Questions Questions Questions....

Discussion in 'HFNHL Talk' started by Donga, May 20, 2004.

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  1. Donga

    Donga Registered User

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    With the playoffs currently on at the moment, Can we get an update on whats going on in the league from the Commish or someone with the admin??

    Some things for some of us to think about... Be prepared *scout motto*

    1. Free Agency
    2. Entry Draft

    For the Admin... with some of you guys been out of the playoffs,

    1. Has the re-rates started yet? I know its early, as many of you can testify, its a tedious job but entering in the data is even worse.

    2. Entry draft details??

    Now onto my bug-bears...

    1) Karl Stewart of the Florida Panthers. I'm not taking it out on you, brock but I want clarification. He was signed by the panthers in the HFNHL. Yet he scored enough points in the AHL to get the Mountain Dew award. What if Karl Stewart played HFNHL games, does that discount his eligibility because he made the show or something like that??

    2) We need to rework the Mountain Dew Award. I'm fine with the CHL players going from CHL to AHL and the age limit being 21. However, the problem I have with it are the NCAA and Euro players. I feel anyway that the cap on the age should be lifted to 22-23 for the both of these players. This is because by that time, NCAA players and Euro's that aren't good enough have enough chance to adjust till they hit the big league. Basically, NCAA senior has 1 yr pro experience or Euro has one season AHL experience. You expect a freshman or a junior to carry a team. A kid in the CHL is already in their third season whereas the NCAA is in their rookie year so to speak and if the Euro is good enough, it too should be in its rookie year around this time.

    3) Articles to come possibly... Season Review, Playoff analysis, More Entry Draft talk, Financial Report... This should take us to next season. Anyone want to write any of this, email it to me at the usual place when you finish.

    Thats my weight off... I hope I'm not whinging but just trying to get interactivity up thats all.... :)
     
  2. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    Hey Dion,

    Matt is a way until the end of May, so I'll try to provide a few general answers in his absence...

    Re-rates - We always start our re-rates off of one of the other FHL leagues - usually zubial - and then make some adjustments to certain ratings as we jointly deem necessary. This usually doesn't happen until August, although it could happen earlier if the ratings are available earlier.

    Entry Draft: A good bet is the Saturday BEFORE the NHL Draft, which would make Saturday, June 19th a strong possibility. This is Matt's baby though, so ultimately his call based on his availability.

    For the Karl Stewart scenario, the number of games a player plays in the HFNHL does not impact their HFNHL rating. So you can sign players early. However, the fact Stewart plays in the AHL means his HFNHL rating will continue to be very poor - hence is usefullness in the HFNHL is quite limited. To your other point, admittedly, we've never grappled with that in terms of Mountain Dew eligibility - which is something to think about given it is generally reserved for a "prospect".

    I'm fine tinkering with the Mountain Dew Award particulars. But remember, it is supposed to be for the very BEST prospects - not just good prospects having a solid season. I think an interesting exercise would be to see how many total players qualified for the MD Award. If there are particular categories where there was say only one player, then we probably need to "lower" the bar a tad.

    And the more articles the merrier. Obviously a Conference Final or Stanley Cup Preview would be good, followed by any of your other suggestions. A draft preview and financial review would be good, and perhaps Reggie will do a Free Agency Preview.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2004
  3. Tampa GM

    Tampa GM Registered User

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    I agree with Donga that there shouldnt my any age limit regarding Euro players and the Mountain Dew. No way a juniordefenceman or forward(a forward might but those come around every decade or so while tons of players in the CHL will score 100 points) will score those points that is necessary. I cant even remember the last time a junior was starting goalie.
     
  4. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    Lehtonen would have have qualifed for the award two years in a row. Whomever drafts Schwartz may end up in the same boat.

    Remember, it's not supposed to reward a team with a 23 year old prospect who was draft 6 years earlier. It's for the cream of the crop.

    That said, it doesn't mean certain Euro qualifying criteria can't be re-looked at.
     
  5. Tampa GM

    Tampa GM Registered User

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    How many other goalies in the past has been able to get those numbers? From a previous post I do believe that I had checked and NO swedish juniordefenceman has NEVER scored those points that is necessary.

    During the last two years 11OHL players, 5WHL and 2QMJHL(Couldnt find any stats from 02/03) has scored more then 100 points. I would say its MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to score 100 points in CHL then to qualify for the award if based in Europe. This also means that its worth more to draft people from NA.

