The city badly wants to build more attractions in the downtown area, which has suffered since development started moving towards the strip. I would imagine they'd very much want a new arena there. Plus, residents seem to frequent the downtown area and the strip is mainly tourists, though there are other things downtown that draw tourists away from the strip.
Potential Las Vegas Franchise
- Thread starter LeafsYotesBlues
- Start date
Actually to be in keeping with hockey history a better moniker would be the "Las Vegas Black Aces".
From "Grapes: A Vintage View of Hockey" by Don Cherry with Stan Fischler:
There is even a hockey site dedicated to today's "Black Aces":
http://blackaceshockey.com/main.htm
Seattle and Portland both have great minor pro hockey pedigrees. I used to watch the Portland Buckaroos and Seattle Totems of the old WHL as a kid.
Portland has always been rumoured as destination but Paul Allen apparently has shown little interest in the NHL.
Seattle suffers from the lack of an NHL quality building and the Seattle taxpayer is about tapped out after new stadiums for the Mariners and Seahawks. The NBA Supersonics could be relocated to Oklahoma City, KC or even Las Vegas as the city is not prepared to buck up for a new arena.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/sonics/2007-05-30-future_N.htm
Without the NBA team as a co-tenant an arena for just an NHL does not make a lot of sense.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
It's Vegas. The venue could easily be filled with concerts, figure skating competititions or shows, conventions, a ton of special event bookings.
Other than the fact I was talking about Seattle....... you are right on point.
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet/Moose Fan
- May 12, 2007
- 6,452
- 955
And what is Winnipeg's ranking?
Actually the latest ratings I have seen has las vegas moving up to #43 media market in the US:
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.55dc65b4a7d5adff3f65936147a062a0/?
Winnipeg is not in the United States!
It's ranking would be roughly #7 or #8 in Canada. Therefore, in hockey terms, it would easily fall within the American top 10.
Stop the presses....Winnipeg is NOT in the United States. Are you absolutely certain????? Wow I learn something new every day.
We were discussing media markets not hockey markets which is what the NHL focuses upon.
lvwranglersfan
Registered User
But we have plenty of places for those types of events. We have Thomas and Mack center, Mandalay Bay Events Center, MGM Grand Garden Arena, Orleans Arena, House of Blues, The Joint at the Hard Rock and many other smaller venues. We have ice skating every year at Mandalay Bay, concerts are all over town and other events spread all over as well. They are looking to replace Thomas and Mack which is on the UNLV campus.
I also wanted to make a couple points about previous posts. First, no hockey can be played at Thomas and Mack. After the Thunder left, they got rid of the ice making equipment as it was old then. The only places to play hockey are the Grand Garden Arena, and Orleans Arena. There is no way an NHL team plays at the Orleans as it does only hold 7,773 for hockey. And for the person who quoted the XM show, the average attendance last year for the ECHL team was 5,075 a game. I don't know where they came up with the 3500 number as we have almost that many season ticket holders. But most of the other points the XM show made were valid, and if you look back a few days, I made those same points. And for the record, the new arena they are looking to build will be located downtown as a previous poster noted.
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet/Moose Fan
- May 12, 2007
- 6,452
- 955
It is impossible to give a Canadian city a US media ranking.Stop the presses....Winnipeg is NOT in the United States. Are you absolutely certain????? Wow I learn something new every day.
We were discussing media markets not hockey markets which is what the NHL focuses upon.
And Mark Cuban had a spin on NHL TV ratings which I heard on XM. He said they should combine Canadian and US ratings for one number and compare the combined number with the NBA etc., in which case the comparison would be favourable. He notes debut movies count total box office and not just American.
I think the days of NHL focus on media market size (if they ever existed) are numbered. I believe they will look at the media market size converted to dollars, which means Canadian cities are subject to a multiplier in order to compare them to a US city, i.e. Canadian city of 1 million is the same media size as a US city of maybe 5 million.
