Rangers vs. Sabres Sunday on NBC best thing for hockey?

[Crazy_Ike]

Everything changes over time. I'm not saying things will be different 5 years from now. But 50 years from no, who knows what the sports landscape will look like.

I can tell you that kids will still be playing football, baseball, and basketball on the streets in all the places who think "snow" is some sort of north state myth. Hockey? Not so much...

That's why hockey can never and will never really take a national footprint in the states, no matter what they do. They shouldn't even be trying.

 

[Jazz]

I can tell you that kids will still be playing football, baseball, and basketball on the streets in all the places who think "snow" is some sort of north state myth. Hockey? Not so much...

That's why hockey can never and will never really take a national footprint in the states, no matter what they do. They shouldn't even be trying.

Silly premise.

Snow is virtually a myth in Vancouver, but no problem with hockey interest here.

Dallas's youth program will ensure even more fans for the Stars in the years to come - no snow there either.

The entire point of expansion is to grow the business - the minute a business stops trying to grow it will die.

 

[Muttley*]

The first bold statement is beyond idiotic. You don't get a million people to go to a Stanley Cup parade down Broadway and many more to watch on TV if you don't have any fans. Can't say the same about parades held in parking lots, then, can I?

Why can't you NYR fans accept the fact that your team is not as popular as you think and want to believe?

And you shouldn't be making fun of "parking lot parades" either.

The television ratings are clearly horrible and it's obvious that New York City and the rest of the U.S. doesn't care about the NYR:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...-20_baseball_sticks_it_to_hockey_ratings.html

And it's a myth that the NHL was at it's "height" in 1994:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=346372

And besides, Emperor Salassie of Ethiopia got a million people for his ticker tape parade down Brodway in 1954. Every ticker tape parade down Broadway gets a million people! All people have to do is step out of their offices onto the street...and there's your million people. So much for the idea that ticker tape parades prove a teams popularity.

The Emperor addressed a joint session of Congress, a meeting of the United Nations, and the Canadian Parliament. Selassie was cheered by more than a million New Yorkers in a ticker tape parade down lower Broadway and was given honorary degrees by Howard University, Columbia University, McGill University, and the University of Michigan (he also visited Harvard and Princeton).

http://fp.okstate.edu/vestal/emperor/vestalpics4.htm

Sorry, but we know the Devils have a smaller fan base and lower television ratings than the NYR. Nobody is arguing against this.

But for an 81 year old original 6 team in the largest city and metropolitan area in North America, it's obvious that they have had little impact on the city and those ratings clearly indicate this.

 

[dave4]

Why can't you NYR fans accept the fact that your team is not as popular as you think and want to believe?

And you shouldn't be making fun of "parking lot parades" either.

The television ratings are clearly horrible and it's obvious that New York City and the rest of the U.S. doesn't care about the NYR:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...-20_baseball_sticks_it_to_hockey_ratings.html

And it's a myth that the NHL was at it's "height" in 1994:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=346372

And besides, Emperor Salassie of Ethiopia got a million people for his ticker tape parade down Brodway in 1954. Every ticker tape parade down Broadway gets a million people! All people have to do is step out of their offices onto the street...and there's your million people. So much for the idea that ticker tape parades prove a teams popularity.

The Emperor addressed a joint session of Congress, a meeting of the United Nations, and the Canadian Parliament. Selassie was cheered by more than a million New Yorkers in a ticker tape parade down lower Broadway and was given honorary degrees by Howard University, Columbia University, McGill University, and the University of Michigan (he also visited Harvard and Princeton).

http://fp.okstate.edu/vestal/emperor/vestalpics4.htm

Sorry, but we know the Devils have a smaller fan base and lower television ratings than the NYR. Nobody is arguing against this.

But for an 81 year old original 6 team in the largest city and metropolitan area in North America, it's obvious that they have had little impact on the city and those ratings clearly indicate this.

Obsess much?

One thing is for sure....YOU certainly care a lot about the Rangers!

 

[Muttley*]

Obsess much?

um, no

One thing is for sure....YOU certainly care a lot about the Rangers!

