Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Capitals 7pm

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AlexBrovechkin8

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NO-SKILL WILLY

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Langway

In den Wolken
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Is that your begrudging version of "I like this team"?? Lol...
Eh. It's certainly night & day in terms of entertainment value when they're feeling it. As with basically every other season, it's about maintaining the right perspective and keeping an even keel while trying to add further substance/layers to their game. When they're engaged and confident they can play with anyone but they can always stand to add more poise and playmaking within that engagement.

I don't know if Orpik/Djoos/Bowey ultimately gets them far enough either but for now it's mainly about the experience and gaining confidence.
 
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Capsman

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Nov 21, 2008
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Not to be a party pooper but looking at Wilson’s goal again I realized that the acceleration and speed was great but the shot itself was a little bit lucky. It looks like he lost the puck trying to go to his backhand and it slid under Lundquist. I’d like to see his hands develop some, but overall he’s showing me a lot. Maybe cutting back on the goonery is allowing me to see it.
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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Not to be a party pooper but looking at Wilson’s goal again I realized that the acceleration and speed was great but the shot itself was a little bit lucky. It looks like he lost the puck trying to go to his backhand and it slid under Lundquist. I’d like to see his hands develop some, but overall he’s showing me a lot. Maybe cutting back on the goonery is allowing me to see it.

It was a nice defensive play that caused him to lose the puck. I think he scores it either way. And...where has he cut back on the goonery. If by that you mean hitting players and getting challenged and standing for his teammates, I don't think that has slowed down at all.

Edit: Checked the stats page. Wilson had 9 major penalties last season. He has 6 already this season. He is 4th in the league in PIMs. I think it was last season where he cut the goonery down because he was on the PK and Trotz didn't want him in the box.
 
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g00n

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Eh. It's certainly night & day in terms of entertainment value when they're feeling it. As with basically every other season, it's about maintaining the right perspective and keeping an even keel while trying to add further substance/layers to their game. When they're engaged and confident they can play with anyone but they can always stand to add more poise and playmaking within that engagement.

I don't know if Orpik/Djoos/Bowey ultimately gets them far enough either but for now it's mainly about the experience and gaining confidence.

Mostly agree with a "yeah but" for the bold. IMO this is a squad that feeds off of momentum and needs an almost superstitious level of good vibes not only to play their best but to avoid choking. I don't want to see them on an even keel because that's too close to the downside, and someone can maintain poise while being blown out 8-0.

I want to see them UP for every game and engaged in every period. You don't do that by trying hard to fight yourself and your emotions 24/7, you do it by dividing the big task into smaller, more manageable ones. Cut the season up into little chunks like road trips and home stands. Then games, then periods, then shifts, then the little personal battles of doing things the best you can. Keep the focus narrow and keep your mind off of the bigger picture (like winning or losing the game/series/cup). In addition to practice this is how you focus on the process and that's the way to unlock your greatest potential.

As for the game and their recent play it's great to see. This is what we like to watch. But it's early-mid December. We've seen this show before. Remember snowmageddon? In a few weeks we could be scratching our heads and in a panic over the lines. We're not the Habs of the 70s or the Isles or Oilers of the 80s. We're not going to destroy everything in our path. But we do have the POTENTIAL to play at a very high level. The only question is whether or not Trotz and Co. have figured out how to tap into it when it matters most.


btw Wilson's new nickname .... Taz
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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Not to be a party pooper but looking at Wilson’s goal again I realized that the acceleration and speed was great but the shot itself was a little bit lucky. It looks like he lost the puck trying to go to his backhand and it slid under Lundquist. I’d like to see his hands develop some, but overall he’s showing me a lot. Maybe cutting back on the goonery is allowing me to see it.

He blew around a legitimate top pair defenseman in Ryan McD with the game on the line and that's what you're focused on?
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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So...when does the president of the Tom Wilson fanboy club finally get to gloat a little bit? Lol

time to break out the old "TW punching a Schenn" avatar
 

trick9

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Jun 2, 2013
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20, 25 and 43 playing their best hockey of their careers. Ages 28, 25, and 23.

I don't think Ovechkin has looked this good since early 2010. He's moving his feet and handles the puck like he did in his younger days. If someone wants to dig up stats they will find better stretch than 20 goals in 30 games since then but eye test tells me he has been even better now.
 