My understanding was that a refrigeration plant could be re-installed to allow for hockey to be played on a temporary basis while the new arena is being built.
lvwranglersfan
Registered User
In our paper, they basically said that Thomas and Mack was out of the question, which knowing our paper probably means they have already installed a new machine. However, based on the reviews from the NBA All Star game, I don't know if anyone wants to use the T & M for anything anymore. I must admit, having gone to the Orleans for 4 seasons now, I don't think anything in our city can even compare to that.
This is Jerry Bruckheimer after all - surely all that tech savvy from the TV and film industry can figure out a stop gap solution while a new arena is constructed.
If the Tampa Bay Lightning could play for three seasons in a stadium designed for baseball.....
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Disney made some hockey movies because they owned the Might Ducks.
Jerry Bruckheimer would likely make kick-ass hockey movies (about time for a good one) if he owns an NHL franchise. He already has Tom Cruise and Cuba Gooding Jr joining him for his midweek hockey games in his own rink. One great exciting film could do more to market the game to youth than a thousand commercials and special promotions.
Bruckheimer already is personally responsible for putting a hockey stick in Mickey Mouse's hand. He will make hockey American! ESPN will beg to show games, you wait and see.
Jerry Bruckheimer would likely make kick-ass hockey movies (about time for a good one) if he owns an NHL franchise. He already has Tom Cruise and Cuba Gooding Jr joining him for his midweek hockey games in his own rink. One great exciting film could do more to market the game to youth than a thousand commercials and special promotions.
Bruckheimer already is personally responsible for putting a hockey stick in Mickey Mouse's hand. He will make hockey American! ESPN will beg to show games, you wait and see.
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I believe that Disney made the Mighty Ducks (original movie) and then bought the expansion franchise.Disney made some hockey movies because they owned the Might Ducks.
Jerry Bruckheimer would likely make kick-ass hockey movies (about time for a good one) if he owns an NHL franchise. He already has Tom Cruise and Cuba Gooding Jr joining him for his midweek hockey games in his own rink. One great exciting film could do more to market the game to youth than a thousand commercials and special promotions.
Bruckheimer already is personally responsible for putting a hockey stick in Mickey Mouse's hand. He will make hockey American! ESPN will beg to show games, you wait and see.
Golden Foppa
Registered User
I am all for a Las Vegas franchise. Just another excuse to go to Vegas everytime the Avs have a road game there!
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Yes, then afterwards they made D2 and D3... admittedly not quality stuff.
Bruckheimer could make one kickin' hockey movie, you can bet on that!
Unfortunately there are two problems with that. One is that different games are shown in different countries (except for the last 2 rounds of the playoffs). Another problem is the two countries use a different ratings system. Canadian TV ratings are measured by viewers where US ratings are measured by household.
There is an article in this weeks hockey news on this, saying Bruckheimer is a potential owner, but that he wants an expansion franchise
I think a team in Vegas could work, but it has a huge risk/reward factor. The fact that Vegas is a growing market makes it a place where the NHL could have success, much like Raleigh/Durham and the fact that they have an ECHL team which has been able to survive despite others folding(Atlantic City,Long Beach) shows the potential to support an NHL team. Vegas offers an incredible advertising oppurtunity for the NHL, every inch of the boards in the rink they play in will have casino advertising bringing in money and the team could use the casinos to advertise the NHL.
However, for this to work the NHL needs to make sure a few things happen:
1. Bruckheimer is owner - he has had great success in the entertainment business and would be able to afford to endure some loses to create success. I feel he will be a Mark Cuban type owner and want to do anything he can to produce wins for his team. Also, with Bruckheimer in the enterainment industry he has the power to create a television station much like Ted Turner's TBS, which would televise the teams games nationally as TBS does the Braves (not sure how versus would feel about this)
2. Beat the NBA to Vegas - If the Portland Trailblazers relocate and bring Greg Oden with them then the NHL will not be able to compete for ticket sales, tourism or advertising with a team wit such a budding superstar. However, getting there first the NHL team could own the arena and charge the NBA team rent(as discussed in point 3)
3. NHL team owns arena - for an NHL team to make money they must own the arena and auction off the rights for concessions and recieve money for other teams using the building (possibly NBA, Arena Football, wrestling) and concerts etc.