Not really sure what this means since this thread's subject is the recent Rangers/Sabres game.

Rather than crtiticize, just contribute to the topic at hand.

 

[Whiplash27]

Devils fans are always obsessed with the Rangers. I always wonder if they care more about the Rangers than their own team. I think it's jealousy that no one cares about their team (people/media) even after winning 3 cups in 8 years and that Rangers fans still view the Devils as a crap organization and actually respect the Islanders more than the Devils. Therefore, they try to go out of their way to try to take jabs at the Rangers.

Whenever I see the Rangers organization badmouthed it's always by Devils fans, rarely Flyers or Isles fans, always Devils. I think it says something. That's why I dislike Devils fans more than Isles and Flyers fans even though I hate those two teams more.

There are definitely many more Rangers fans than you see on the surface. Are there as many die-hard fans as we think? Probably not, however, 95% of new yorkers if you ask them which hockey team they like, they'll either say the Rangers or they'll say they don't like hockey. Lots of people I know say they don't like hockey but if they have to watch a team they pick'd the Rangers.

It's not a matter of "The Rangers don't have as many fans as we think" it's that hockey has no fans.

I remember as a kid no one I knew was a Rangers fan, then in '94 everyone I knew liked them. Heck I remember on the school bus kids were chanting "Let's Go Rangers!" I mean it just goes to show that hockey was definitely in the spotlight that year.

 

[Muttley*]

Devils fans are always obsessed with the Rangers. I always wonder if they care more about the Rangers than their own team.

Funny, but Devils fans say the the same thing about NYR fans. Islanders fans used to say that about NYR fans and vice-versa. That happens in every sport.

If you would have read the posts, you would see that it's not just Devils fans pointing out the horrible NYR television ratings.

I think it's jealousy that no one cares about their team (people/media) even after winning 3 cups in 8 years and that Rangers fans still view the Devils as a crap organization and actually respect the Islanders more than the Devils.

For a team based in Northern New Jersey that doesn't have the words "New York" in front of their team name, they get plenty of attention. They are also getting a new building, so apparently there are enough people that care. Not the most, but enough.

It's very subjective, but I look at the NYR organization as being "crap", especially Neil Smith's & Glen Sather's draft record and the product they have put on the ice for all or most of their tenure. It doesn't help that their national television ratings have no effect on the popularity of the NHL in the U.S. either.

Therefore, they try to go out of their way to try to take jabs at the Rangers.

Going out of the way??? Did you even read the posts in this thead by fans of other NHL teams and see the poor television ratings for games featuring the NYR?

Whenever I see the Rangers organization badmouthed it's always by Devils fans, rarely Flyers or Isles fans, always Devils.

I know many Flyers fans & Islanders fans who haven't given up badmouthing the NYR.

Besides, NYR fans have been badmouthing the Devils organization since 1982.

I think it says something. That's why I dislike Devils fans more than Isles and Flyers fans even though I hate those two teams more.

What this has to do with television ratings, I have no idea...

There are definitely many more Rangers fans than you see on the surface.

We know there are more NYR fans than Devils fans. That's not the issue and nobody is debating this.

But if you would have looked at the television ratings, the NYR are clearly irrelevant in the New York and national sport scene.

Are there as many die-hard fans as we think? Probably not, however, 95% of new yorkers if you ask them which hockey team they like, they'll either say the Rangers or they'll say they don't like hockey. Lots of people I know say they don't like hockey but if they have to watch a team they pick'd the Rangers.

Huh? If your 95% rule was true, the NYR almost certainly would have Yankees & Mets type of television ratings.

It's not a matter of "The Rangers don't have as many fans as we think" it's that hockey has no fans.

We know tha. At least in the U.S. That's the whole issue of this thread.

I remember as a kid no one I knew was a Rangers fan, then in '94 everyone I knew liked them. Heck I remember on the school bus kids were chanting "Let's Go Rangers!" I mean it just goes to show that hockey was definitely in the spotlight that year.

Nobody is denying this. When New York teams win Championships, they garner much attention.

