Prospect Info: Prospect and Marlies Thread: 2017 - 2018 (continued) Part II

[ULF_55]

Not a bad start but he's no Connor Brown.

Well, it would be excellent if he made himself a valuable asset.

Might not be a fit for the Leafs, but as an asset he could be used as a small piece of a deal for a #1.

 

[Walshy7]

Where do you see him in the line up.
ATM I have grundstrom pencilled in and Johnsson.
Assuming I've and Leo are gone does Bracco fill a 4th line spot?

Bracco is RW right? He isn’t taking any of our current RW out of the lineup. We are keeping nylander and marner for sure obviously, brown is much loved and cheap. Kapanen has adapted his role to suit 4th line. Pure offensive Bracco won’t beat any of those goes, last 12 games 1 goal 12 assists suggest his shot isn’t good enough or not used enough. Bracco is prime talent to be added to an pacakage for a dman imo (or a center too I suppose)

 

[saltming]

I can see him there much like Kapanen has to start his career, eventually moving up to replace departing players like Kapanen will.

I have no issue with that. It's time to get that steady flow of talent into the line up.

 

[saltming]

Bracco is RW right? He isn’t taking any of our current RW out of the lineup. We are keeping nylander and marner for sure obviously, brown is much loved and cheap. Kapanen has adapted his role to suit 4th line. Pure offensive Bracco won’t beat any of those goes, last 12 games 1 goal 12 assists suggest his shot isn’t good enough or not used enough. Bracco is prime talent to be added to an pacakage for a dman imo (or a center too I suppose)

I think bracco was always a setup guy. I remember the tag Marner lite for him (even though he's stockier)

 

[stickty111]

Bracco is RW right? He isn’t taking any of our current RW out of the lineup. We are keeping nylander and marner for sure obviously, brown is much loved and cheap. Kapanen has adapted his role to suit 4th line. Pure offensive Bracco won’t beat any of those goes, last 12 games 1 goal 12 assists suggest his shot isn’t good enough or not used enough. Bracco is prime talent to be added to an pacakage for a dman imo (or a center too I suppose)

Except he isnt pure offense. His work ethic and defensive game is underrated. I could care less about goals. He isnt a goal scorer and is a playmaker. You never let an elite talent go just because you have other players ahead of them.
Also give me a Bracco over a Connor Brown everytime.
PS: Knowing your stance on small players, I have a feeling you would like him a more if he had the required size that you want.
I love how people say "he is no Connor Brown" as if to take a shot at Bracco. People dont like being wrong about players so im not surprised they make that comment.

 

[stickty111]

I think bracco was always a setup guy. I remember the tag Marner lite for him (even though he's stockier)

Yup he is a playmaker.
Annoying people say he should be used in a package. Bracco has had a very solid rookie season but no we have Brown ahead of him, so Bracco must be traded!

 

[saltming]

Yup he is a playmaker.
Annoying people say he should be used in a package. Bracco has had a very solid rookie season but no we have Brown ahead of him, so Bracco must be traded!

I like brown but if bracco can take the next step I think he would easily replace brown.
Bracco is a guy that if he turns out could drive a line

 

[ULF_55]

Yup he is a playmaker.
Annoying people say he should be used in a package. Bracco has had a very solid rookie season but no we have Brown ahead of him, so Bracco must be traded!

I'd rather have a #1 defender than another #2 winger.

If Bracco can help eliminate a need on the team or in a trade why would you care?

Making the NHL team better is the goal of the development squad(s) ... i.e. the Crest not the name.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Another great game by Lilly. His game is night and day different from the beginning of the season. So many times today he showed great poise when he got pressure from multiple forceheckers. His ability to weave around players and carrying the puck out of the zone is beautiful. I counted 3 times, Marincin pinched or got trapped up the ice and Lilly had to play the odd man rush coming at him and he played all 3 of them absolutely outstandingly. I thought we had gotten past these drills since Rosen was no longer paired with Lilly but I guess Lilly just has that effect on his d-partners.

My only complaint about his game today is he would've been better served to pass the puck off to his teammates when he has a lane instead of hanging on to the puck a little longer while he's skating it up the ice. Though, the two times I saw him skate into the O-zone and dump it deep/ turn it over was when the forward group went for a change. Maybe it's a designed play for a line change.

