OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Condemned of Altoona

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by Big McLargehuge, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. JimmyTwoTimes

    JimmyTwoTimes Registered User

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    Nobody should celebrate that win. Vazquez and Hurdle combined are horrible.

    They got lucky there. That was just a sign of more things to come with them.
     
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  2. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    I'm actually shocked. That should count as a L.

    Here's hoping we can avoid getting swept by the Reds! Vazquez is something of a microcosm of this team, in that he's unpredictable, probably being curtailed by coaching staff decisions, more or less totally unreliable, reliant on luck... but also, at the end of the day, what other option do we have?

    Cubs lost, so we trail them by 6.5, and the Brewers by 8. If Cards win tonight, we'll be 5 behind them, and if they lose, 4. The path to divisional relevance by the all star break is going to run right through Milwaukee, although even playing pretty well against them probably only shaves 2 games off that lead. There are some good signs - Musgrove, Taillon, Bell - here recently, but the foundation still seems pretty rotten. If we were serious about contending, Huntington would do well to press for a bullpen move ASAP, but I doubt we are, and he'll probably just sit on our hands. I'd like to hope we can finally win a series or two and shave some games off our deficit, but I think there's absolutely no chance with this bullpen.
     
  3. JimmyTwoTimes

    JimmyTwoTimes Registered User

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    Thats the worst part about going 7-18 in last 25 games, there havent been any teams that have dominated the NL. Its up for grabs, yet the Pirates threw away too many games.

    They should at least be tied with the Brewers in first right now and thats just counting the games they lost they had a 99% chance of winning past the 6th inning.
     
  4. SirBrad

    SirBrad Registered User

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    Joba Chamberlain is on the MLB Network now as a host and looks like Phil Kessel.
     
  5. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    The Cards just dropped their series at home to the Padres. I guess the one thing to keep in mind for some perspective is that no team in the division seems to have the kind of cuthroat pace that makes it impossible to really think about the divisional race. We've done some irreperably bad damage, and we all keep saying this in different ways, but it's not fatal unless we can't really crawl out of it.

    There are pretty much three huge stretches before the break. 10 game homestand vs Reds, Brewers, D-Backs, 9 game road trip vs. Mets, Padres, Dodgers, and then 10 game home stand vs Phillies, Nationals, and Brewers. This kind of thing is always fated to be dumb, but here's what I think we need in those stretches: 7-3, 6-3, 5-5. That puts us at 51-46 going into the all star break, and I'd say presumably 4-5 games off the division. Both of the opening two runs are pretty aggressive, and I'm in no way banking on them, but we'll need stretches like that a few more times if we're going to be relevant in the division or WC race.

    I still don't think there's any way we can pull these kinds of things off with the state of the bullpen, but it is what it is. Either we come out of the slump and gain some wins back, or we keep free falling. It starts with whether we can beat up on the Reds. We need a similar offensive explosion as we had the first time around, in order to set the stage for a nice home stand, and hopefully banish this endless nightmare.
     
  6. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    Would be nice to get Rodriguez and Schugel back in the pen. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.
     
  7. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    Kind of hoping they spot start Glasnow on Sunday to push Musgrove into the Brewers series. I'd feel more confident with both him and Taillon going in that one.
     
  8. Return of the Paek

    Return of the Paek Registered User

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    I don't think they can keep using Williams. Obviously, Kingham should take his spot immediately.
     
  9. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    While this is a historically bad stretch of games for Williams, I wouldn't take him out of the rotation entirely. I'd give him a day off is next time up, which coincidentally lines up with Kingham.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 3:57 PM
  10. JimmyTwoTimes

    JimmyTwoTimes Registered User

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    Especially if Nova is healthy and last game is what we are going to see from him going forward.

    Kingham is good for 2-3 runs each time but Williams has been spotting teams 4-5 each time out.

    Looking back at the schedule, the Pirates should at least be 40-28 instead of 33-35. 8 games they had won, that were blown late.

    If they can get things on the same page(bats, SP, and RPs) they can make up for this 7-18 stretch. No margin for error tho now and have to win something like 10 out of 15 to get back in it.
     
  11. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    Yeah, I think with what Kingham has shown, there should be a relatively fast hook on a guy like Williams. Ultimately, I think they have roughly the same potential, but at least in the early going, Kingham has flashed more strikeout potential, and Williams' vaunted command seems to have left him some this season. I'm one of his biggest supporters, but I'd say if he can't right the ship in another two starts, then at the very least its time for a phantom DL stint and some Kingham spot starts.

