Random WJC thoughts

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speeds

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some thoughts:

- Getzlaf should really get more press. I know Carter was awesome, but Getzlaf wasn't exactly dragging Carter down by any stretch

- this was the only game I saw of Russia, but i really liked Shafigulin's game tonight, looked pretty good out there.

- Olesz should not have slid to 7th.
 

rival

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I think your comments on Belle and Ladd were spot on. I went into this tournament with a negative bias towards both because of what I'd read on this board but after watching both I think people were way off base. Ladd makes the players around him better plain and simple. Belle did have some moments with the puck that made me wonder but he is not as clueless as some have made him out to be.
 

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Vlad The Impaler said:
Some random WJC thoughts. Feel free to comment, challenge or add yours!

Vlad The Impaler said:
2-I was fairly confident in our chance because for the first time in many years, I actually respected the coaching and selection process. Brent Sutter had an almost NHL-like roster to work with, and he molded this team to play NHL level hockey. Somewhere down the road, this guy will be a NHL coach. If Darryl takes a liking to management, I wouldn't be surprised if he made room for Brent in Calgary.

Sutter did an amazing job. But he was given the right team to do it with. A younger team might not have responded the way this team did, especially considering the "drought" Canada has been through in the past little while, and the loss last year. Sutter was a perfect fit.

I disagree with Sutter going to Calgary though. He is the owner, GM and coach in Red Deer (a great hockey town). I don't see him leaving there for a long while. Things could change, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Another Memorial Cup or two, and he might make the jump.

Vlad The Impaler said:
8-Nashville fans, stop the embarassing and undeserved Ryan Suter chant and start noticing Shafigulin. He may be one of the players least recognized this year as a standout. He was really on another level. Physically up to the challenge, defensively effective, offensively promising. Lots of great moves, very mature. Somewhere between Frolov and Svitov. Kickass find for the Preds. So is Shea Weber for that matter but that is already well known.

Suter is an American, so I understand the fan fair. But I see some similarities (atleast with this tourney) to Paul Mara. I thought both had a bit of a swagger and attitude, and couldn't get it done when they needed to. I also see Suter having a similar career (ie lackluster). I think Weber will be a bigger piece to the puzzle in Nashville then Suter will be.

Vlad The Impaler said:
9-People, say it with me. Phaneuf is much better than Suter. He's a special prospect. That being said, it was fun to see Panin rock Dion on his ass. How odd that Pierre didn't have anything to say about that :speechles

I can't believe this was ever a debate. Phaneuf is by far better then Suter. NHL players are already talking about Dion, while they are getting Ryan Suter confused with Gary.

Vlad The Impaler said:
10-Team Canada was dangerous on so many levels. When players like Bergeron or Crosby didn't provide offense, others became stars and those two became solid two-way players. Many of the forwards were effective taking turns. The defense was unreal. What's even more unreal is Canada could have likely iced another whole D squad better than ANY other country. Scary stuff. This team was on another level.

Not only did Crosby and Bergeron provide defence, they also provided a physical edge. When Crosby is catching Ovechkin coming across the blueline, it say's he's bought into the team. It is a compliment to not only the players, but the coaches who instilled the systems.

Vlad The Impaler said:
20-Despite being young, Finland was a disappointment for me.

Well, they are my favs to be in the final next year. Finland is shaping their junior program similar to Canada's Program of Excellence. They will be a force for years to come.

Vlad The Impaler said:
22-Where are all the whiners who complained that team Canada had screwed up by selecting this team? It was a great lineup. Personally, I had no problem with it although I really think Stone should have been there.

There will be some crow being served in Quebec tonight. Ain't that sweet!!!!!
 

Kovy274Hart

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Jason MacIsaac said:
This tourniment proved that with a weak defense Montoya is useless because his style gives off too many rebounds. Schwarz was by far the best goaltender in the tourney. Without him Czechs wouldn't have medaled.