I think this is a risk worth taking if the team fails then the owner can always move it, just like what is happening in Nashville. 31 teams would not work and would open up potential expansion to Quebec or Winnipeg. The expansion fee paid by the teams will help the NHL owners. NHL fans would go to see their team on the road in Vegas for an excuse to spend the weekend there and the NHL should change the schedule to get Crosby and Ovechkin there at least every other year. I also don't think two additional teams will water down the talent too much. If the NHL wants to make the game relevant in the United States Vegas will open it up to a national audience as well as a growing local audience, and can also provide another Canadian team who will have an automatic fan base.
I think a team in Vegas could work, but it has a huge risk/reward factor. The fact that Vegas is a growing market makes it a place where the NHL could have success, much like Raleigh/Durham and the fact that they have an ECHL team which has been able to survive despite others folding(Atlantic City,Long Beach) shows the potential to support an NHL team. Vegas offers an incredible advertising oppurtunity for the NHL, every inch of the boards in the rink they play in will have casino advertising bringing in money and the team could use the casinos to advertise the NHL.
However, for this to work the NHL needs to make sure a few things happen:
1. Bruckheimer is owner - he has had great success in the entertainment business and would be able to afford to endure some loses to create success. I feel he will be a Mark Cuban type owner and want to do anything he can to produce wins for his team. Also, with Bruckheimer in the enterainment industry he has the power to create a television station much like Ted Turner's TBS, which would televise the teams games nationally as TBS does the Braves (not sure how versus would feel about this)
2. Beat the NBA to Vegas - If the Portland Trailblazers relocate and bring Greg Oden with them then the NHL will not be able to compete for ticket sales, tourism or advertising with a team wit such a budding superstar. However, getting there first the NHL team could own the arena and charge the NBA team rent(as discussed in point 3)
3. NHL team owns arena - for an NHL team to make money they must own the arena and auction off the rights for concessions and recieve money for other teams using the building (possibly NBA, Arena Football, wrestling) and concerts etc.
I think this is a risk worth taking if the team fails then the owner can always move it, just like what is happening in Nashville. 31 teams would not work and would open up potential expansion to Quebec or Winnipeg. The expansion fee paid by the teams will help the NHL owners. NHL fans would go to see their team on the road in Vegas for an excuse to spend the weekend there and the NHL should change the schedule to get Crosby and Ovechkin there at least every other year. I also don't think two additional teams will water down the talent too much. If the NHL wants to make the game relevant in the United States Vegas will open it up to a national audience as well as a growing local audience, and can also provide another Canadian team who will have an automatic fan base.
Disney made some hockey movies because they owned the Might Ducks.
Jerry Bruckheimer would likely make kick-ass hockey movies (about time for a good one) if he owns an NHL franchise. He already has Tom Cruise and Cuba Gooding Jr joining him for his midweek hockey games in his own rink. One great exciting film could do more to market the game to youth than a thousand commercials and special promotions.
Bruckheimer already is personally responsible for putting a hockey stick in Mickey Mouse's hand. He will make hockey American! ESPN will beg to show games, you wait and see.
where do they play i'd LOVE to run tom cruise. i cant stand him.
Okay, I've lived in Las Vegas my entire life. Putting a team here would be a brilliant move for the NHL. I'm sorry, but if you don't see this, you're seriously ignorant of the sports market here.
