Pro-Benning Crowd: What Counts As Failure Next Year

[passive voice]

With the trade deadline behind us and the screaming having died down some, I'm curious what people think next year looks like. Specifically, I want to know what would cause those of you who don't consider themselves anti-Benning to lose faith in 2018-2019. Another playoff miss? Another bottom-five-ish finish? AHL problems?

Full disclosure: I am very anti-Benning.

Click to read more...

 

[Archangel]

We are rebuilding. We need to embrace it. Here is what I see want to happen
1) Nice farewell dinner for the Sedins in May--We all love the twins--but they are not worth 7 mill a year each anymore. Time for the kids to step up. I would give them 2 years years at 3.5 each year.
2) See what Arizona wants to take the Erickson contract off our hands
3) Let the kids develop either on the farm or in Europe
4) See what we can get for Sutter, Edler and Jake V

For me we are rebuilding and we collectively need to embrace that and make all moves about that. It is the 19/20 season I am looking for us to make the playoffs

 

[Nomobo]

This could be interesting since there are only six of us this could end up being a tie.

 

[Numba9]

IMO at this point all I care about is obtaining elite talent. This can only be done through the draft and Benning's picks are tracking extremely well. That's the only thing I care about because that's the only thing that matters at this point. The draft lottery is going to destroy a team or two before the rules change and I don't want one of the 'example' teams to be the Canucks. Imagine firing Benning for someone who sucked at drafting but was OK at pro scouting, then we would be in real trouble. If his picks don't track well in the NHL in the next two years then he and Linden can be sacked and I'd have no problem with that.

 

[racerjoe]

As someone who is anti-benning, how can I see the results without voting? I don't want to spoil the actual vote.

 

[y2kcanucks]

We are rebuilding. We need to embrace it. Here is what I see want to happen
1) Nice farewell dinner for the Sedins in May--We all love the twins--but they are not worth 7 mill a year each anymore. Time for the kids to step up. I would give them 2 years years at 3.5 each year.
2) See what Arizona wants to take the Erickson contract off our hands
3) Let the kids develop either on the farm or in Europe
4) See what we can get for Sutter, Edler and Jake V

For me we are rebuilding and we collectively need to embrace that and make all moves about that. It is the 19/20 season I am looking for us to make the playoffs

Except this team isn't rebuilding. You can say it's a rebuild all you want, but it's like pointing to a rock and calling it a duck. Just because you say something is something doesn't make it true.

 

[y2kcanucks]

As someone who is anti-benning, how can I see the results without voting? I don't want to spoil the actual vote.

There's a button that says "view results." At least on the non-mobile site.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

I never understood the crazy obsession of trying to convince the other side to joing your POV.

Its the same obsession w the term "rebuild" or "retool" for a mangemebt

Who really cares as long as they win the cup during their tenor.

Otherwise its a failure like all the GMs before.

 

[drax0s]

Well, I've been accused of being pro-Benning by some around here, so I guess I'll chime in.

Competitiveness as a benchmark misses the mark entirely, tbh (so none of the options really apply). I'd be 100% happy if they were the last place team next year if it seemed like we were actually rebuilding. For me, the benchmark for being content is less standings related and more seeing vets traded for picks, prospects doing well in their respective leagues and a legitimate "build through the draft" strategy actually happening. It *seemed* we were on the right track, trading Burrows/Hansen for youth and signing stopgap contracts to flip at the deadline. Then nothing related to that happened at the deadline and all we heard were more excuses.

I've been in the "could care less if Benning goes or stays" camp for a while now, but I'm ready for him and Linden to move on now.

 

[RobertKron]

Maybe they actually demonstrate a coherent plan, and show signs of following it for at least a few consecutive months.

 

[rune74]

I'm procanucks I don't care who is in the front office, I just want us to do better. I can't control who they put there so I can hope for things to get better, though I was not happy with the trade deadline.

I want to see progression. Draft picks doing well, moving away from some of the old that we still have. Smart free agent signings, no more multi year deals on fringe NHLers. I want anyone brought in to be complimentary to the youth we have and not have it the other way around.

 

[VanJack]

I see Harrison Mooney and Eliotte Friedman are beating the drum about the negativity of Canuck fans.....they're just too nasty to the current regime on Twitter and social media...why it's starting to take its toll on the Canuck braintrust.