How many goalies can carry the load when their D is horrid? I am not sure the US D was on par with the Czechs. Other than Suter, I didn't have any confidence. Hagemo was ok.

In the end, one goal was all that separated the two goalies in a really good contest.


Al no doubt needs to get in to see Allaire. He was flopping a lot. I don't remember him struggling as much with that last year.
 

Crosbyfan

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Dion Mustard said:
There will be some crow being served in Quebec tonight. Ain't that sweet!!!!!

Yeah, the MVP going to a Quebec player must really tick them off!
 

Wolfpack

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Man, that was a sweet victory tonight. I had a feeling that if the Canadian kids came out hitting that the Russians would not want any part of that, and it was one of the few times I've been right.

Kessel was impressive to me - the most exciting American player along with Fritsche and Stafford. And I liked what I saw of Schremp in his limited role - his bad defence and skating that many seem to point to don't seem like insurmountable problems for a gifted scorer.

I'm now officially a big fan of Carter and Getzlaf. Don't get a chance to see them play much but they are both the real deal.

As much as it pains me to say it, Nashville's blue-line could be scarey-good in a few years. Hamhuis, Timonen, Suter, Weber...

Ovechkin and Malkin are both loaded with talent, but when the going got tough they didn't do much. Maybe it can be blamed on bad line-mates, but it would be a shame to see them continue with their selfish play and showboating antics. They're both great players.

Well, I'll savour the moment for now and tomorrow I'll start worrying about how we're going to win in 2006 with Crosby and Barker the only two players who can possibly return to play for Team Canada in the WJHC.

:yo:
 

J-D

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During the whole tournament Getzlaf had some scoring chances but decided to pass instead.

Really liked Meszaros' and Smid's games.

Anthony Stewart looked like a hack, but that's because his team greatly improved compared to last year. I mean, when the first line is bumped to third... Agree with Vlad on Ladd, he'll be ok.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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speeds said:
- this was the only game I saw of Russia, but i really liked Shafigulin's game tonight, looked pretty good out there.

Just so you know, he was just as great in the other games I saw. I think I saw three games and he demonstrated the whole range of abilities throughout. He was played in critical situation, responded well. He picked many pockets, especially in the second game I saw. What I like is that he can outplay you defensively or offensively by using finesse or power. It is tough to get him off the puck for sure, and he does use his size well. And the physical side of his game is promising. You don't knock Anthony Stewart down easily.

McGuire, like many fans, does have a way of going by draft position and name on the jersey when describing. I have a feeling if Shafigulin had the status of a Svitov (top 5 pick) he would have raved about him.

Just another pick that demonstrates how insanely deep the 2003 draft was. I like the upside and he was definitly the surprise player of this tournament for me. He will rise on lists pretty soon, IMO.
 

paxtang

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Question for people who watched Canada and have seen Carter play before:

It's been written that Carter needs to work on his playmaking, and in this tourney he had way more goals than assists. Is Carter a below avearge playmaker, is he a selfish player, or was it simply people not finishing on plays? Thanks.
 

FlyersFan10*

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paxtang said:
Question for people who watched Canada and have seen Carter play before:

It's been written that Carter needs to work on his playmaking, and in this tourney he had way more goals than assists. Is Carter a below avearge playmaker, is he a selfish player, or was it simply people not finishing on plays? Thanks.

It's not that Carter needs to work on his playmaking. Fact of the matter is that Carter is an excellent finisher. It isn't an issue of being selfish or people not finishing plays. For the most part, Carter was in the right place, right time to get the goals.

When Carter gets to the NHL, his game will round out and you'll see the assists match the goals. Carter's hand was hot and his chemistry with Getzlaf was really apparent throughout the tournament. It's funny because when the two were drafted, Getzlaf was known more as the finisher and Carter was known more as the passer. What an interesting role reversal.