Overall though, I'm super giddy watching him. One more quality year in the AHL and this kid will be ready to handle a big role with the buds.

Other than Lilly, for the fwd group, Bracco looked good today, got absolutely robbed on a gimme play (I think it was on the PP, tho Marlies wrecked the Laval team in o-zone 5 on 5 possession). Grundstrom had a standard Grundstrom game, good on the body, always hounds the puck and gets in front of the net. Engvall's speed is very noticeable and he looks like a good player that could potentially develop for us. Moore was good too, the kid has some underrated skill. Timashov finally looked good (other games I've watched he was underwhelming). Goat looked like he has a whole different gear right now. The kid looked pretty damn fast, tho maybe my eyes might be deceiving me.

For the D men, Borgman is just a ton of fun to watch. You can tell the guy is clearly a notch above the rest of the guys. He pretty much makes plays at will and carries the puck fearlessly. I know we saw the odd puck rush from time to time from him with the Leafs but Babs seems to have killed his creativity quite a bit trying to turn him into a shutdown type guy. All in all, I think we have a real impact d-man with Borgman. He might be a quality 2 way PMD if we allow him to play with more creativity and risk. Other than Borg and Lilly, the rest of the D was alright. Holl and Marincin were steady. Loverde looks very good and seems to be a good team guy for the kids. Rosen got a goal but wasn't too noticeable for me which I guess is a good thing because he tends to be a turnover machine sometimes.

Love the in depth Liljegren updates as the season comes to an end. Keep ‘em up!

 

[Walshy7]

Except he isnt pure offense. His work ethic and defensive game is underrated. I could care less about goals. He isnt a goal scorer and is a playmaker. You never let an elite talent go just because you have other players ahead of them.
Also give me a Bracco over a Connor Brown everytime.
PS: Knowing your stance on small players, I have a feeling you would like him a more if he had the required size that you want.
I love how people say "he is no Connor Brown" as if to take a shot at Bracco. People dont like being wrong about players so im not surprised they make that comment.

Yeah ok, big rant for Mis-interpreting my post. I don’t particularly like brown that much myself, but knowing how our coach feels about him I’m going out on a limb and gonna say he is staying for as long as babs is here. Bracco compared to Kapanen and brown isn’t close defensively either, unless you think he takes marner or nylanders spot. I don’t have a problem with small players I have a problem when almost all your wingers a small players.

It has nothing to do with being wrong either I like Bracco he is just too similar to what we already have.

 

[67Cup]

I suppose it is inevitable that fans on a site called Hockey’s Future will tend to overvalue prospects in the minors compared to players who have already made the NHL. A couple of Bracco fans have a particularly notable case of the syndrome, however.

Bracco is making good progress, especially in the last quarter of the season. I’m happy to see that. But let’s see him score at that rate for a lengthy part of next season before we pencil him in over young but established NHL ers with a 200 foot game.

 

[Knies iT]

Bracco is RW right? He isn’t taking any of our current RW out of the lineup. We are keeping nylander and marner for sure obviously, brown is much loved and cheap. Kapanen has adapted his role to suit 4th line. Pure offensive Bracco won’t beat any of those goes, last 12 games 1 goal 12 assists suggest his shot isn’t good enough or not used enough. Bracco is prime talent to be added to an pacakage for a dman imo (or a center too I suppose)

Brown has 1.5 years left on his deal and is a role player who may price himself out. I'd look at trading Brown as a rental before an unproven prospect in Bracco who would fetch very little despite his AHL numbers (if negotiations came to that).

 

[saltming]

I suppose it is inevitable that fans on a site called Hockey’s Future will tend to overvalue prospects in the minors compared to players who have already made the NHL. A couple of Bracco fans have a particularly notable case of the syndrome, however.

Bracco is making good progress, especially in the last quarter of the season. I’m happy to see that. But let’s see him score at that rate for a lengthy part of next season before we pencil him in over young but established NHL ers with a 200 foot game.

Nice of you to say so but IF you read the post we are talking about POTENTIAL and POSSIBILITIES.
That seems reasonable as it's about what could happen in the future.

 

[saltming]

Yeah ok, big rant for Mis-interpreting my post. I don’t particularly like brown that much myself, but knowing how our coach feels about him I’m going out on a limb and gonna say he is staying for as long as babs is here. Bracco compared to Kapanen and brown isn’t close defensively either, unless you think he takes marner or nylanders spot. I don’t have a problem with small players I have a problem when almost all your wingers a small players.