But I suppose the alternative is what's happening with the Canuck expansion cousins in Buffalo....they're just as bad and were forced to trade Evander Kane at the deadline for a bag of pucks....the difference is, nobody cares any more. The rink is half empty and you can't give tickets away for most Sabre games. They're changing the name of the rink from the First Niagara Center to the Key Bank Centre in the hopes that fans might show up by accident.

I suppose when it reaches that stage in VanCity, then the current owners and managers will really have something to worry about. Maybe it needs to become like the late 80's when 8,000 people routinely showed up at the old Pacific Coliseum....I sometimes think that might be the only thing that finally gets the owner's attention.

 

[Melvin]

I see Harrison Mooney and Eliotte Friedman are beating the drum about the negativity of Canuck fans.....they're just too nasty to the current regime on Twitter and social media...why it's starting to take its toll on the Canuck braintrust.

But I suppose the alternative is what's happening with the Canuck expansion cousins in Buffalo....they're just as bad and were forced to trade Evander Kane at the deadline for a bag of pucks....the difference is, nobody cares any more. The rink is half empty and you can't give tickets away for most Sabre games. They're changing the name of the rink from the First Niagara Center to the Key Bank Centre in the hopes that fans might show up by accident.

I suppose when it reaches that stage in VanCity, then the current owners and managers will really have something to worry about. Maybe it needs to become like the late 80's when 8,000 people routinely showed up at the old Pacific Coliseum....I sometimes think that might be the only thing that finally gets the owner's attention.

Read the Harrison Mooney article. Don't just read the headline and jump to conclusions.

 

[Hit the post]

The rink is half empty and you can't give tickets away for most Sabre games.

on stubhub....six bucks for a Sabres game vs 15 bucks for a Canucks game. Not a huge difference.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

To me,a failure would be a regression in the young talent..Next year we have to start seeing tangible results from the new core of players..The team has to at least be in the hunt for a wildcard spot,to be out of it and irrelevant by Christmas would be an absolute disaster.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Every day the Canucks don't have a cup is a failure but there's nothing wrong with that earlier the road to success is paved with the failures. What we look for his are you failing better and better each time. Did you learn from failure? I think yes Benning and Linden have. If they draft a player who has no chance of being a good player for us in the future that is an unacceptable failure but if they continue to draft well and continue to create a winning culture of hard work ethics and positive thinking and focussing on the right things like getting faster and more skilled and younger with good character throughout the organization then that is an acceptable failure. Unacceptable failure is defined by slacking off not working hard thinking negative focussing on the wrong things like how to get an extra pick in the draft instead of how well you're young players and locker room developed based on The chemistry of personalities inside. Not paying attention to getting good high character guys in every part of the organization that's an unacceptable failure.

 

[alternate]

The way the poll is structured makes it a bit tough to answer, but I want to see progression in terms of performance and transitioning to the new core. If Bo, Boeser and Virtanen continue progressing, that is good. Also want to see the future blueline core start taking some shape...so Juolevi getting some looks, Stetcher solidifying himself as a top 6, preferably top 4, and some of the guys on the farm Brisbois, McEenemy, etc) taking a step and showing they deserve a look in the bigs.

Also want to see some of our new pro/new to NA forwards show some top 6 potential.

A successful season imo is playing some meaningful games in March after the play of our young pieces make some veterans expendable at the deadline. Whether thats mussing the playoffs by 5 points or ten points isn't overly important, as long as its youth leading the charge.

 

[Hit the post]

I expect prospects to hit some bumps on the road (ie., Boeser)....what I REALLY want to see is some vision for the blueline. It looks like a big pile of crap. If it's more of the "same old same old" with respect to the D, it'll be continued blech days ahead.

 

[Pip]

To me,a failure would be a regression in the young talent..Next year we have to start seeing tangible results from the new core of players..The team has to at least be in the hunt for a wildcard spot,to be out of it and irrelevant by Christmas would be an absolute disaster.

I would agree with this. I think people need to see Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Juolevi, Virtanen, Leipsic etc as the face of a team that is legitimately competing for the playoffs. I don’t mean competitive in stretches, because every team does that with the parity in the NHL, but a team with a legitimate shot at the playoffs. This will especially be the case if they go out and sign a big free agent (like Kane).

I think if the team is in the basement next year as well, you’ll see more fans turn on Benning and Linden.

