Prospect WORST Team

[jmelm]

Calgary is the weakest IMO, No Skill in that prospect system. The future isnt bright at all.

I never understood why they traded down in the 2004 draft and selected Chris Chucko when they could have selected Travis Zajak, or even Wolski or Schremp.

You are absolutely right that this is a huge issue organizationally. I know when you draft, you are looking for the best asset and not necessarily to fill needs. But when you look at recent draftees such as Nystrom, Chucko, Pelech and others, it just seems like they are ignoring this void.

 

[petec1978*]

Not true.

Its very true.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

I never understood why they traded down in the 2004 draft and selected Chris Chucko when they could have selected Travis Zajak, or even Wolski or Schremp.
.

It seems they wanted one of Zajack or Chucko when both were available they traded down and got one of them still.

Chucko is going to be better then Schremp and Wolski. Even the team that eventually drafted Schremp apparently wanted Chucko first.

 

[petec1978*]

having a one or two studs is more important than having depth.

Not when you're a team like Tampa with an established core (ie we've already got our "studs") which is looking to sustain its elite position in the league over the next half a decade.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

Those guys are not premier prospect and premier talent at all. Neither of Boyd, Ryder and Chuko have the potential to be stars in this league. For many years i havent seen a great offensive talent comin out of their system.

Oh I get it. Because the Flames drafted 10th in 2002, 24th in 2004, and 24th in 2005 as well, and because they didn't draft a potential offensive star at those poistions they suck. What an amazing human being you are.

Next time Illya Kovalchuk, or Marion Gaborik are available at those positions then the Flames will nab them.

 

[looooob]

I never understood why they traded down in the 2004 draft and selected Chris Chucko when they could have selected Travis Zajak, or even Wolski or Schremp.

You are absolutely right that this is a huge issue organizationally. I know when you draft, you are looking for the best asset and not necessarily to fill needs. But when you look at recent draftees such as Nystrom, Chucko, Pelech and others, it just seems like they are ignoring this void.

only time will tell

organization seemed pretty high on Chucko, and in the end the trade down netted them Boyd and Prust also. nothing tremendous perhaps, but Boyd actually looks like he might have 2nd line upside ? (upside I said) and Prust will likely play also

in the 'new' NHL it seems like there will always be players available for signing to fill talent voids.

no, not home run players maybe...but how many home run players were available after Nystrom or Pelech? a few maybe...but the Kovalchuks, Heatleys and Malkins of the world weren't still sitting there to be drafted

(I will acknowledge the Flames have a dearth of high end offensive talent in the system)

 

[jmelm]

It seems they wanted one of Zajack or Chucko when both were available they traded down and got one of them still.

Chucko is going to be better then Schremp and Wolski. Even the team that eventually drafted Schremp apparently wanted Chucko first.

I haven't seen him personally so I hope you are right.

I just remember everyone saying that Chucko projects more as a 2-way character guy rather than a pure offensive threat, which is what Calgary needs more of.

But if they got the best player available then good for them. But if Zajac turns out to be the real deal they lost, IMO.

 

[flambers]

I haven't seen him personally so I hope you are right.

I just remember everyone saying that Chucko projects more as a 2-way character guy rather than a pure offensive threat, which is what Calgary needs more of.

But if they got the best player available then good for them. But if Zajac turns out to be the real deal they lost, IMO.

I bet you have never even seen the guy play. How can you label him as 2 way guy, what I have read he will develop into a power forward and he is at College Hockey to develop his speed and skill.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

I haven't seen him personally so I hope you are right.

I just remember everyone saying that Chucko projects more as a 2-way character guy rather than a pure offensive threat, which is what Calgary needs more of.

But if they got the best player available then good for them. But if Zajac turns out to be the real deal they lost, IMO.

Kris Chucko plays like Adam Deadmarsh or Ryan Smyth. When drafted in 2004 his draft bio reads like a young Jarome Iginla.. great package, a project, needs work on skating. I'd rather have a Ryan Smyth or a Deadmarsh then a "pure offensive player" like say... Valeri Bure or Marc Savard.