It has nothing to do with being wrong either I like Bracco he is just too similar to what we already have.

Bracco has improved defensively since being moved to Windsor. If he keeps that up he might become better than brown in that then add his offence and I'm sure Babcock would make the switch

 

[nobody]

I agree with the posters above me. Bracco definitely has the ability to someday drive his own line in the NHL. And he's being severely underrated for his overall game. This kid was in and out of the lineup so much to start the year and it had nothing to do with his ability to play. The Marlies coaching staff didn't want to over expose him and they had a ton of warm bodies waiting to get into the lineup. It wasn't until probably mid-late January that Bracco became a regular in the lineup and since that point he's been spectacular.

He isn't on Connor Browns level when it comes to a complete game but I think he's got a ton more creativity offensively than Brownie. I'm a huge brownie fan and I've been pumping his tires since his -63 Erie days. Even to this day I believe there is a ton more offense in his game. He just needs to be put in a position to succeed. You don't win ROTY in the AHL or OHL MVP scoring championship without having exceptional abilities. He and Bracco are both premium playmakers. Bracco has an average shot ala Mitch Marner meanwhile Brownie had a f***ing rocket. Brownie knew his defensive game would get him an NHL spot as a rookie and he has worked his tail off to earn it and change his game quite a bit. Bracco is in the same boat right now where he'd trying his best to become a defensively responsible guy first and offense second. I think one more year in the AHL is probably a must but after that we will reap the rewards for developing yet another quality kid.

Same story here for Brooks too. Brooks is an NHL player down the line. His biggest issue was confidence and he's finally starting to regain his mojo and he's been putting up numbers for the past two months. If he keeps his game up I can see him transition into a solid 3C/ 4C for us. Though he's more offensively inclined right now and would need to seriously focus on his defensive abilities.

 

[Walshy7]

Bracco has improved defensively since being moved to Windsor. If he keeps that up he might become better than brown in that then add his offence and I'm sure Babcock would make the switch

Yeah well I think we’d all be down for that. Let’s hope Bracco achieves this, I’m not attached to brown in any way at all, but Bracco will need to be able to pk and be trusted by babcock in all situations before he’d go with him. Or maybe babcock might change his philosophy that would be good too. I don’t have a problem with Bracco what so ever I just don’t see babcock going for 3 offensive rw’s as good as Bracco has become defensively it’s still not much better than nylander or marner who babcock still don’t trust Late in games

 

[deletethis]

CKSA has like an entire reserve team, so everyone’s time had dropped, but part of it is KHL politics and punishing a guy who is leaving for the NHL.

I believe KHL players can’t sign deals NHL teams until May 1st. I know Zaitsev signed at the beginning of May when he first came over

As I mentioned in my other post, the Leafs are in good shape regarding contract numbers. They could afford to take a flyer on the player. Also with him being 25, his ELC will only be for 1 year. So if doesn't work out, there is little harm for either side.

 

[saltming]

Yeah well I think we’d all be down for that. Let’s hope Bracco achieves this, I’m not attached to brown in any way at all, but Bracco will need to be able to pk and be trusted by babcock in all situations before he’d go with him. Or maybe babcock might change his philosophy that would be good too. I don’t have a problem with Bracco what so ever I just don’t see babcock going for 3 offensive rw’s as good as Bracco has become defensively it’s still not much better than nylander or marner who babcock still don’t trust Late in games

That's fair.
I think it will come down to how Keefe affects him. Iirc AJ was not a pker with Frölunda but some Marlies time did him wonders.
Also if it takes 2 more years before Bracco is ready I'm fine waiting.

 

[nobody]

That's fair.
I think it will come down to how Keefe affects him. Iirc AJ was not a pker with Frölunda but some Marlies time did him wonders.
Also if it takes 2 more years before Bracco is ready I'm fine waiting.

I think AJ is probably Keefes biggest accomplishment when it comes to player development. When he was with Frolunda AJ was primarily a PP guy and I don't think he got any significant PK time even though they did rely on him a ton late in games. When he came to the AHL though, I don't think a single person would've confidently claimed he could become an all around two way stud. I thought his only way to the NHL was him putting up rediculous numbers and the Leafs giving him a shot. Instead he and Keefe and the rest of the coaching / training staff have helped Andreas become arguably the best two way prospect to come out of the Marlies since they've moved to TO.