Anyways, with regards to my observations, did anyone else notice how Getzlaf and Carter probably put in the quietest dominating performance of the tournament. There was so much hype around Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, etc.....yet, there was very little press about Carter and Getzlaf. I just wanted to point that out....
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Ever since I saw Carter on the wing of Staal in the prospect game in 2003, I've thought he would be a damn good scoring winger. He's going to be good as a center too, but I think he could convert as a great goalscoring winger.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Vlad The Impaler said:
Ever since I saw Carter on the wing of Staal in the prospect game in 2003, I've thought he would be a damn good scoring winger. He's going to be good as a center too, but I think he could convert as a great goalscoring winger.
I agree....I would rather my center be a great playmaker then a sniper. On the wing Carter could use his straight out speed much better then at center. He could be given the puck at top flight and burn almost any defensmen with his 6`4 frame along with his blazing speed.
 

Evman*

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I really liked Shawn Belle this tournament. He surprised me, he made solid decisions with the puck and was a rock in the defensive zone. And of course he skates like the wind.

Braydon Coburn was a disappointment for me. Maybe it's because he didn't play as much as the other guys, but he just didn't impress me much.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Evman said:
I really liked Shawn Belle this tournament. He surprised me, he made solid decisions with the puck and was a rock in the defensive zone. And of course he skates like the wind.

Braydon Coburn was a disappointment for me. Maybe it's because he didn't play as much as the other guys, but he just didn't impress me much.
I thought Colburn was excellent. He doesn't have that mean streak yet but he was solid defensivly for Canada. His shot is underated. I thought it was heavy and effective at times on the PP.
 

FlyersFan10*

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I think Coburn is really going to surprise some people. Defensemen take a little longer to develop. I'm thinking wait until he grows into his frame and gets comfortable. To a certain extent, Coburn seems a little awkward right now. When he's 240 or 245, he's gonna hit like a freight train.

With regards to developing a mean streak, I hate to say it, but the only way he'll develop one now is if he gets hurt. If he gets hurt and he comes back from injury after a long layoff, I could see him getting really nasty.

I think people have written off Coburn too soon. And if he ever develops a mean streak, then I'll say his ceiling becomes much higher than Dion Phaneuf's.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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FlyersFan10 said:
I think Coburn is really going to surprise some people. Defensemen take a little longer to develop. I'm thinking wait until he grows into his frame and gets comfortable. To a certain extent, Coburn seems a little awkward right now. When he's 240 or 245, he's gonna hit like a freight train.

With regards to developing a mean streak, I hate to say it, but the only way he'll develop one now is if he gets hurt. If he gets hurt and he comes back from injury after a long layoff, I could see him getting really nasty.

I think people have written off Coburn too soon. And if he ever develops a mean streak, then I'll say his ceiling becomes much higher than Dion Phaneuf's.
Agreed, with a mean streak Colburn starts to look a little like Pronger. I don't like bringing it up because that comparison has been over used with Komisarek but its true.
 

Hossa

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Evman said:
I really liked Shawn Belle this tournament. He surprised me, he made solid decisions with the puck and was a rock in the defensive zone. And of course he skates like the wind.

Braydon Coburn was a disappointment for me. Maybe it's because he didn't play as much as the other guys, but he just didn't impress me much.

I'm going to disagree on Coburn. I actually thought he was very strong in the entire tournament. I also think he played more than we realize, he just doesn't stand out. Ok, he's not as flashy as Phaneuf or even Weber, but he's big, can skate, and was more physical or involved offensively than I've ever seen him be before. I think on another team, where he was more than the 3rd or 4th d-man, like, say Russia...he would be talked about right there with Phaneuf, Weber, Suter and Meszaros as the top d-men in this tournament.
 

Hossa

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As for your original post Vlad, very well done, as usual.