People tend to forget what helps teams win around here, too much focus on flashy but sh*t players.

 

[Roy G Biv*]

Kris Chucko plays like Adam Deadmarsh or Ryan Smyth. When drafted in 2004 his draft bio reads like a young Jarome Iginla.. great package, a project, needs work on skating. I'd rather have a Ryan Smyth or a Deadmarsh then a "pure offensive player" like say... Valeri Bure or Marc Savard.

People tend to forget what helps teams win around here, too much focus on flashy but sh*t players.

Is that why the Flames are doing so well?

zing.

sorry, it was a perfect setup

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

Is that why the Flames are doing so well?

Oh boy, ya got me. And look at the success the all offence no defence Pens are having this year.

 

[Squeaky]

Oh boy, ya got me. And look at the success the all offence no defence Pens are having this year.

Nobody is saying that there is anything wrong with hard-working, gritty, character players. They're super. Yaaaaaaay character. What people are saying is the Flames could use some talented players to go along with them.

If we were talking about the Pens, people would talk about their need for balance, and well, a bottom half of their team.

 

[Roy G Biv*]

Oh boy, ya got me. And look at the success the all offence no defence Pens are having this year.

Exactly, so both extremes don't work.

 

[Hasbro]

When are we getting new ratings?

 

[Dominator13]

Kostitsyn was overrated. And in a strong draft where he went top 10. He hasnt done anything yet.

fot the LAST time i'm saying this. Andrei Kostytsin started last year in the AHL as the 2nd youngest player after Bergeron not knowing english at all recovering form his epeletic(sp?) problems in a league that was alot better than previous years too. Instead of playing in the CHL with Carter, Richards and Phaneuf where he would of probably creamed the OHL jsut like he did in the WJC on a very poor Bielorussian team, he dicedid to pay with men. Jarvis, knowing that Kostytsin is a PROJECT who has extremely alot of raw skills without a proper tool box decided to start him on the 4th line along side superstar Raitis Ivanans to learn the defensive side of the game and the no-puck positioning plays, even so he manged to put 12 goals in the net, just imagined what he would of done if he played on the first line with Plecks and Higgins last year? being only 19? and conciderd a project even before he was drafted? see what a mean.......

it was only his first year as a pro, give him time.

to evreyone read this before calling Andrei Kostytsin a bust!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flames Will]

Flames Drafting trends

OK - since everyone wants to pick on the flames - lets look at the drafts since Darryl Sutter has been in charge - obviously we will all agree that Button did not draft the best players available - but I woudl argue that Sutter has done a tremendous job!
2003 - barely on the job, Sutter was only involved in the selection of our first round pick - he was Adamant about taking Dion Phaneuf - and I do not think anyone woudl argue that selection - I might add he had Mike Richards tabled as his next best selection if Phaneuf were off the table at #9 - aparently Mr. Sutter knew a little somehting about the talent that Richards and Phaneuf have...

2004 - Positioned to draft 19th overall, Sutter saw a need to acquire more picks so essentially in return for Zajac (who he could have got at #19) he got a different player who will be very well suited as a power forward on the Flames in the future in Chucko, they also got Brandon Prust who is looking like a defensive gem, and Dustin Boyd, who tore up the midgets and is now tearing up the 'dub. Talented - I would think so. So the choice was Zajac or Chucko, Boyd and Prust - again I think Sutter did very well as it appears he got three NHL destined players for one - and all three figure to be in the top 3 lines in the NHL. Although with trading down we could have taken Shremp, Salmonsson or Bolland 9the next three highest drafted forwards after Chucko - again I think Chucko is a good choice when considering the other options).

2005 - Again the fates were against the Flames with drafting 26th overall - but in taking Pelech I beleive the Flames did well, though i honestly believe it takes a good year before you can truly assess the talent that has been drafted. Keep in mind that Sutter did something he has never before done while a GM in Clagary - he traded up to get Dan Ryder in the third - and I think we will all agree that Ryder has exceeded his draft position already.