Another guy who might go down the same development path IMO is Grundstrom. If he doesn't crack the big club next year, he can become an all around stud for the Marlies. Grundy is a huge glue guy and was basically a jack of all trades and one of the most trusted forwards on Frolunda. Babs is going to love him. His playing style mostly consists of banging the body, high intensity for checking and all effort plays similar to hyman. His biggest differentiating quality however is that this guy can be our Holmstrom on a PP. You can stick him in front of the net and watch the other team hack away at him without him giving them an inch. I really look forward to him playing this Calder playoffs!

 

[saltming]

I think AJ is probably Keefes biggest accomplishment when it comes to player development. When he was with Frolunda AJ was primarily a PP guy and I don't think he got any significant PK time even though they did rely on him a ton late in games. When he came to the AHL though, I don't think a single person would've confidently claimed he could become an all around two way stud. I thought his only way to the NHL was him putting up rediculous numbers and the Leafs giving him a shot. Instead he and Keefe and the rest of the coaching / training staff have helped Andreas become arguably the best two way prospect to come out of the Marlies since they've moved to TO.

Another guy who might go down the same development path IMO is Grundstrom. If he doesn't crack the big club next year, he can become an all around stud for the Marlies. Grundy is a huge glue guy and was basically a jack of all trades and one of the most trusted forwards on Frolunda. Babs is going to love him. His playing style mostly consists of banging the body, high intensity for checking and all effort plays similar to hyman. His biggest differentiating quality however is that this guy can be our Holmstrom on a PP. You can stick him in front of the net and watch the other team hack away at him without him giving them an inch. I really look forward to him playing this Calder playoffs!

I have to agree with everything you've said. I was sold on grundstrom when I read his coaches quote saying he play more Canadian style hockey than most Canadian haha

Bracco has all the tools and smarts to become a good 2 way forward and Keefe has shown he can mould young talent, a match made in heaven (if you're a leafs fan)

 

[Smif]

Pretty hard to compare, because it's WHL vs AHL, with Rielly on a terrible team and Liljegren on a really good one. Probably fairly comparable though - both had really solid draft years +1, but not absolutely spectacular. Rielly played a dozen or so AHL games at the end of that season as well, and was generally pretty decent but didn't dominate by any stretch.

Rielly we brought up to the NHL in his draft year +2 because he wasn't AHL eligible. It was WHL or NHL for him. Liljegren I think we should take more time with, unless he really dominates next September. I think we want to see him play at an AHL all-star level before bringing him up, rather than just a pretty solid top 4 AHL defenceman - at least if we're trying to justify bringing him up as a teenager.

Plus we sucked when Rielly was a rookie, our d-corps is still pretty crappy but our team expectations are much different.

 

[Boutette]

Pospisil gets a goal, Ferguson an assist. Potentially 2 players that could get ELCs this summer with forwards being promoted and Toronto's org short of center prospects.

 

[Knies iT]

Grundstrom with the primary assist on the Aaltonen goal. Nice power move to the outside to feed Aaltonen in the slot for the finish.

Missed an assignment in the D-zone for Laval's 2nd goal but redeemed himself on that play.

 

[stickty111]

I suppose it is inevitable that fans on a site called Hockey’s Future will tend to overvalue prospects in the minors compared to players who have already made the NHL. A couple of Bracco fans have a particularly notable case of the syndrome, however.

Bracco is making good progress, especially in the last quarter of the season. I’m happy to see that. But let’s see him score at that rate for a lengthy part of next season before we pencil him in over young but established NHL ers with a 200 foot game.

I suppose it is inevitable that fans on a site called Hockey’s Future will tend to undervalue prospects in the minors compared to players who have already made the NHL. A couple of non Bracco fans have a particularly notable case of the syndrome, however.

 

[biotk]

I haven't had the chance to watch Lindgren play yet, but in 2.67 GP for the Marlies so far it seems he has been on the ice for 7 of 9 ES goals against. Seems to need to do some real work in that department.

By comparison Liljegren has been on the ice for 7 ES against in his last 20 games (out of 35 ES GA).
​