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maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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Not to be a party pooper but looking at Wilson’s goal again I realized that the acceleration and speed was great but the shot itself was a little bit lucky. It looks like he lost the puck trying to go to his backhand and it slid under Lundquist. I’d like to see his hands develop some, but overall he’s showing me a lot. Maybe cutting back on the goonery is allowing me to see it.
Already knew that. The puck might have even touched Mcdonaughs stick last.
 

Langway

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Jul 7, 2006
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Mostly agree with a "yeah but" for the bold. IMO this is a squad that feeds off of momentum and needs an almost superstitious level of good vibes not only to play their best but to avoid choking. I don't want to see them on an even keel because that's too close to the downside, and someone can maintain poise while being blown out 8-0.
I think we're mostly on the same page. It's not that they need to be on a total even keel, as if that's devoid of emotion entirely, but that they need to transcend beyond total faith in exuberance being almost inherently what makes them successful. It's a key ingredient but it's still primarily about the plays being made with that energy level and how best to apply it to maximize efficiency. A belief in an almost maniacal effort level distracts from efficiency and the process when left on its own devices. Their current style/approach is successful but it's been shown to have its limits and I don't really expect that to change unless the secondary pieces become way more routinely impactful and continue to develop in some crucial areas beyond one-on-one battles and defensive play. We know Djoos has more to offer offensively. I'll be interested in seeing just how confident he can become. Burakovsky has a way to go to fully be at the top of his game. And so on.

It's less about pacing themselves than continuing to adhere to a higher standard, staying hungry and continuing to be open about maximizing their game within the game. It's about maintaining the intensity but also being able to review it and be progressively more cerebral in how manifests. There's maybe some danger in complicating or harshing their mania but it's also been fairly proven that their mania under pressure can and does tend to lead to these brutal breakdowns and lapses. It's entertaining but I'm not sure it's either sustainable as a way of being successful or that it necessarily translates tremendously well in general when other teams more routinely elevate their respective games.

The key is always that elusive balance. It's not being fixated on the bigger picture but understanding their objectives and how best to prepare and execute every day so that it's increasingly in their grasp. It's mostly about continuing to redefine what max effort is for them. It should always be a shifting goalpost.
 

Devil Dancer

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Jan 21, 2006
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I don't think Ovechkin has looked this good since early 2010. He's moving his feet and handles the puck like he did in his younger days. If someone wants to dig up stats they will find better stretch than 20 goals in 30 games since then but eye test tells me he has been even better now.

That hasn't been the case all season. For the first few weeks he was doing his old lazy board play and fumbling pucks. Something about this new first line has him energized though.
 

maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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Mostly agree with a "yeah but" for the bold. IMO this is a squad that feeds off of momentum and needs an almost superstitious level of good vibes not only to play their best but to avoid choking. I don't want to see them on an even keel because that's too close to the downside, and someone can maintain poise while being blown out 8-0.


Mostly agree with a "yeah but" for the bold. IMO this is a squad that feeds off of momentum and needs an almost superstitious level of good vibes not only to play their best but to avoid choking. I don't want to see them on an even keel because that's too close to the downside, and someone can maintain poise while being blown out 8-0.

I want to see them UP for every game and engaged in every period. You don't do that by trying hard to fight yourself and your emotions 24/7, you do it by dividing the big task into smaller, more manageable ones. Cut the season up into little chunks like road trips and home stands. Then games, then periods, then shifts, then the little personal battles of doing things the best you can. Keep the focus narrow and keep your mind off of the bigger picture (like winning or losing the game/series/cup). In addition to practice this is how you focus on the process and that's the way to unlock your greatest potential.

As for the game and their recent play it's great to see. This is what we like to watch. But it's early-mid December. We've seen this show before. Remember snowmageddon? In a few weeks we could be scratching our heads and in a panic over the lines. We're not the Habs of the 70s or the Isles or Oilers of the 80s. We're not going to destroy everything in our path. But we do have the POTENTIAL to play at a very high level. The only question is whether or not Trotz and Co. have figured out how to tap into it when it matters most.


btw Wilson's new nickname .... Taz
 

Ridley Simon

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Feb 27, 2002
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Like I always said: Tom Wilson is a top line winger and getting him locked in at $2.0M was an absolute steal. :sarcasm:

For real this line needs to stay together. They are clicking so well.

twabby praising Wilson. I think that's the 7th sign of the apocolypse??