Sure you can state the flames have drafted poorly and they did most of the late 90's, but since 2003 we have done exceptionally well in getting talented players in all the rounds and quality leaders as well.

There are several teams that have poorer drafting records since 2003 then the Flames - and honestly getting one potential superstar in Phaneuf in three drafts with our only top 20 pick in that duration is pretty good.
So enough bashing on the Flames - we will admit that pre Sutter our drafting was poor - chosing Tkachuk over Samsanov, Fata over Tanguay, while Saprykin and Krahn were decent pick ups - the frist two examples were ones that the scouting staff argued with Button over and he used his position to chose the wrong player both times and we know the damage it caused. Those days are over and things have changed the Flames are no longer that weak talent pool they one were.

 

[se7en*]

Chucko is going to be better then Schremp and Wolski.

Good God, I thought I heard it all!

Got any real basis for that?

Back on topic, I'd have to say...Calgary.

 

[jcpenny]

OK - since everyone wants to pick on the flames - lets look at the drafts since Darryl Sutter has been in charge - obviously we will all agree that Button did not draft the best players available - but I woudl argue that Sutter has done a tremendous job!
2003 - barely on the job, Sutter was only involved in the selection of our first round pick - he was Adamant about taking Dion Phaneuf - and I do not think anyone woudl argue that selection - I might add he had Mike Richards tabled as his next best selection if Phaneuf were off the table at #9 - aparently Mr. Sutter knew a little somehting about the talent that Richards and Phaneuf have...

2004 - Positioned to draft 19th overall, Sutter saw a need to acquire more picks so essentially in return for Zajac (who he could have got at #19) he got a different player who will be very well suited as a power forward on the Flames in the future in Chucko, they also got Brandon Prust who is looking like a defensive gem, and Dustin Boyd, who tore up the midgets and is now tearing up the 'dub. Talented - I would think so. So the choice was Zajac or Chucko, Boyd and Prust - again I think Sutter did very well as it appears he got three NHL destined players for one - and all three figure to be in the top 3 lines in the NHL. Although with trading down we could have taken Shremp, Salmonsson or Bolland 9the next three highest drafted forwards after Chucko - again I think Chucko is a good choice when considering the other options).

2005 - Again the fates were against the Flames with drafting 26th overall - but in taking Pelech I beleive the Flames did well, though i honestly believe it takes a good year before you can truly assess the talent that has been drafted. Keep in mind that Sutter did something he has never before done while a GM in Clagary - he traded up to get Dan Ryder in the third - and I think we will all agree that Ryder has exceeded his draft position already.

Sure you can state the flames have drafted poorly and they did most of the late 90's, but since 2003 we have done exceptionally well in getting talented players in all the rounds and quality leaders as well.

There are several teams that have poorer drafting records since 2003 then the Flames - and honestly getting one potential superstar in Phaneuf in three drafts with our only top 20 pick in that duration is pretty good.
So enough bashing on the Flames - we will admit that pre Sutter our drafting was poor - chosing Tkachuk over Samsanov, Fata over Tanguay, while Saprykin and Krahn were decent pick ups - the frist two examples were ones that the scouting staff argued with Button over and he used his position to chose the wrong player both times and we know the damage it caused. Those days are over and things have changed the Flames are no longer that weak talent pool they one were.

I'm the one who started this mess and its my fault. While its not true that they have no skill, i have not been impressed by their offensive prospects for quite some time. Boyd is a great player and so is Chucko but that is not a lot. When is the last time you the flames had an offensive prospect to get really excited about? To be honest thats all this team needs to step foward cuz they have everything else.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

Good God, I thought I heard it all!

Got any real basis for that?

Back on topic, I'd have to say...Calgary.

Come back to this debate in 5-10 years, and there is little doubt in my mind that Kris Chucko is going to have the more successful NHL then Schremp.

 

[se7en*]

My bad, let me rephrase that: is there any basis for that outside that Schremp is an Oiler and Chucko is a Flame?

Because I have little doubt in my mind that Schremp is better NOW, and no one knows how they will pan out in the future.

