OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Condemned of Altoona

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Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
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brentz seems worth a flyer, dyson seems worth avoiding at all costs

I'm indifferent about the Brentz trade. Depth is good. Just wish they'd get some MLB depth as well.

I'm wondering why you would avoid Dyson as all cost, especially for 2 years at $3.5m per. Especially with some of the needs this teams has. I can't see his legs totally leaving him at ages 33 and 34. I'm not debating, just wondering as it's a totally irrelevant point now.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I actually don't hate this one. Red Sox fans really wanted him called up last year - he adjusted his swing and hit a ton of dingers. I think only Hoskins was a better hitter in the IL last year.

It certainly falls under the whatever crap sticks to the wall, but I think we can sort of extend that kind of thinking to nearly the entire roster, really only mediated by certain expectations and pedigrees. Obviously there's a way of stretching what I'm saying into total bullshit that defends the poor direction and leadership of NH et al, and I don't intend it that way, but basically how I see things is that the team is depending on a ton of players to beat their projections, on top of young talent.

Even the on-paper good players have degrees of question marks around them. I honestly can't really think of an important or supplementary player who doesn't. Probably the least extreme are something like: Rivero - will he be the best RP in baseball or just somewhere around 4-8?; Bell - will his hit tool come back to where it's expected and keep the power?; Taillon - will he have a full, healthy season and take a step forward as the leader of the rotation, or simply be a dependable innings guy?

I'm looking for a deeper dive on Brentz, but it seems like he's struggled with both injuries and translating to the AAA level for the most part, before putting together a very fine season last year. It's the definition of a no risk move, but a handful of no risk moves aren't going to move the needle at all for this team.
 

Asuna

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i think the positive thing here is, lately the pirates have gone after guys with power.

it may not work out, but at least they're keeping up with the mlb trend now, instead of ignoring it.
 

cookthebooks

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I'm indifferent about the Brentz trade. Depth is good. Just wish they'd get some MLB depth as well.

I'm wondering why you would avoid Dyson as all cost, especially for 2 years at $3.5m per. Especially with some of the needs this teams has. I can't see his legs totally leaving him at ages 33 and 34. I'm not debating, just wondering as it's a totally irrelevant point now.
i think his legs have left him already and he is likely barely above replacement level for a mediocre team that would be better served giving those at bats to a younger player with upside
 

DJ Spinoza

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One of the reasons he missed time for injuries is because he shot himself in the leg while cleaning his gun.

I like his mix a little bit more than Osuna for depth, though it seems like his defense is also nothing special. Let's see how he looks in spring training, but it's probably worth filing away that he wouldn't be the first Red Sox prospect to be a really late bloomer. Upshot really just seems like slightly better organizational depth in a needed role.

I remain in pessimistic hope for the equally low-risk upside of a Dickerson or Gonzalez.
 

Winger for Hire

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i think his legs have left him already and he is likely barely above replacement level for a mediocre team that would be better served giving those at bats to a younger player with upside

That's certainly a fair point. I really haven't seen him play too much and am just going by stats and word of mouth and it seems like he still has some spring in the legs.

I would just like to really see some MLB depth if indeed the Pirates have truly talked themselves into competing this season. I would love for the young guys to get ABs and innings, but I'm afraid that the FO and coaches are buying into making a run this year with what they have will afford the kids a shorter leash.

One of the reasons he missed time for injuries is because he shot himself in the leg while cleaning his gun.

That does not fill me with confidence, but fingers crossed.
 

Brandinho

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I'm indifferent about the Brentz trade. Depth is good. Just wish they'd get some MLB depth as well.

I'm wondering why you would avoid Dyson as all cost, especially for 2 years at $3.5m per. Especially with some of the needs this teams has. I can't see his legs totally leaving him at ages 33 and 34. I'm not debating, just wondering as it's a totally irrelevant point now.

Given the self-imposed financial constraints, I don't think spending $3.5m a year on a 33 year old who can't hit at all is a good idea. For a team with a normal payroll, it's a drop in the bucket, but for us, it just seems like a poor investment given the risk that he falls apart at any moment.
 

Winger for Hire

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Given the self-imposed financial constraints, I don't think spending $3.5m a year on a 33 year old who can't hit at all is a good idea. For a team with a normal payroll, it's a drop in the bucket, but for us, it just seems like a poor investment given the risk that he falls apart at any moment.

Yeah, and I totally get that. I'm just stuck here between the Pirates publicly saying they're competing and actually looking at their roster and the teams they have to jump over. I just can't see these kinds of signings as signs to achieving that goal. Maybe they'll surprise us and they have a deal lined for for Lynn and LoMo. Probably not, but they need some actual MLB depth or they've gone full on gas-lighting.

Can't keep hoping to hit on MiLB depth guys constantly.
 

Brandinho

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Yeah, and I totally get that. I'm just stuck here between the Pirates publicly saying they're competing and actually looking at their roster and the teams they have to jump over. I just can't see these kinds of signings as signs to achieving that goal. Maybe they'll surprise us and they have a deal lined for for Lynn and LoMo. Probably not, but they need some actual MLB depth or they've gone full on gas-lighting.

Can't keep hoping to hit on MiLB depth guys constantly.