The NYR were fortunate enough to win during a a 16-year lull in the New York sports scene that saw only 2 Super Bowl Championships by the Giants and 1 baseball World Series Championship by the Mets. The Yankees and Mets were horrible in 1994 which is why the NYR and Knicks owned the sports scene in New York in the early to mid 1990's.

Just look at last nights sports news in New York: Philip Hughes' injury and near no-
hitter had as much attention as the NYR win over Buffalo. More people talked about Hughes and the Yankees misfortunes today on both sports talk radio stations in New York.

 

[Whiplash27]

Huh? If your 95% rule was true, the NYR almost certainly would have Yankees & Mets type of television ratings.

Not necessarily. As I said most either are Rangers fans or don't like hockey. I'd say the majority don't like hockey and that's where the fault lies. However, when you ask that majority who doesn't like hockey which team they would root for it would be the Rangers, not the Devils or Islanders.

I didn't say Isles or Flyers fans don't heckle Rangers fans. However, they do it when an opportunity presents itself. Devils fans do it whenever they can in order to defend themselves even when no one is attacking them. They'll bring up stuff out of the blue as long as there is a thread of anything that can connect it towards bashing the Rangers.

However, if you look, the Rangers games rate better than teams like Pittsburgh and Detroit. So are you trying to tell me that Detroit and Pittsburgh have no fans either?

especially Neil Smith's & Glen Sather's draft record

Last I checked we have a much better prospect pool than the Devils by a mile and a half.
http://hockeysfuture.com/nhl_organisation_rankings/
http://stats.theahl.com/stats/statd...n_id=10&&leagueId=4&lastActive=&singleSeason=
check it out

I won't argue that our ownership sucks. However, Sather took over a mess in every way possible from the prospect pool on up through the NHL team and him and Maloney righted the ship pretty well I must say.

That also said, many people view hockey as a joke of a sport or they would rather watch other sports (NBA Playoffs, NASCAR, etc.). That's why it gets no attention. Not because no one likes NYR. Plus sports viewership as a whole has decreased. In addition, hockey games are hard to find on most days (versus) or get no promotion (when on NBC). I mean who knows when hockey games are on besides hockey fans? I've never seen an advertisement for the NHL on NBC. I doubt you even see it during other NBC programs.

Also, the people in the New York area are all about hype. The Yankees playoffs are hyped so that's why everyone starts watching when they make the playoffs. I bet you their ratings aren't that great during the season except when they play Boston.

Rangers have sucked for 7 years and last year they self-destructed before the playoffs. This year is our first good season in 10 years, of course the ratings suck. The Devils grabbed a lot of new fans between 1998 and 2004 because they were winning and the Rangers sucked. However, hockey as a whole hasn't gained many fans in the tri-state area since the mid-90s to begin with and that's largely due to the Rangers not winning. Lots of casual fans also gave up on watching a team that couldn't make the playoffs for 7 seasons.

Rangers make it to the conference finals you'll see rating shoot up.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

Probably not, however, 95% of new yorkers if you ask them which hockey team they like, they'll either say the Rangers or they'll say they don't like hockey.

The more relevant question for this discussion, though, is what percentage of people in the market fall into that latter category... not liking (or just not caring about) hockey. Unfortunately, as the ratings suggest, it's probably well over 90%.

 

[Whiplash27]

Well I think it probably is (probably majority don't care about it rather than hate it), but when the playoffs come around there is a general interest throughout the city. On game day if you walk around the city with Jerseys and stuff you will see people who aren't dressed in Rangers stuff just yelling Let's Go Rangers! to you and when the games end they ask you who won and stuff.

So I think there is a general interest there. Its just a matter of how many actually watch the games rather than just being curious about the local team or jumping on the bandwagon for the party.

 

[dave4]

Devils fans are always obsessed with the Rangers. I always wonder if they care more about the Rangers than their own team. I think it's jealousy that no one cares about their team (people/media) even after winning 3 cups in 8 years and that Rangers fans still view the Devils as a crap organization and actually respect the Islanders more than the Devils. Therefore, they try to go out of their way to try to take jabs at the Rangers.