What's next? A thread from you talking how how valuable Orpik is due to his intangibles?:sarcasm:

Well Done, twabs
 
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g00n

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I think we're mostly on the same page. It's not that they need to be on a total even keel, as if that's devoid of emotion entirely, but that they need to transcend beyond total faith in exuberance being almost inherently what makes them successful. It's a key ingredient but it's still primarily about the plays being made with that energy level and how best to apply it to maximize efficiency. A belief in an almost maniacal effort level distracts from efficiency and the process when left on its own devices. Their current style/approach is successful but it's been shown to have its limits and I don't really expect that to change unless the secondary pieces become way more routinely impactful and continue to develop in some crucial areas beyond one-on-one battles and defensive play. We know Djoos has more to offer offensively. I'll be interested in seeing just how confident he can become. Burakovsky has a way to go to fully be at the top of his game. And so on.

It's less about pacing themselves than continuing to adhere to a higher standard, staying hungry and continuing to be open about maximizing their game within the game. It's about maintaining the intensity but also being able to review it and be progressively more cerebral in how manifests. There's maybe some danger in complicating or harshing their mania but it's also been fairly proven that their mania under pressure can and does tend to lead to these brutal breakdowns and lapses. It's entertaining but I'm not sure it's either sustainable as a way of being successful or that it necessarily translates tremendously well in general when other teams more routinely elevate their respective games.

The key is always that elusive balance. It's not being fixated on the bigger picture but understanding their objectives and how best to prepare and execute every day so that it's increasingly in their grasp. It's mostly about continuing to redefine what max effort is for them. It should always be a shifting goalpost.

Regarding the mania (which I assume is just "max effort is the only answer" as a philosophy) I think energy is important as is commitment to the task at hand. I don't see the mania as what kills them unless it's a case of someone like Orpik taking a stupid penalty or two in a critical playoff game....

IMO their fatal flaw in the Ovechkin era has been to float around and wait for Ovie to save the day. And when Ovie is just too beat up and won't admit it (never break) then you have an entire team that just goes through the motions while Ovechkin tries unsuccessfully to skate through four players. All you have left at that point is the PP and prayers for your goaltender.

So I get what you're saying about it being about more than effort but I do want to see mania from the rest of the squad. I want to see fervent commitment to the game itself and the task in front of them. I don't want to see guys afraid of making a mistake. That leads to overpassing and split second delays in critical reactions. Or players standing around watching plays.

A bit too much is better than not enough. And when you play other teams who are coasting a little it can make a big difference...in the regular season. In the playoffs most teams have that extra bit of jump. THAT is when your more cerebral approach to some things factors in the most. THAT is where good coaching and preparation becomes the deciding factor. How you train is how you'll play. When you've grooved the right things you can step on the accelerator a bit more and that's what pushes you over the edge in the postseason.
 

Ridley Simon

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Where is Randy? He must have enjoyed the last few games. A bunch of backhand goals, and Wilson on top line. He's been screaming for those for a few years.

You must mention a conspiracy to get Randy Holt to materialize. That's his Bat Signal. Like this:

Is it possible that Trotz was holding back his "scheming" and "teach ability" on the last 2 years squads because it was by far the most veteran laiden team he'd had, and he didn't know how to deal with it? Now he's got a bunch of kids to work with and he is more comfortable with that and thusly showing more as a coach??? Was Trotz holding back the last 2 years?????

**alert** I don't believe that, but it's good bait for Randy Holt
 
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maacoshark

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You must mention a conspiracy to get Randy Holt to materialize. That's his Bat Signal. Like this:

Is it possible that Trotz was holding back his "scheming" and "teach ability" on the last 2 years squads because it was by far the most veteran laiden team he'd had, and he didn't know how to deal with it? Now he's got a bunch of kids to work with and he is more comfortable with that and thusly showing more as a coach??? Was Trotz holding back the last 2 years?????