    I still strongly recommend that the age limit should be removed or atleast higher for people playing in Europe.
     
  6. kasper11

    kasper11 Registered User

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    I agree there should be tinkering, but there need to be limits. I wouldn't mind seeing the age raised for goalies though, as there are very few goalies who make the NHL before the age of 23 or 24. Dipietro is the only one I can think of who started the season in the NHL this year, while there are a bunch of goalies that are still considered good prospects at that age, Ahonen, Ouellet, Miller, Bryzgalov for instance all entered the season too old to be considered for the award, but were still regarded as top prospects by most.

    One change I would like made is for prospects who make the NHL. Some of the studs from recent drafts made the NHL, so teams couldn't collect money from them, but they still won't be rated high enough to be usefull in the upcoming season. There are a bunch of stud prospects (Staal, Horton, Semin, Tyutin, Krajicek, Brown, Eminger, Stajan to name a few) that gms probably figured had a good chance to make the marks, but surprise promotions ruined that. Meanwhile, scoring 20-30 points with low experience and defense ratings makes these players useless for our league, so in essence teams are being punished for their players being successful.
     
  7. kasper11

    kasper11 Registered User

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    If anybody wants to do the research, and put together a spreadsheet of how many players have reached the thresholds in the various leagues, along with the data for suggested replacements, that could help a lot.
     
  8. Tampa GM

    Tampa GM Registered User

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    Here we go from the SEL, which is the league I know the best.
    Here are the result from Swedish Jury, I only included players drafted in the top 3 rounds.

    Mountain Due

    Forward with more than 30 points in a top European league
    Robert Nilsson (1985) 02/03 41 8+13=21(Did not make it)
    Alexander Steen(1984) 03/04 48 10+14=24(Did not make it)
    Joakim Lindström(1983) 01/02 42 4+3=7(Did not make it)
    Jens Karlsson(1982) 01/02 46 6+9=15(Did not make it)
    Daniel Widing(1982) 00/01 40 6+5=11(Did not make it)
    Jonas Nordqvist(1982) 00/01 35 2+2=4(Did not make it)
    Joel Lundqvist(1982) 01/02 46 12+14=26(Did not make it)
    Daniel Sedin(1980) Did it two times, both in 98/99 and 99/00
    Henrik Sedin(1980) Did it two times, both in 98/99 and 99/00
    Jimmie Olvestad(1980) 99/00 50 6+3=9(Did not make it)
    Christian Berglund(1980) 99/00 43 8+6=14(Did not make it)
    Gabriel Karlsson(1980) 99/00 50 5+3=8(Did not make it)
    Mikael Holmqvist(1979) 97/98 41 2+3=5(Did not make it)
    Kristian Huselius(1978) 97/98 34 2+1=3(Did not make it)
    Mattias Karlin(1979) 98/99 50 2+5=7(Did not make it)
    Marcus Nilsson(1978) 97/98 41 4+7=11(Did not make it)
    Johan Davidsson(1976) 95/96 39 7+11=18(Did not make it)
    Niklas Sundström(1975) 94/95 33 8+13=21(Did not make it)
    Mats Lindgren(1974) 93/94 22 11+6=17(Did not make it)
    Jesper Mattsson(1975) 92/93 40 9+8=17(Did not make it)
    Peter Forsberg(1973) Did it twice, 91/92 and 93/93
    Marcus Naslund(1973) Did it twice, 91/92 and 92/93
    Niclas Sundblad(1973) 91/92 33 9+2=11(Did not make it)
    Fredrik Lindqvist(1973) 92/93 39 9+11=20(Did not make it)

    This means that FOUR!!!! juniorforwards has scored more then those 30 points for the last 10+years.

    I did not include Jonas Johansson, Fredrik Sjöström and other who left for CHL in early age. Sjöström did have 5 points in the SEL back in 00/01 though. Martin Samuelsson has never played in the SEL yet.

    Defenceman with more than 20 points in a top EL
    Niklas Kronvall(1981) 00/01 31 1+9=10(Did not make it)
    Christian Backman(1980) 99/00 27 1+0=1(Did not make it)
    Mattias Ohlund(1976) 94/95 34 6+10=16(Did not make it)
    Kenny Jonsson(1974) 93/94 36 4+13=17(Did not make it)
    Anders Eriksson(1975) 94/95 39 3+6=9(Did not make it)

    No Swedish Juniordefenceman has EVER scored those 20 points that is required. Atleast I couldnt find one.