Yeah, it's not like I want them to save their money and I suppose Dyson would be better than nothing, but I think the difference between nothing and Dyson doesn't justify his contract for us. I'd love to believe that they're waiting to spend money on someone who does move the needle, but I'm not delusional.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think he'd be average enough that the potential power tradeoff would be well worth it. Projections seem very down on him, but you have to imagine someone will take him on for basically nothing. Colorado seems like a good bet, or maybe San Francisco, if they can stay under the cap with the move.

Nava and Brentz could be an adequate OF platoon, judging by the numbers. But there's not huge upside there - maybe 2.5 wins if you want to really be crazy optimistic about projections? I'd rather just take the gamble on CarGo and have Luplow or somebody else backing him up or playing if he falters, but the open roster battle approach does have some merits, and maybe is better for a team with such middling expectations anyways.

First SS game is less than 72 hours away.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Topkin says that despite the recent salary dumps/trades, he doesn't think the Rays will move Kiermaier or Archer. Both are on extremely team friendly deals, so that makes some sense, but they seem to be both trying to continue treading water and really shed salary.
 

Brandinho

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Archer's value is going to take a nose dive if he can't return to form. He's now two seasons removed from performing like a high end starter and his contract, whilst still an asset, has one fewer year on it. Definitely trending in the wrong direction.
 

Brandinho

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? He's one of the best 1st basemen in the league..great defensively.

He's neither a backup nor is he one of the best first basemen in the league. He's an enigma, sandwiching legitimately good seasons in between near replacement player calibre performances.

He's probably the most athletic first baseman in the league and he's just entering his prime, so they're obviously counting on there being some projection left. What suggests that they might be right is how devastatingly good he is going the other way. He has some funky batted ball splits that definitely hit at untapped potential. To be honest, the biggest thing that bothers me is that the Padres signed him. AJ Preller is incompetent, but a broken clock is right twice a day, I guess. Just doesn't bode well for the player.
 

PensandCaps

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He's neither a backup nor is he one of the best first basemen in the league. He's an enigma, sandwiching legitimately good seasons in between near replacement player calibre performances.

He's probably the most athletic first baseman in the league and he's just entering his prime, so they're obviously counting on there being some projection left. What suggests that they might be right is how devastatingly good he is going the other way. He has some funky batted ball splits that definitely hit at untapped potential. To be honest, the biggest thing that bothers me is that the Padres signed him. AJ Preller is incompetent, but a broken clock is right twice a day, I guess. Just doesn't bode well for the player.

OPS was 882. Last year. Has a few GGs...i fail to see how he isn't one of the best 1st basemen in the league. Three straight 90+ RBI seasons.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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? He's one of the best 1st basemen in the league..great defensively.

Um not really either of those things. He has had good years where that applied but there is one key difference between him and the rest of those other guys. They dont put up replacement level years every other season.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Archer's value is going to take a nose dive if he can't return to form. He's now two seasons removed from performing like a high end starter and his contract, whilst still an asset, has one fewer year on it. Definitely trending in the wrong direction.

Yeah, it seems like they are sort of in the position of needing to hold onto him in order to either rebuild his value or have him as a key piece going forward.

The Souza trade is the one that's a bit of a headscratcher. I guess they got some ok pieces, and wanted to sell high or something.
 

Brandinho

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OPS was 882. Last year. Has a few GGs...i fail to see how he isn't one of the best 1st basemen in the league. Three straight 90+ RBI seasons.

Yes, he had a good year. The year before, he was garbage. The year before that, he was good. The year before that, he was garbage. The year before that, he was good. The year before that, he was garbage. See a pattern? You cannot be one of the best in the league if you can't even put two good seasons together consecutively. If you only look at his last 3 good seasons, you get an average of 3.7 WAR. If you take the average of his last 6 seasons, however, you get an average of 2 WAR. That's how bad his lows get.

If you believe that last year was representative of him reaching a new standard of performance, that's fine, but given his track record, he'll need to prove that he can duplicate it. Oh, and please never use counting stats to try and validate a player's ability. That's just a fundamentally poor argument.
 

Brandinho

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Yeah, it seems like they are sort of in the position of needing to hold onto him in order to either rebuild his value or have him as a key piece going forward.

The Souza trade is the one that's a bit of a headscratcher. I guess they got some ok pieces, and wanted to sell high or something.

Players with Souza's skill set almost uniformly age terribly, but he's only 28 so it seems a bit premature to be worried about that. The prospects seem alright, but I agree that it's a little puzzling.
 

Winger for Hire

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I wonder of the Brewers are still interested in Walker.

I'm really interested in Steriod-eta. The Brewers seem like a logical lending point, but I don't think they want to give him his big payday. I would think Lynn would be the top Mil target.

Jake seems like he wants to get paid solely on his all-world run of 1 1/2 seasons and nothing else.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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OPS was 882. Last year. Has a few GGs...i fail to see how he isn't one of the best 1st basemen in the league. Three straight 90+ RBI seasons.

Which was 9th. If you expand past just last year hes in the 12-15 range.

Gold gloves really... Nate McClouth won a gold glove.

RBIs? Really, just really now?

Lets do it the easy way...

Over the past 2 years he is 14th in WAR with a handful of guys right behind him that would probably pass him with comparable ABs.

And theres not a guy in front of him that id take him over personally either.
 
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