Whenever I see the Rangers organization badmouthed it's always by Devils fans, rarely Flyers or Isles fans, always Devils. I think it says something. That's why I dislike Devils fans more than Isles and Flyers fans even though I hate those two teams more.

There are definitely many more Rangers fans than you see on the surface. Are there as many die-hard fans as we think? Probably not, however, 95% of new yorkers if you ask them which hockey team they like, they'll either say the Rangers or they'll say they don't like hockey. Lots of people I know say they don't like hockey but if they have to watch a team they pick'd the Rangers.

It's not a matter of "The Rangers don't have as many fans as we think" it's that hockey has no fans.

I remember as a kid no one I knew was a Rangers fan, then in '94 everyone I knew liked them. Heck I remember on the school bus kids were chanting "Let's Go Rangers!" I mean it just goes to show that hockey was definitely in the spotlight that year.

Dude don't get caught up in this guy's perverse reasoning about why nobody anywhere cares about the Rangers, which somehow makes him feel like the Devils more important or something. The mere fact that he posted about the Rangers DURING the biggest Devils playoff game of the season so far, says it all.

How ironic is it that the guy who says nobody cares about the Rangers cares about them so much he was more worried about the Rangers than the Devils last night?

As has been said many times, statistics can say anything you want, and this guy will go around looking for any statistic or quote that proves his bizarre point that nobody in Manhattan even knows the Rangers are in the playoffs right now. And ignore any statistic or quote that suggests otherwise. If you or I had the time or inclination we could find numerous statistics or quotes that prove just how irrelevant the New Jersey team is, with playoff non-sellouts being at the top of a very long list.

The fact that like countless fans I was shutout of playoff tickets because they were all gone in a matter of minutes, means the Rangers are actually a little more popular than I'd like them to be!

You won't see any Ranger fans posting about the Devils DURING a Ranger playoff game, that's for sure! Wow that one took the cake.

So let this guy ramble about poor overall hockey ratings, and attempt to tie that into his philosophy that nobody cares about the Rangers. Just point out the ridiculousness of certain things, like his post last night...it probably came right after the Devils were scored on, so he needed to vent somehow.

The person (was it you?) who said you never see Islander fans rant about the Rangers popularity was so right. You'll see a lot of venom coming from Islander territory, but it's usually about what happens on the ice or what a player or coach (or Ice Girl) says. For some reason Islander fans don't seem to have the inferioriy complex that Devil fans do...an inferiority complex that leads certain Devil fans to attack the Rangers fanbase.

We all know the Ranger run can easily end in two more games, but the fact that for the first time in ten years the Rangers are the hockey story in Springtime instead of the Devils is making some Devil fans' heads explode, and as a result it makes them feel the need to attack Ranger popularity.

As most Ranger fans say when the subject of the Devils comes up, especially their fans.....whatever.

 

[Sotnos]

Well, at least you're not the only ones being picked on by Devils fans.

 

[Snap Wilson]

I have to agree with ESPNs Hradek

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=hradek_ej&id=2853685

The NHL got a perfect situation (other than having Crosby play the Rangers). On Sunday 2pm NBC they were able to get the Sabres, who have the best local TV and probably area following ratings wise with the New York Rangers. To top it off the game ran 2 OTs which draws attention and it ran over the 2 hour Barbaro special so random people probably latched onto and watched the finish. To top it off the Rangers won so alot of casual fans might have latched on as well.

I will be very interested to see the national rating. Anyone thing a 1.5-2.0 is possible?

A friend of mine who works for NBC disputes this on just about every account. First, Buffalo's local ratings really don't mean much to NBC. Second, multiple-overtime games aren't network friendly, since it's added expense without any additional revenue (it's not like sponsors have to pay extra because there's more game). Third, the pre-empting of Barbaro, as much as we might have enjoyed it, was an absolute disaster from NBC's perspective. They put a good amount of money into putting that documentary together, and the sponsorship rate for it (which was much higher than the NHL's) had to be reduced when it aired on CNBC.