I disagree on the Suter/Phaneuf thing. For a while, i was on the other side of the fence than you, but I'm probably moving into the Phaneuf camp. That's not because Suter did anything wrong, but Phaneuf showed me some things that I wanted to see in him. The biggest reason I preferred Suter than Phaneuf is I thought Suter was a more controlled, stable presence in the defensive zone. I still think Phaneuf might be more effective if he went for the big hit less often, but his ability to pick his spots has improved noticeably. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I don't like wild defencemen. That's why I'd invariably take a Wade Redden type of player, steady, poised and in control, over an Ed Jovanovski, who plays a more reckless, renegade-style of game on the blueline. Another junior parrallel is when Brendan Bell won the OHL and eventually CHL defenceman of the year award, I was adamant that Karol Sloboda was actually the better defenceman. Phaneuf showed me a real ability to play either style. I still like Suter more than Phaneuf in some ways, but if there was a gap, Phaneuf has closed it.

Also, I'm a fiend for a strong first pass, and PHaneuf's last year was lacking. While it still needs work, and Suter's is better IMO, Phaneuf is improving in this area. Coburn actually has a fantastic first pass, one of the reasons I liked him so much in this tournament.

Overall, I prefer the type of defenceman I see Suter as over what I see in Phaneuf, but right now, Phaneuf is just better. It's rare to be able to say a guy in the WHL is ahead of a guy in the AHL, but that's how it is right now. I don't disagree with you on Phaneuf, but I do think you sell Suter short. Maybe it's because you think that comparison is unfair to Phaneuf, and thus discriminate against Suter as a result, I'm not sure. But I do think you need to give Suter more respect.

I also agree to an extent on Ladd. I was a major critic of him before this tournament, and while I still do not see him being much of an offensive player in the NHL, I do have a new-found respect for his all-round abilities. I will toot my own horn though, and point out I said before the draft I'd take Drew Stafford over Andrew Ladd, and right now, I think Stafford is the better prospect. Stafford was without a doubt one of the US' two or three best players and could have been on the 2nd all-tournament team had such a group have been named. I think Stafford's showed more offensive ability than most believed, while Ladd's ofensive upside seems to have been reduced, with his all-round game gaining more respect in turn.

On another point, I'm obviously just a bit excited about Meszaros. But I will also say that while Klepis was no Havlat, Kaygorodov is looking like a damn good second round pick that year. ;)

The final thing I'll say in response to your post Vlad, is with respect to the selection of the team. This team won gold, and that is all well and good. It also flat out dominated. And while I'm not questioning the coaching staff, I will maintain that Steve Bernier in particular, should have made this team. The young man has simply improved too much for his efforts to go unnoticed. I stand corrected on Colin Fraser, he was certainly better than I expected. But I will say that I think Sutter had a pretty significant margin for error, not that he pushed the limit in any way or anything.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Well it all depends on the defensmen you want. Suter is a Wade Reddon type defensmen. Makes excellent fire passes out of the zone, can be used on the PP and be relied upon in the defensive zone.

With Phaneuf you get Stevens without the offense or first break pass. That still leaves you with an excellent defensmen but not close to the Stevens we know.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Hossa said:
The final thing I'll say in response to your post Vlad, is with respect to the selection of the team. This team won gold, and that is all well and good. It also flat out dominated. And while I'm not questioning the coaching staff, I will maintain that Steve Bernier in particular, should have made this team. The young man has simply improved too much for his efforts to go unnoticed.

Thanks for the props, Hossa :)

In regards to Bernier, I feel he is a fantastic prospect. But he is actually the last player I wanted to see on this team, for such a tournament. He's high maintenance and an enigma. He requires a stable environment and to be figured out by linemates and coaches alike.

In all fairness, he could have been one of the best player of the tournaments but the risk was there he could be a none-factor. He's a similar type to Stewart in this respect but Stewart was a returnee so they went with him. He actually bombed and I suspect under Sutter, so would Bernier.

Now, I think a Steve Bernier is too good to pass up if you've got depth/talent level of Germany or even a solid team like the Czechs. But in Canada, I feel we had this *luxury* to pass him up. I emphasize luxury to demonstrate how highly I think of him and his potential.

