Rangers Are Statistically a "Bad" Team

[haveandare]

We're pretty much the only team in the division without our own top 5, let alone top 10 pick on the roster.

This is what you get when you actually try to be competitive every year.

Plenty of teams that have made the bottom of the standings home for years have a lot of their own picks. That's not a meaningful way to evaluate a team imo.

 

[haveandare]

The Rangers have been a bad team for much of this year, but the OP is way off on a lot of details about why imo.

First of all, saying any of these guys "can't defend" is misguided, it'd be more accurate to say that they look bad in this man defense system, which they absolutely do. Take Girardi for example - was horrendous under AV playing man, now is pretty passable if not more in TB playing a simpler system and getting the minutes he should. I firmly believe that NYR needs to fire AV and get a simpler defensive system that actually plays to what they have before any serious judgements about any d-man can be made.

For the offense, offenses with many if not most of the same players have taken NYR to the finals and the the ECF. To say they don't have the pieces to have a good offense is misguided imo. A good example of how this estimation is off is in the idea that Zucc would be the Isles' 4th or 5th best forward. Taking a team having a hot season and a single player from a team having a cold season is a setup for a poor comparison. If you go back to the last full year everyone played, Zucc outscored every single player on the Isles except Tavares who beat him by 7. Compare Zucc to a guy like Bailey who I assume is one of those 3 or 4 players OP thinks is superior to Zucc - Bailey, who is 28, is now having his first season where he is superior to Zucc in scoring. Is it accurate to say Bailey all of a sudden at 28 years old has become a consistent 65-70ish point player he'll be this year, or to say this year he's having a great year and he's really more like the 40-50ish point player he's been for the previous nine seasons including the years that are typically peak scoring years for NHL forwards?

NYR forwards are always, always, underrated on here for whatever reason. Look at how much guys like Zucc or Kreider scored last year, then look at who they're ahead of or even with - the other guys are players people on here absolutely fawn over while Zucc and Kreider "not good enough to be main pieces" or some such garbage.

NYR are bad this year, but the sweeping conclusions about many of the players are way off imo. They need a new coach as badly as any team ever has. You can argue that AV is or isn't or was or wasn't good all day, but the fact is at this point he's absolutely outlasted his peak with NYR and it's absolutely time for someone new.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

We're pretty much the only team in the division without our own top 5, let alone top 10 pick on the roster.

This is what you get when you actually try to be competitive every year.

I also prefer having a high pick than making it to the Stanley Cup finals.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Statistically and.......

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The Flyers have tried to be competitive every year. Last year they were slotted to pick 13th and got lucky. Hockey gods rewarded them for getting screwed in 07.

I agree with your take though. Except the part where you suggested the Flyers have tanked like all the other teams. Was never the case.

Relax. He didn't even mention the Flyers and they aren't all that much better.

 

[Bleedred]

The current Rangers remind me of the Vokoun era Panthers or maybe the Panthers during Luongo’s first tenure. They had an elite goalie, but we’re getting killed most nights and always out of the playoffs. Their goaltending usually kept the scores close or stole games that they should have lost.

The Rangers definitely have a better overall roster than those teams though.

I don’t understand why AV gets defended so much. If AV coached bad teams (with bad rosters) for any of his NHL career, I don’t think people would vehemently defend him or talk him up as an elite coach or whatever.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

If they're so bad then how did their whole team make the All Star game?

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO POST OF THE YEAR.

 

[The S5]

Aside from Kreider who is a low-end LW1 and Zibanejad who is a borderline 1C, they have a lot of good forwards, but not great ones. There isn't a player on that team who makes you nervous when they have the puck. Look at the guys others teams in the division have: Hall, Tavares, Barzal, Voracek, Giroux, Ovie, Backstrom, Kuz, Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Panarin. The Rangers have no one near those tiers. McDonagh has fallen off the last few years, Shattenkirk is obviously elite offensively, but not a complete player by any means and Lundqvist has been inconsistent recently, but great this year. Just a whole lot of meh on that team.

McDonagh hasn't fallen anywhere. He is still a top 10-12 defenseman, depending on what you value. He plays top pair with guys who are 2nd or bottom pair players consistently.

 

[Chimpradamus]

McDonagh hasn't fallen anywhere. He is still a top 10-12 defenseman, depending on what you value. He plays top pair with guys who are 2nd or bottom pair players consistently.

He hasn't looked good, maybe be he's injured. But it sure hasn't helped his career to consistently be played with the worst defenseman on the team, or just a 3rd pairing guy. I have no clue why Vigneault thinks this is a good idea.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO POST OF THE YEAR.

I don't get it.

 

[The S5]

He hasn't looked good, maybe be he's injured. But it sure hasn't helped his career to consistently be played with the worst defenseman on the team, or just a 3rd pairing guy. I have no clue why Vigneault thinks this is a good idea.

I don't get it.

If you watch a lot of hockey, you will see that all the defense men considered top 10 look bad a times. Even the ones on good teams with a solid partner. If you just focus on the mistakes McDonagh makes, you will view him poorly, but I watch a lot of hockey and ALL D men make lots of mistakes.
Instead, try watching McD vs. other teams top lines. Watch how many times he shuts down their attempts. Watch how many times he is called upon to cover up the mistakes of his partner or forwards.

I am sick of hearing about how the team should trade McDonagh. The guy is a stud and it isn't debatable.

 

[gorangers0525]

McDonagh’s been very good this season, one of the few players on the Rangers having a good year.

Rangers are not just statistically a bad team, they are a bad team, that would be an awful team without the elite goaltending they’re receiving.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Buch has the most talent on the team offensively and could develop into a top line player but AV is really f***ing him up. I don't understand what school of thought AV comes from when it comes to developing offensive players but it seems like he thinks that by treating them like shit with a 1 minute leash they will get better playing with 4th line scrubs. The kid is a 70+ pt guy in the right situation. Zib is decent but probably best a #2C. Lias Andersson + Chytil could be the saviors for the offense assuming AV is fired.

 

[MessierII]

By these same stats oilers are statiscally a good team. Doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t translate to wins.

 

[gorangers0525]

By these same stats oilers are statiscally a good team. Doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t translate to wins.

These stats are even strength. Oilers woes are mostly due to a histroically bad PK. They’re on pace to have the worst pk since 1985.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Buch has the most talent on the team offensively and could develop into a top line player but AV is really ****ing him up. I don't understand what school of thought AV comes from when it comes to developing offensive players but it seems like he thinks that by treating them like **** with a 1 minute leash they will get better playing with 4th line scrubs. The kid is a 70+ pt guy in the right situation.

He is a top line player already, while playing 3rd line minutes, and 4th at even strength. AV will probably cost him like 10-15 points this season.

 

[Connor McConnor]

He is a top line player already, while playing 3rd line minutes, and 4th at even strength. AV will probably cost him like 10-15 points this season.

He has played on the top line for short stints but 13 minutes of average ice time is not indicative of a top line player. He SHOULD be a top line player but AV doesn't like offensive players.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He has played on the top line for short stints but 13 minutes of average ice time is not indicative of a top line player. He SHOULD be a top line player but AV doesn't like offensive players.

I look at production, not what lines a coach puts a player on.