**alert** I don't believe that, but it's good bait for Randy Holt
Why are you trying to bait this guy?
 

ovikovy817

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May 23, 2015
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Just finished to watch the last 2 periods.
What a game again for Tommy. 2 big games against originial 6 teams, with a lot of people watching those games, that's good for him.
KS22 with a -3. Good.
Too bad that Ovi didn't score on the EN.

I think the Caps have never lost when he scores but cant confirm

I've found an article from 2016, with that record 27-1-5
so right now, they should be at something like 3x-1-5


______

So, in the LAK GDT I've said that we start another important stretch (5 home games stand)
And we were 4-1-0 during that strecth.
Losing only to a western conferene team, and giving 0 points to metro division teams.

With the other previous important stretch (9 games) we are now
10-4-0 in the last 14 games, losing only to western conference teams.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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May 2, 2013
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You must mention a conspiracy to get Randy Holt to materialize. That's his Bat Signal. Like this:

Is it possible that Trotz was holding back his "scheming" and "teach ability" on the last 2 years squads because it was by far the most veteran laiden team he'd had, and he didn't know how to deal with it? Now he's got a bunch of kids to work with and he is more comfortable with that and thusly showing more as a coach??? Was Trotz holding back the last 2 years?????

**alert** I don't believe that, but it's good bait for Randy Holt

You know you can just summon him like this?

@RandyHolt
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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Regarding the mania (which I assume is just "max effort is the only answer" as a philosophy) I think energy is important as is commitment to the task at hand. I don't see the mania as what kills them unless it's a case of someone like Orpik taking a stupid penalty or two in a critical playoff game....
Which he has done to the point of suspension previously. Over-engagement to the point of lack of discipline has been pretty costly under Trotz. Frustration due to max effort not paying off as immediately as they'd like has been another problem. Trying to do too much and getting on the wrong side of the puck have been other signs of that lack of balance. They need to be wary of the balance of intensity, structure/discipline, urgency and patience. Maybe a different cast, some younger and improving, changes things. We'll see but I don't tend to think just doing what they've done the past few seasons is enough. They need buy-in and confidence but also the mental toughness, openness and commitment to not just think they've figured it all out due to regular season outcomes.

Trotz needs to crack the whip and get on them that the only way killer instinct is forged is to be unsparing and accountable beyond end results. Or else it's likely to be too one-dimensional...just keep them to the outside, stay disciplined and see if they stray. And they have. A big part of it is focusing more and more on the dirty areas at both ends. Making it more of a priority to be an increasingly interior attacking team will be important if secondary scoring isn't to dry up again. That way they're not just focused on letting their skill come to the forefront thanks to defensive structure and feel/engagement but applying it at times in a manner more likely to translate in the playoffs. It's a fine line between straying from what comes natural and expanding their game but they need to better cash in on their confidence to develop an increasingly scrappy style while retaining what already do well naturally. I'm not sure Trotz has that level of vision or that the style of the personnel is ideally suited to just do it themselves. Top Line Tom may offer some much-needed grease but I'm still not sure about the rest. It's a decent strength in Vrana's game and arguably what separates him from Burakovsky IMO in being a better scoring-line fit for the top six. And, of course, a similar scrappiness needs to become part of the games of Bowey and Djoos. I don't expect much from Djoos in that area but stick/body position is a key part of doing it in a more finesse manner.
In the playoffs most teams have that extra bit of jump. THAT is when your more cerebral approach to some things factors in the most. THAT is where good coaching and preparation becomes the deciding factor. How you train is how you'll play. When you've grooved the right things you can step on the accelerator a bit more and that's what pushes you over the edge in the postseason.
I guess I'm mainly not sure they're grooving the right things mentally. The track record suggests not but maybe that's too extreme. They've been close but they need to avoid getting too complacent. Complacency within their typical buy-in has been the main underlying issue IMO. Better luck could help but focusing on becoming increasingly intelligent and situationally adept is the sort of groundedness they need. That way their applied effort has more depth.
 

maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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Not at all. I love Randy Holt. He's been on here a long time and he knows I call him our Conspiracy Guy. It's all tongue in cheek, and in good fun.

Randy's posts are always fun to read--
Can't wait to read some of them. Don't recall seeing him here.
 
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