We are blessed that we could pass such a guy. Not every nation can but we could ice a great team, replace him with a player that may not have that top end but carried much less risk. Andrew Ladd is a nice example of a player who is smart and will do what is asked of him without getting you into trouble.

I really, really like Drew Stafford. Much better player than Ladd at this level. What intrigues me is I still see a little more NHL potential in Ladd. Ask me who I want right now for such hockey and I choose Stafford right here, right now. No hesitation. Ask me who I draft and I still go with Ladd as of now. So I guess we disagree :)

But Stafford is as safe as they come, and really a guy I greatly enjoy watching play.

As for giving Suter respect... well, I have been trying to drive the point home a little for the last few weeks. I guess I just got tired of the senseless Suter mantra :D

But seriously, I think he is an outstanding young defenseman. But I just think he's been giving props he doesn't fully deserve. Certainly, when it reaches the point where he was considered the best D prospect, I wanted to provide debate material but I really like the type of guy Suter is. I think he is excellent but I also think he is in a pile of defensemen who are roughly equal as 3rd best prospect D. But that's just me.

I see Phaneuf as king of that pile without question. I see Barker as 2nd based on potential but this is highly debatable. Then you've got a pile of guys battling it on. I only question why Suter is constantly 1st or 2nd at worse on those lists. I think guys like Grebeshkov have just as good a shot as Suter.

I guess I don't get why he is a clear cut #2 at worse on ALL lists I have seen recently, sometimes #1. But don't think I dislike him other than that. Just like Komisarek, I'll give him his props when it's realistic :D
 

Vast Ant Dioi

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I just wanted to comment on the Carter/Getzlaf thing that was being talked about earlier in the thead.

Getzlaf showed me amazing patience and maturity with the puck this tournament. I can't remember the number of times I saw him with the puck in front of an open net but an otherwise low percentage play -- side of the net, lots of traffic in the way, etc. A lot of guys would elect to shoot there because the goalie was out of position, but Getzlaf elected to hold onto the puck and cycle it some more. This was mostly on the powerplay. I dug that a lot because puck possession is everything...maybe he would have had one or two more goals because some of those go in, but it's little things like turnovers on the powerplay that turn a possession into a failed PP, and maybe Canada only wins their blowouts 4-1 and 5-1 instead of 8-1 and 9-1. Way to go Getzlaf.

I also loved Crosby's celebration on Bergeron's goal in the final. The kid was happier than hell that his linemate had scored a big goal in a big game. That shows some team-first attitude in him and that's great to see.

Good thread by the way.

Oh, as for Suter, this was the first opportunity I really got to watch him...he's going to be a great defenseman. I see a little Nick Lidstrom in him in that he's got a great all-around game. He was probably the best defenseman in the tournament at moving the puck up the ice...the only guy that came close in my mind was Smid.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Vast Ant Dioi said:
Oh, as for Suter, this was the first opportunity I really got to watch him...he's going to be a great defenseman. I see a little Nick Lidstrom in him in that he's got a great all-around game. He was probably the best defenseman in the tournament at moving the puck up the ice...the only guy that came close in my mind was Smid.

Smid is like the anti-Phaneuf. Although Dion has improved, I don't really like him with the puck until he's in the offensive zone. Then he rocks my world.

With Smid, I absolutely love him with the puck from his own zone until he crosses the offensive zone. Then he is absolutely unthreatening and predictable.

Smid is really good. You made a good point that I forgot in my observation. He just makes great, safe plays from his own zone to get things going. He's very calm, heads up and he develops a good play. I liked that. Didn't like him much once things were set and it was time to score. With his size and poise, there is something to work on here. Perhaps a little more hunger is needed, some killer instinct.
 

Panopticon

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Only thing I didn't like about Phaneuf was that he seemed to have the worst aim in the history of hockey. Well, not quite, but still disappointing. If that shot of his would go towards the net more often, he would score so much more goals.
 
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