    FWIW, he pitched 8 innings of 2-hit, shutout ball in AAA tonight. I'm holding out some hope that Nova will string some starts together and be movable within the next month or so. All things considered, he's not really a bad signing relative to what free agents get, but now with the acquisition of Musgrove, there's so little room, and so many options to try for the same production, that the trade would make some sense even as pure salary dump. I think he's been dependable enough that he'd get a modicum of value in return -- it's hard to underestimate how absurdly pitchers are overpaid, or how easy it is for them to go down in an instant.

    It could be a shortsighted idea, but even if you think Williams and Kuhl both will completely flame out or something, there are a number of options, and then you take into account the not too distant horizon headlined by Keller, but also incluing guys like Waddell. Nova's upside is an above average innings eater, and I'd rather open a clearer path to eventually take another run at it with Glasnow.
     
  12. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    Looks like Morosi is coming through with the vague and obvious suggestion that we might sell, noting also the equally obvious fact that Huntington is not shy about trading before the deadline.

    Honestly, it's just another depressing distraction with a season that continues to fly off the rails, but maybe it will be something that kicks them into high gear. We need a winning streak, even if it's just running the total up to 5 games, dropping game 2 to the Brewers and then taking the series. No other accountability move seems like it's forthcoming, so maybe the increasing idea of vultures lurking will light some kind of fire.
     
  13. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    I think I'm gonna just settled into the DFA S-Rod camp in terms of things that won't happen but really should, ASAP, that we say over and over to take out our frustrations about being a Cursed Franchise.

     
  14. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 Kunitz Was There

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    I just looked at Kang's stats in AAA...yikes. Small sample size, but 1 for 15 through 4 games isn't encouraging.
     
  15. TNT87

    TNT87 Registered User

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  16. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    Yeah, hopefully he picks that up. Just in case the context isn't clear in that tweet, the twitter handle is actually Newman, even though for me KBN calls Kang to mind.

    No Meadows tonight.
     
  17. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    Well done, Glasnow, even with the misplay.
     
  18. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    Other than some bad defense and Bell, this has been a solid game so far. Kuhl mostly was just victimized by bad luck, but showed a ton of poise and made pitches when he needed to consistently, which has been a huge issue for him. Got a ton of important Ks.

    Say what you will about Polanco, but he has crushed the ball twice tonight. Not the best at-bat there, but I like the look of his revamped approach at the plate so far.
     
  19. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    6 up, 6 down for the pen so far. Hope I'm not jinxing Felipe
     
  20. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    That was literally the opposite of what we saw from Crick the other day in pretty much every way. I have not seen him paint with the offspeed stuff like that before.
     
  21. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    Moran seems to get better every week. Really like him
     
  22. KesselMania

    KesselMania Registered User

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    To wins in a row! OMG!
     
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  23. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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  24. cheesedanish87

    cheesedanish87 Registered User

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    Kuhl has the stuff to be a really good starting pitcher, its up to Kuhl and Searage to get him to that level.

    Glad to see Hurdle use Glasnow in a important situation, its about time.
     
  25. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    Kuhl's been very good over his last four or five starts, and his offspeed use is also up. I don't think that's a coincidence and it is a really good sign, especially when you add on the fact that Taillon's successes are also driven in part by more use of the slider.

    I hope the same thing is allowed to happen for Vazquez. He can be much more effective when he deploys some sliders or curves. I don't know that he'll ever command the fastball with pinpoint accuracy, but he shouldn't need to given the other tools he has.

    Anyways, I think Kuhl's success means Williams has more of a microscope on him. Kuhl's more likely to take an additional step forward if he has now found a way to have these 6 IP, 2-3 run games as a regular baseline. Even last night, most of the traffic was a result of bad defense (once by him) or lucky hits. He could have gotten some different bounces and easily put up 7 innings. I'd still give Williams some rope, and my general hope is that Nova strings some solid games together and can be dealt for other pieces, which makes sense from a baseball perspective at this point. Williams does have some bullpen experience, so he could also help out there if he loses the starting job.

    Another nice thing to see from Glasnow was an incredibly efficient inning. I was really impressed with Crick, especially after his total lack of control the other day. I don't think we'll find any meaningful security with these young options, but I do tend to think that Glasnow and Santana represent their best pieces as of now. Hopefully they can keep it rolling, we need something like a sweep in this Reds series to banish being below .500, and to gear up for a big showdown with the Brewers. Pitchers will be Williams, Taillon, Kuhl.
     

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