Man, some of the comedy on HF is pure gold!

 

[Flames Will]

I'm the one who started this mess and its my fault. While its not true that they have no skill, i have not been impressed by their offensive prospects for quite some time. Boyd is a great player and so is Chucko but that is not a lot. When is the last time you the flames had an offensive prospect to get really excited about? To be honest thats all this team needs to step foward cuz they have everything else.

Honestly, if you think back to 1988, who would have thought Joe Nieuwendyk was going to be the offensive force he was? Who in 1987 thought Theo Fleury was goignt o be the offensive force he was? Or lets look at Martin St Louis (who the Flames owned his rights at one point) who thought he woudl ever win an Art Ross trophy?
You can not dictate that just because the prospect is not viewed as being the best to begin with that these same prospects might not be better suited to adapt to the NHL game - that is something only they can dictate.
Just as an example - lets look back at the 1993 draft - Alex Daigle was supposedly "alexander the great", he was going to be the next Mario and Wayne, without doubt the best offenesive talent int he draft. Well, he definatly had talent - just no heart, and could not translate his success to the NHL. In fact if you were to redo the draft who woudl ahve taken him over Koivu (drafted 21st overall), Miroslav Satan (drafted 111th overall) or Pavel Demitra (drafted 227th overall). POoint is neither Demitra or Satan were deemed as high calibre talents, and yet their games translated to the NHL very well.

looking at a more recent draft year - who though Pavel Datsyuk could develop into a scoring winger in the NHL?, he was drafted 171 st by Detroit and never cracked the Hockey News top 50 prospects - obviously not a top calibre prospect - but while Rico Fata was ranked int he top 50 - who actually prevailed with more skill and a better career.
In 1999, Patirk Stefan and Jamie Lundmark were supposed to be the benchmarks and yet it was the 26th pick by Ottawa (Martin Havlat) that seemed to exceed expectations.
Will Boyd and/Or Chucko develop the way Niewy, or others developed? its possible - and then again it might never happen - only time will tell and until then I think this debate should be put off till next year when more of our talents have a chance to develop.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

My bad, let me rephrase that: is there any basis for that outside that Schremp is an Oiler and Chucko is a Flame?

Because I have little doubt in my mind that Schremp is better NOW, and no one knows how they will pan out in the future.

Man, some of the comedy on HF is pure gold!

There is plenty of basis, plenty. Chucko is projected to be a power forward type of player, he plays like a Ryan Smyth or a Adam Deadmarsh. He plays tough, mean physical and is a two-way player.

Schremp is a one-way gets his points on the powerplay type of player. Chucko is the type of player teams have to win, Schremp is the type of players teams bench in order to win.

Mike Comrie got by the first couple years soley on points, Schremp will probably do the same. He will come in, shock and awe alot of people, but fade away.

 

[HFNHL Commish]

These threads are getting so predictable, I don't even need to read them anymore to know what the outcome will be...

Basic plot outline:

1) Start a thread that deals in absolutes (i.e. best of this, worst of that).

2) Wait for someone to come along and single out a player/team as being the best/worst.

3) Cue the rose-colored glasses brigade to defend their favorite player/team with outlandish statements and comparisons.

4) Wait for someone to point out a spelling mistake.

5) Stand back and watch the carnage that ensues.

6) If the Leafs and/or Habs are mentioned, repeat 1-5 as necessary until moderator sees fit to close thread.

 

[Squeaky]

Honestly, if you think back to 1988, who would have thought Joe Nieuwendyk was going to be the offensive force he was? Who in 1987 thought Theo Fleury was goignt o be the offensive force he was? Or lets look at Martin St Louis (who the Flames owned his rights at one point) who thought he woudl ever win an Art Ross trophy?
You can not dictate that just because the prospect is not viewed as being the best to begin with that these same prospects might not be better suited to adapt to the NHL game - that is something only they can dictate.
Just as an example - lets look back at the 1993 draft - Alex Daigle was supposedly "alexander the great", he was going to be the next Mario and Wayne, without doubt the best offenesive talent int he draft. Well, he definatly had talent - just no heart, and could not translate his success to the NHL. In fact if you were to redo the draft who woudl ahve taken him over Koivu (drafted 21st overall), Miroslav Satan (drafted 111th overall) or Pavel Demitra (drafted 227th overall). POoint is neither Demitra or Satan were deemed as high calibre talents, and yet their games translated to the NHL very well.

