Prospects and Marlies Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
83,747
15,764
Mountain Standard Ti
Visit site
Seems to me like a pretty typical number of under-25 players to let go for any organization over a 2-3 year period. There's always tons of turnover at those ages, particularly with ELCs expiring or players having a brief window to show they're up to it after Junior or the NCAA... You usually have a pretty damn good idea of a player's trajectory by the time they turn 22. (Yeah, yeah, there are exceptions... but I'm mainly talking about tweener prospects) This 'Detroit' model people often refer to only makes sense in the context of players who are actually producing in the AHL.

And as you said, that's not even getting into whether any of those listed players was worth keeping around or did/will turn into something... With a brief, superficial skim of that list, I literally don't see a single player where I have any inkling they'll turn into a solid NHLer worth rooing over their departure someday. Harrington could be a 3rd-pairing guy someday, for example, but that's not the type of player you should ever be missing... We're trying to build a championship squad, not a collection of dime-a-dozen, competent NHLers (or as you said yourself, 'minor assets')

(I have a general pet peeve about every 'prospect' seemingly being given infinite time to 'develop' on these boards, though I suppose we all do root for them to develop if we're on here. I honestly don't know what age posters think isn't "too soon" to evaluate a prospect. It seems it's only not "too soon" once a player's literally become an NHLer or their contract expires and no other NHL team picks them up.)

...

I digress, apologies for my mini-rant!

I would think the same scenario will play out with the Hunter picks as well.

They're always world beaters until they aren't.

But then look at one of today's star prospects, Hyman. How old is he?
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
9,039
30
Canada
Going to be a big year for gauthier. Sink of swim time.

That's certainly not true. He's 21, he just finished his first year of pro hockey, and the first year of his ELC. He'll be given this year, and next year still to grow before they make any real decision on him going forward.

And that's not uncommon for a later first round pick...
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
9,039
30
Canada
Seems to me like a pretty typical number of under-25 players to let go for any organization over a 2-3 year period. There's always tons of turnover at those ages, particularly with ELCs expiring or players having a brief window to show they're up to it after Junior or the NCAA... You usually have a pretty damn good idea of a player's trajectory by the time they turn 22. (Yeah, yeah, there are exceptions... but I'm mainly talking about tweener prospects) This 'Detroit' model people often refer to only makes sense in the context of players who are actually producing in the AHL.

And as you said, that's not even getting into whether any of those listed players was worth keeping around or did/will turn into something... With a brief, superficial skim of that list, I literally don't see a single player where I have any inkling they'll turn into a solid NHLer worth rooing over their departure someday. Harrington could be a 3rd-pairing guy someday, for example, but that's not the type of player you should ever be missing... We're trying to build a championship squad, not a collection of dime-a-dozen, competent NHLers (or as you said yourself, 'minor assets')

(I have a general pet peeve about every 'prospect' seemingly being given infinite time to 'develop' on these boards, though I suppose we all do root for them to develop if we're on here. I honestly don't know what age posters think isn't "too soon" to evaluate a prospect. It seems it's only not "too soon" once a player's literally become an NHLer or their contract expires and no other NHL team picks them up.)

...

I digress, apologies for my mini-rant!

Pretty spot on. Most of those players were given years to grow and develop at the pro level, and either stagnated or didn't grow at all. Considering team brought in a ton of highly talented younger prospects, they had reached their time of whether or not they had made enough of a mark to earn another contract.

And that list isn't exactly totally right either. The Leafs didn't resign Colin Smith, but the Marlies did...
 

ErnieLeafs

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
11,981
2,076
Odd that someone would apparently prefer prospects to do poorly in order to keep hype down, instead of performing well and being better prospects.

I hope for the best with every kid, and I also wanted his older brother before Buffalo picked him.

This will keep him hungry and drive him, while Wisconson will help grow his game and fill out his frame.

Needs lots of time, but has a lot to work with.
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
9,039
30
Canada
I would think the same scenario will play out with the Hunter picks as well.

They're always world beaters until they aren't.

But then look at one of today's star prospects, Hyman. How old is he?

There's different context to that though. You know that too so I'm unsure why you're asking that question.

Hyman is older but he's coming off his first pro season last year. Just like Gauthier. Some of the other listed players have gone through their full ELC with little to no growth shown. Hyman's shown growth and outplayed some of them in his first pro season.

He'll be shown similar levels of commitment if he stagnates in the next two seasons though. This isn't anything to be made a question of.
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
9,039
30
Canada
I hope for the best with every kid, and I also wanted his older brother before Buffalo picked him.

This will keep him hungry and drive him, while Wisconson will help grow his game and fill out his frame.

Needs lots of time, but has a lot to work with.

Thanks for stating something that's pretty typical of almost every prospect drafted.

I think people are confused as to why you even bothered mentioning it. I don't think anyone expected him to light the world on fire, no was there much out of hand hype starting to build
 

Mad Brills*

Guest
hilarious, because gauthier's scoring numbers aren't that good.

I do think he's a likely nhler, but his ceiling isn't anything more than a bottom 6 tweener center.
 

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
4,013
hilarious, because gauthier's scoring numbers aren't that good.

I do think he's a likely nhler, but his ceiling isn't anything more than a bottom 6 tweener center.

I also think he'll become a bottom 6 NHLer for us at some point in the next couple of years, I don't think that's a bad thing though. Any team is lucky when a late 1st round pick manages to make it to the NHL and stays there. I still think Gauthier has a bottom 6 career ahead of him, Gaustad or B.Boyle potential.
 