    Goalie who finishes in the top 5 in either GAA or SVG in a Top EL.

    As far as I know no Swedish goalie has ever been close to this one. Tellqvist didnt make it. Not Lundqvist either. Johan Holmqvist played 33 games as a junior but I doubt that he finished top 5. Liv only played 12 games as a junior.

    Well, lets see..Four Swedish juniors has scored more then 30 points for the last 10+years. How many players in the CHL has scored more then 100 points during the same period? My guess is that over 100 players has done so.
     
  9. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    Sheesh, well that teaches you for drafting a bunch of your fellow Swedes Martin!!

    But seriously, let's not compare the CHL and SEL for hockey prospects. For every top notch prospect PLAYING in the SEL, there are literally dozens of blue chippers in the CHL. Of course the number of CHL prospects meeting the milestone will blow away that of those in the SEL. The fact many of the top Swedish prospects don't play in the SEL is also a major factor on why few of them achieve it. And let's remember, European players like Steen and Nilsson bring the advantage of most likely playing in the SEL at an older age, while players like Staal and Horton start playing in the NHL sooner - and thereby eliminate the possibility to EVER qualify for the MD. And both Steen and Nilsson have a shot to get the award next year if they qualify.

    And I'm not even going to address the Swedish goalie issue. Has Sweden ever had a good goalie prospect? :D

    At some point, it would be good to see how many players based on the existing criteria qualified in every league over the last few years. That will provide a solid perspective on what adjustments need to be made, with the SEL being one of the league's to look at.
     
  10. Tampa GM

    Tampa GM Registered User

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    Steen is not a junior next season which means he is to old for the MD. I also agree that Sweden hasnt had many goalie prospects since Pelle Lindbergh(R.I.P).

    btw Steen has signed for MODO. Does that means I need to trade for him :)?
     
  11. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    Actually Martin - and this might explain some of your concerns and confusion - Steen is only 20 years old. And you only have to be 21 or younger for the MD award to qualify. Steen has two more years to qualify. Nilsson has three more years.

    So you will see in re-doing your analysis players like Alfredsson, Zetterberg, Huselius did in fact qualify for the MD award at various times during their time in the SEL. I'm sure many others on your list did too.

    Given you've been seemingly off on these dates in doing your analysis and just to clarify, this means every Swedish prospect 21 or younger (as of Oct 31st of the given year) could reach those milestones and qualify.
     
  12. Tampa GM

    Tampa GM Registered User

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    I just saw this..Must have a junior aged (21 years or younger as of Sept 30th, 2003).

    Are we talking about juniors or players under 21 years of age? Alexander Steen was born in 1984 and played his last season as a junior in 03/04. Next season he will NOT be a junior but can he still qualify for this award? I dont get it.

    Since Huselius was born in 1978 I guess he can now count 98/99(when he was no longer a junior). Huselius scored 6 goals and 6 assist that year for a total of 12 points.

    Zetterberg had 46 points in 00/01 so I guess he makes it with the 21 years of age rule.

    Alfredsson had 6 points in 92/93(born in 1972). This means that even with this "new" rule only one out of the three players menion did make it.

    If my draftee Corey Locke born in 84 choose to play CHL as an overaged player next year he can actually qualify for this award if he scores 100+ points?
     
  13. Pandastyle

    Pandastyle Registered User

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    I don't recall saying that he was available Martin. :)
     
  14. Donga

    Donga Registered User

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    Another question...

    Compensation picks?? Any confirmations on these yet??
     
  15. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    Martin, you need to clearly read the rules before doing so much evaluation. The rule says the player needs to be 21 or younger as of Sept 30th of that year.

    So for Alfredsson. he turned 22 in Dec of 93', so he was eligible in 93-94 because on Sept 30th he was 21. He had 30 points that year.

    Huselius was still 21 as of Sept 30th of 1999, so his 44 points in 99-00 qualified him.

    For Locke, he is only 20, and won't turn 22 until May of 2005, which means he has TWO MORE YEARS of eligibility to qualify in the OHL as an overager, or more likely, in the AHL. This means that for Locke alone, he may qualify for the MD award four years in a row.

    Take a little time when doing this, and stop making me do the math for you!!
     
  16. Tampa GM

    Tampa GM Registered User

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    Now even I understand this. I guess the words JUNIORS fooled me here.
     
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