looking at a more recent draft year - who though Pavel Datsyuk could develop into a scoring winger in the NHL?, he was drafted 171 st by Detroit and never cracked the Hockey News top 50 prospects - obviously not a top calibre prospect - but while Rico Fata was ranked int he top 50 - who actually prevailed with more skill and a better career.
In 1999, Patirk Stefan and Jamie Lundmark were supposed to be the benchmarks and yet it was the 26th pick by Ottawa (Martin Havlat) that seemed to exceed expectations.
Will Boyd and/Or Chucko develop the way Niewy, or others developed? its possible - and then again it might never happen - only time will tell and until then I think this debate should be put off till next year when more of our talents have a chance to develop.

The thing about prospects is, there's always a batch who could improve with another year. They come every year, so arguments like that can be used every year. Arguments like that are flawed from the get-go anyways. Sure, we never know how prospects will pan out. Sure, guys come out of nowhere every year, and first overall picks can bust. It's all just some random game, and none of us can see the future. If that's the atitude, what in the heck is the point of reading/posting at a place like HockeysFuture? All anyone does here is look at prospects and try to predict how things are going to happen, if we're just going to dismiss those predictions because development is unpredictable, what's the point of even having these boards?

 

[knight44]

Schremp is a a amazing player, to say he isnt as good as Chucko is plain stupid. Schremp has what 32 points in 7 games, after their back to back games this week on thursday and Friday he will be somewhere in the high 40's. If that doesnt show talent then please tell me what talent is. Yes he is a 19 year old in teh OHL but last year richards, Perry, Carter were all 19 years old and never came close to playing as good as Schremp is playing, on a team that considered to be a horrible team this year. In my opinion Schremp will be a great player in the NHL yes he wiill get alot of PP goals but he will get alot of points even strength, the problem here is that he is american and alot of canadian fans dont give the respect to american prospects which they are due. For example Kessel this guy is amazing he basically dominated the World juniors last year aside from Crosby and bergeron. But from what i hear canadian fans are like meh he will be good but he isnt even close to Crosby. Yeah he isnt a crosby but he is atleast as good to but upp 100+ points a year.

With that aside i think the leafs just over rate every player they get not just prospects. I live in toronto and i remember when they picked Druken off waviers and i heard leaf fans saying oh yeah Druken is under rated he can get 30+ goals i just laughed i mean come on. If they think Druken could do that then they can make out ragious claims like one of their prospects to be a player like jagr. Steen to be the next forsberg or better. Coloiacivo to be a better d-man then leetch, Wellwood to be their version of Spezza. Rask to be a better goalie then Price, and will be like Loungo for them in 2-3 years and carry them. (I live in Toronto and you will be surprized how much i hear this when i go to bars, games, and walk on the streets.) When will the leaf fans stop over rating their players? i dont know!. I still strongly think they have they have the worst prospect depth in the league, they have horrid drafting they have for the most part no good late round drafting. They do have pritty good drafting in like the 1st 4 rounds and that can be a over sight. I mean anyone can draft good players in the 1-3 rounds and after that its more less hit and miss. Most of their prospects in the late rounds are misses, but the leaf fans keep on over rating even those prospects. Sorry to tell you guys but your late round drafting is horrid and its nothing compared to Detroit's and Colorado's late round drafting which they seem to keep on picking up great guys even in the 7th round. I know their will be a leaf fan posting soon listing AGIAN on all their prospects and saying why i am wrong, but please dont do it cause it was allready done. Just live with the fact your prospects are nothing compared to other teams. You guys will be last in the league in depth till you get better scouts, and thats the harsh reality that you leaf fans need to realize!