4

    OrrNumber4 Registered User

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    My judging of Carle actually comes from his time in college, not in his short NHL stint.
     
  23. Alberta Yote

    Alberta Yote Owns the Yotes

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    Carle, while a very, very good young defenseman, is quickly becoming one of HF's most overrated players. I hope he doesn't read this stuff or he won't be able to get his helmet on.
     
  24. OrrNumber4

    OrrNumber4 Registered User

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    Take a look at some of the prospect rankings at list. He is fairly unknown by many people too.
     
  25. Alberta Yote

    Alberta Yote Owns the Yotes

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    I'm not arguing his spot on that list as Johnson is the only one I would say is guaranteed to be better than Carle. I am just saying that calling him the next Lidstrom or Neids is WAY overrating him at this point.
     

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