AlienWorkShop

No, Ben! No!
Oct 30, 2004
3,455
328
But then look at one of today's star prospects, Hyman. How old is he?
Just turned 24, and I'd argue he's a guy who definitely needs to make his mark this year. NCAA prospects are lower risk in the sense you can have a couple more years of observing their development before needing to sign them, but they also pretty much need to prove themselves right away if they're starting in the pros at 22-23.

With Hyman, he may be a solid 3rd-4th liner now, which is obviously useful, particularly with his $0.9M cap hit. What irks me a bit are posters assuming someone like Tyler Biggs will just turn into a solid 4th liner someday, when it's readily apparent he just can't hack it. (And perhaps a prospect will eventually hack it after you let him go, but at some point you need to decide on a prospect. They don't just steadily +1 Overall every year like in an EA game... That 50 contract limit is a real constraint!)

I don't hold out much hope for Gauthier, but he's got another couple years on his ELC, so might as well see what we can squeeze out of him. If he's not showing much after that though, it's usually a better bet to cut your losses than string him along with a 1-year, 2-way contract or whatever (depending on your short-term depth needs, etc., etc.)
 

saltming

Fan Addict
Oct 6, 2015
19,040
7,053
Other
I also think he'll become a bottom 6 NHLer for us at some point in the next couple of years, I don't think that's a bad thing though. Any team is lucky when a late 1st round pick manages to make it to the NHL and stays there. I still think Gauthier has a bottom 6 career ahead of him, Gaustad or B.Boyle potential.

This is what people in general seem to not understand. Freddie is a good pick progressing well for where he was picked.
 

Bullseye

Registered User
Jun 14, 2012
6,931
370
Niagara
Bracco with a nice game - out for the final 30 seconds with Sweden's extra attacker on - makes 3 key defensive plays. Woll finished strong including a beautiful poke-check on a breakaway.
 

RyanOhReally

Registered User
Jan 21, 2015
2,368
1
Georgetown, ON
Arbitration pending to buyout Jared Cowen (25)
Clock ticking to sign Tony Cameranesi (22; offered AHL contract instead)
Didn't qualify Colin Smith (23)
Didn't qualify Stuart Percy (23)
Didn't qualify Sam Carrick (24)
Traded Scott Harrington (23)
Traded Jerem Morin (24)
Traded Cody Donaghey (19)
Traded Ryan Rupert (21)
Traded Casey Bailey (24)
Traded Richard Panik (24)
Waived Petter Granberg (23)
Traded Chris Gibson (22)
Traded Matt Finn (21)
Traded Tom Nilsson (22)
Traded Taylor Beck (24)
Traded Carter Verhaeghe (20)
Didn't qualify Max Everson (22)
Traded Jamie Devane (24)
Didn't re-sign Brandon Kozun (25)
Traded Tim Erixon (24)
Traded Tyler Biggs (22)
Didn't qualify Eric Knodel (25)
Didn't qualify Andrew MacWilliam (25)
Traded Brad Ross (23)
Traded Greg McKegg (23)

Traded David Broll (22)
Traded Carter Ashton (23)
Traded Jerry D'Amigo (23)
Didn't qualify Kenny Ryan (22)
Didn't qualify Cameron Abney (23)


Red marks Shanahan's arrival. (Apr. 11, 2014)
Orange marks Dubas & Hunter interim duties. (Apr 12, 2015)
Black marks Lamierello's arrival. (Jul. 23, 2015)



I am not trying to comment on whether these were the right or wrong decisions to make.
Just laying out the facts regarding Toronto moving young pieces (25 and under), where the argument can be made, "waiting for [the prospect] to develop". There actually have been a lot for a team "valuing youth", "trying to build from within" and "develop their own players".




Now, my opinion: I feel Lou has demonstrated (and the crew as a whole since Shanahan arrived, but especially Lou) a penchant for getting rid of a player that another regime brought in. I do not think that is good enough reason to trade a player, and I have had some qualms with Lou's management of minor assets.

It's almost as if management wants to stock the cupboard with elite skill...

Judging by how management has vocalized their affinity for Freddy, I wouldn't be surprised if his skillset on the defensive side is what sets him aside from the general bottom feeders they've given away.
 

crump

~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Feb 26, 2004
14,744
6,498
Ontariariario
With Laich's contract up next year, that will be Freddie's year. One more season to work on face offs and a little more offense with being a year older. He's a young guy still.
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
83,747
15,764
Mountain Standard Ti
Visit site
There's different context to that though. You know that too so I'm unsure why you're asking that question.

Hyman is older but he's coming off his first pro season last year. Just like Gauthier. Some of the other listed players have gone through their full ELC with little to no growth shown. Hyman's shown growth and outplayed some of them in his first pro season.

He'll be shown similar levels of commitment if he stagnates in the next two seasons though. This isn't anything to be made a question of.

That's one way to justify a position, ignore actual age, and focus on where the player has been developed.

Hyman 24, Gauthier 21 and here you are saying Hyman gets to age 25-26 but Gauthier get to age 22?

That's what I was trying to say, Hyman is new to Leafs so he's a great prospect whereas a player 2-3 years younger is nearing their end.
 

Bullseye

Registered User
Jun 14, 2012
6,931
370
Niagara
Grundstrom left the USA/Sweden game yesterday and didn't return. Anyone have any details on this? I missed that section of the game-it was in the first period.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->