Firstly, there is a much larger hockey following here than people would think. There's a huge LA Kings fanbase (Frozen Fury, a preseason game between the Kings and Avalanche has been held in Vegas for like ten years straight). There's quite a large NARCH inline hockey community in Vegas (I've played since I was seven). The Las Vegas Thunder enjoyed a rabidly loyal following for the years leading up to the IHL's collapse. The Wranglers, a Calgary farm team, sells tickets. There's definitely a hockey-aware fanbase that already exists in Las Vegas which can easily be built upon.
Secondly, the game of hockey would flourish by moving a franchise to Vegas. I've talked to hundreds of people at UNLV (local college) and around town in general about moving a hockey franchise here. People I would never have thought in a thousand years would like hockey said they would go, simply for the fact that it's a pro sports team finally in Vegas. I believe that portion of the potential fanbase is larger than everyone thinks. Vegas is the fastest growing part of the country, and people have been starving for a professional sports franchise for years.
Thirdly, hockey DOES fit the "tourist attraction" side of Vegas. Hockey is different, alien still, to a lot of the west coast. I can definitely see tourists coming here and buying tickets to a hockey game, just because it's so different and new. Regardless, even if that number is small, so many people come through this city a year I really doubt a franchise would have trouble selling tickets, especially when coupled with the potentially strong season ticket holding population.
Fourthly, as far as an arena goes, I've read a lot about AEG (owners of the LA Kings) already propositioning to build and partially own a brand new hockey arena in Vegas. Imagine something like the Staples Center but on the Strip.
Anyone who doesn't see that a franchise in Las Vegas would be monumental for the National Hockey League is blind.
Firstly, there is a much larger hockey following here than people would think. There's a huge LA Kings fanbase (Frozen Fury, a preseason game between the Kings and Avalanche has been held in Vegas for like ten years straight). There's quite a large NARCH inline hockey community in Vegas (I've played since I was seven). The Las Vegas Thunder enjoyed a rabidly loyal following for the years leading up to the IHL's collapse. The Wranglers, a Calgary farm team, sells tickets. There's definitely a hockey-aware fanbase that already exists in Las Vegas which can easily be built upon.
Secondly, the game of hockey would flourish by moving a franchise to Vegas. I've talked to hundreds of people at UNLV (local college) and around town in general about moving a hockey franchise here. People I would never have thought in a thousand years would like hockey said they would go, simply for the fact that it's a pro sports team finally in Vegas. I believe that portion of the potential fanbase is larger than everyone thinks. Vegas is the fastest growing part of the country, and people have been starving for a professional sports franchise for years.
Thirdly, hockey DOES fit the "tourist attraction" side of Vegas. Hockey is different, alien still, to a lot of the west coast. I can definitely see tourists coming here and buying tickets to a hockey game, just because it's so different and new. Regardless, even if that number is small, so many people come through this city a year I really doubt a franchise would have trouble selling tickets, especially when coupled with the potentially strong season ticket holding population.
Fourthly, as far as an arena goes, I've read a lot about AEG (owners of the LA Kings) already propositioning to build and partially own a brand new hockey arena in Vegas. Imagine something like the Staples Center but on the Strip.
Anyone who doesn't see that a franchise in Las Vegas would be monumental for the National Hockey League is blind.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
hockey is also cool
in a hot desert climate there's plenty of opportunity for walk-up sales on game day
cold beer and cool air.... ah
in a hot desert climate there's plenty of opportunity for walk-up sales on game day
cold beer and cool air.... ah
Very good point. I didn't even think of that.
Anyone will want to get off the 100+ degree Strip to cool off and drink/watch sports.
ya, but that's the problem, Kings, once the novelty of LV wears off, THEN WHAT, unless AEG Builds another arena wouldn't the LV Wranglers have first refusal since they are the active franchise there as Hamilton is now in regards to the Bulldogs.
I mean the AHL tried in Utah for 5 years then essentially ceded the franchise to Cleveland while reestablishing a presence in the Wranglers' current league.
I just don't want to keep reading about franchise relocation proposals every 3 months to a year if it doesn't work for whatever reason.
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