Unfortunately for a guy like Elias, he’s going to have to be a point/game or better to meet the expectations in this market, especially considering what Brock has done this year, so I can already expect some negativity (although it’ll probably be unfair) around the young players next year.

 

[Verviticus]

Every day the Canucks don't have a cup is a failure but there's nothing wrong with that earlier the road to success is paved with the failures. What we look for his are you failing better and better each time. Did you learn from failure? I think yes Benning and Linden have. If they draft a player who has no chance of being a good player for us in the future that is an unacceptable failure but if they continue to draft well and continue to create a winning culture of hard work ethics and positive thinking and focussing on the right things like getting faster and more skilled and younger with good character throughout the organization then that is an acceptable failure. Unacceptable failure is defined by slacking off not working hard thinking negative focussing on the wrong things like how to get an extra pick in the draft instead of how well you're young players and locker room developed based on The chemistry of personalities inside. Not paying attention to getting good high character guys in every part of the organization that's an unacceptable failure.

what the f*** does this mean

 

[bossram]

There isn't really anything that would constitute a failure for True Believers. They'll just move the goalposts, make up some incoherent logic like our current brass, pivot to blame Gillis somewhow, and repeat.

 

[CanaFan]

Every day the Canucks don't have a cup is a failure but there's nothing wrong with that earlier the road to success is paved with the failures. What we look for his are you failing better and better each time. Did you learn from failure? I think yes Benning and Linden have. If they draft a player who has no chance of being a good player for us in the future that is an unacceptable failure but if they continue to draft well and continue to create a winning culture of hard work ethics and positive thinking and focussing on the right things like getting faster and more skilled and younger with good character throughout the organization then that is an acceptable failure. Unacceptable failure is defined by slacking off not working hard thinking negative focussing on the wrong things like how to get an extra pick in the draft instead of how well you're young players and locker room developed based on The chemistry of personalities inside. Not paying attention to getting good high character guys in every part of the organization that's an unacceptable failure.

Haha. This is gold.

 

[Icebreakers]

If the Canucks have not found a player with top pairing potential by the end of next year its a complete failure.

 

[Shareefruck]

I never understood the crazy obsession of trying to convince the other side to joing your POV.

Its the same obsession w the term "rebuild" or "retool" for a mangemebt

Who really cares as long as they win the cup during their tenor.

Otherwise its a failure like all the GMs before.

It's more of an obsession with wanting people to be rational and a frustration that comes when people defy reason. When it comes to something mostly subjective, like what movies people like, I agree that there's not as much of a point (although, even then you can make a similar argument, to a degree), but whether or not a GM is doing a good job isn't all that subjective, and when it seems clear that a GM is doing a terrible job, but people insist otherwise, there's an obsessive need to attempt to ask/show someone if that reasoning holds up against scrutiny. If the fans are not reasonable, then the GM doesn't have to be reasonable. It harms accountability, which harms a team's chance of success. Whether or not a GM wins a cup in their tenure isn't purely random, there's a rational process that improves those odds, so of course it matters whether or not fans are rational.

Personally, I think that we should all behave that way.

Similar ideas can be applied to the rebuild vs. retool argument as well. To the people who think that a rebuild is the most sensible course of action, being in denial of the need for a rebuild and insisting on a retool shows that a GM is failing to accurately assess the state of the team, and unwilling to do what is necessary to optimize success. So of course you would want to argue about that point.

We aren't all correct in our assessments, of course, but we should damn well argue about it with others to get as close as we can.

Everyone simply being blindly satisfied with their first impressions and "respecting each other's opinions" so much that we never stepping on each others toes would be a nightmare.

 

[Numba9]

It's more of an obsession with wanting people to be rational and a frustration that comes when people defy reason. When it comes to something mostly subjective, like what movies people like, I agree that there's not as much of a point (although, even then you can make a similar argument, to a degree), but whether or not a GM is doing a good job isn't all that subjective, and when it seems clear that a GM is doing a terrible job, but people insist otherwise, there's an obsessive need to attempt to ask/show someone if that reasoning holds up against scrutiny.

I think it comes down to this: You and a lot people in these forums think they have enough information/knowledge to judge what is "rational" but in reality you don't even come close. Jumping to conclusions and making assumptions on what happens behind closed doors is the thing that is not "rational" and you supposed rational thinkers do it all the time. These boards would be so much better if more people knew their place in all of this.