Fourth, he said that the prospect of a Buffalo-Ottawa conference final, which would be great from a hockey fan's perspective (I'd Tivo every game), is a ratings nightmare.

NBC's contract runs out at the end of next year, and right now, they have no intention of renewing it. They're cutting down to one national game per week next year, with no regional broadcasts, in an effort to cut expenses. There may not be a studio show, either (although they're very happy with the current one).

I wouldn't be surprised if next year is the NHL's final year on network television, for the foreseeable future.

 

[Whiplash27]

I wouldn't mind it too much. I'd rather watch playoff games on my local network (MSG). I can't stand having to watch NBC and Versus all the time.

 

[dave4]

Well, at least you're not the only ones being picked on by Devils fans.

Yeah but guess who jumped into that thread and started bashing the Rangers?

He probably had nothing else to do....maybe there was a Devil playoff game on.

 

[Snap Wilson]

I wouldn't mind it too much. I'd rather watch playoff games on my local network (MSG). I can't stand having to watch NBC and Versus all the time.

As long as there are regional broadcasts (and Center Ice), I'm happy. It may wind up coming down to that.

 

[Whiplash27]

IDK, I think Versus is here to stay.

 

[Snap Wilson]

IDK, I think Versus is here to stay.

I don't know. The ratings are pretty dismal, and you may have noticed that they've cut back a significant amount on their hockey programming as well. They're trying to advertise other programming, like the freaking America's Cup to their NHL audiences. I don't know if that's bad or good, actually.

I'm sure the NHL will have a cable presence somewhere.

 

[Whiplash27]

The problem is, without a major sport Versus will have absolutely no credability if they wish to compete with ESPN. With as little credability that the NHL has, it means more to have an actual sport and cover it well than to have nothing. You know they eventually will try to get the NBA and probably MLB if they can, so having hockey and showing they can do it is probably important to them.

 

[Muttley*]

I don't know. The ratings are pretty dismal, and you may have noticed that they've cut back a significant amount on their hockey programming as well. They're trying to advertise other programming, like the freaking America's Cup to their NHL audiences. I don't know if that's bad or good, actually.

I'm sure the NHL will have a cable presence somewhere.

Yep, that's the point. The ratings are what drives them to continue broadcasting the NHL. And thus far, the NHL ratings have been dismal.

 

[Limey FK]

A friend of mine who works for NBC disputes this on just about every account. First, Buffalo's local ratings really don't mean much to NBC. Second, multiple-overtime games aren't network friendly, since it's added expense without any additional revenue (it's not like sponsors have to pay extra because there's more game). Third, the pre-empting of Barbaro, as much as we might have enjoyed it, was an absolute disaster from NBC's perspective. They put a good amount of money into putting that documentary together, and the sponsorship rate for it (which was much higher than the NHL's) had to be reduced when it aired on CNBC.

Fourth, he said that the prospect of a Buffalo-Ottawa conference final, which would be great from a hockey fan's perspective (I'd Tivo every game), is a ratings nightmare.

NBC's contract runs out at the end of next year, and right now, they have no intention of renewing it. They're cutting down to one national game per week next year, with no regional broadcasts, in an effort to cut expenses. There may not be a studio show, either (although they're very happy with the current one).

I wouldn't be surprised if next year is the NHL's final year on network television, for the foreseeable future.

Ouch! That would be extremely unfortunate. I for one, love NBC's coverage and production of hockey. Furthermore, as a DirecTV subscriber in Philadelphia (no CSN), it's the only guaranteed HD hockey games I get.

This is definately worth keeping an eye on and I hope something turns the tide here in the next year.

Edit: Wouldn't NBC have known what it was getting into when they began the deal with the NHL? The ratings and so forth aren't drastically different from where they were pre-NBC.

 

[kdb209]

Yep, that's the point. The ratings are what drives them to continue broadcasting the NHL. And thus far, the NHL ratings have been dismal.

Except that those "dismal" ratings are significantly higher than their other programming on VS. By all accounts VS is quite happy with the deal. They have exercised their option for next season and stated that they plan to exercise their options for the following three years.