Post Your "All Rookie Teams"

Status
Not open for further replies.

The Tang

I like gooooollllddd
Sep 19, 2002
7,394
1
Pittsburgh. PA
Visit site
JasonMacIsaac said:
So you are saying his +- is average among a team of rookies......you are killing what argument he once had.
you do understand the concept of "team" right? if the whole team does bad. one guy isnt going to have a +/- far greater than the other. you completely flipped the argument. he's a rookie, not an all star, so dont view him as such.
 

The Tang

I like gooooollllddd
Sep 19, 2002
7,394
1
Pittsburgh. PA
Visit site
Z-Diddy said:
They need to get rid of the days in which the 24 year old rookie flurrishes. With an exception to back stoppers the age limit needs to be brought down to 21-22 at the latest. I would be choked if my young prospect wasnt producing numbers like ryder totals at 24.
in defense of Malone, he only played 3 AHL games, and made the nhl team out of camp. so he had 3 games of pro experience, which doesnt really count as anything. otherwie i may be inclined to agree to a certain extent.
 

codswallop

yes, i am an alcoholic
Aug 20, 2002
1,768
100
GA
Been reading the last couple weeks about rookie Dmen here. Orpik's name seems to be a big topic of discussion. With rookies, it's not fair to any of them to look at the numbers for valuation purposes (the bad numbers AND the good numbers). It's more about how they handle themselves at this level, and how they have improved over the course of the year. So I would say that Orpik has done well in his rookie season, given the type of defenseman that he is. Made rookie mistakes and still has a lot to learn, but he did a good job according to his role.

However, I still don't think that he was the best defensive defensemen amongst the rookies. I still have to say that Exelby did a better job. Remember, both played on bad defensive teams, though Pittburgh was a bit worse. Exelby is just as frightening in the open ice as Orpik. Not the most important aspect for a Dman, but it does make the other players a bit wary after a while. Exelby is better at reading and reacting right now, making the smart play. Orpik has had more problems with that this year, of course that could and probably will change in the next year or two. But simply in terms of this season, Exelby has been the more reliable of the two while the physicallity has been pretty much the same.

I don't have the first clue if one will outshine the other in the coming years. That won't matter too much to Pittsburgh and Atlanta, respectively. They are both very happy to have these two young talents.
 

Luigi Lemieux

Registered User
Sep 26, 2003
21,439
9,061
George Harrison said:
I think Caron is not a rookie. I could be wrong but I'm almost sure he isn't.
He's a rookie. Once you play 25 games in a season you're no longer a rookie. Caron played in 24 last season.
 

Kritty

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,921
3
Visit site
John Flyers Fan said:
1st Team

Hunter - Ruutu - Ryder
Liles - Pitkanen
Raycroft

2nd Team

Malone - Bergeron - Zherdev
Bergeron - Martin
Toskala

I hate to burst your bubble but Toskala is not a rookie. He's 26, too old to be classified as a rookie. Unless I'm missing something here.
 

Kritty

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,921
3
Visit site
Z-Diddy said:
They need to get rid of the days in which the 24 year old rookie flurrishes. With an exception to back stoppers the age limit needs to be brought down to 21-22 at the latest. I would be choked if my young prospect wasnt producing numbers like ryder totals at 24.

I don't buy into this argument for a second. Why can't a 24 year old win the Calder? So long as we aren't seeing the Makarov days where a pro from Europe comes over at 27-28 years of age and wins it then I have no problem. Guys like Ryder have toiled in the minors for a few seasons finding their games, why shouldn't they be rewarded with the Calder if they have a good season? If you lower the age down to 21-22 you're going to have rookies winning the award that haven't done a whole lot during the season. Sure you have guys that will have good seasons but for the most part, 21-22 year olds won't have a real big impact. That seems kinda stupid to me to be awarding the Calder based solely on age and discriminating against another guy because he's a few years older. This year, especially, is a good backup of that. Both Ryder and Malone pretty much came from nowhere to be top rookies at 23-24, why should they be punished for that? I really don't see how this argument of yours can carry any weight, especially when you say goalies should be exempt from the age rule. If a player is subject to it, so should a goalie.
 

kasper11

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
7,674
13
New York
Visit site
1st Team:
Hunter - Ruutu - Ryder
Liles - Bergeron
Raycroft

2nd Team:
Malone - Bergeron - Lupul
Bergeon - Martin
Leighton


Honorable Mention:
Backman, Preissing, Stajan, Lombardi, Zherdev
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
7,741
S. Pasadena, CA
1st Team
LW Ryan Malone, Pitt
C Patrice Bergeron, Bos
RW Michael Ryder, Mtl
D John-Michael Liles, Col
D Joni Pitkanen, Phi
G Andrew Raycroft, Bos

2nd Team
LW Nikolai Zherdev, Clb
C Tuomo Ruutu, Chi
RW Trent Hunter, NYI
D Brooks Orpik, Pit
D Dan Hamhuis, Nas
G Marc-Andre Fleury, Pit

Orpik's play rises above the numbers as do Fleury and Caron's...but Fleury deserves it more. If Caron makes the All-Rookie team it's the second year in a row he'd do so.
 

ES

Registered User
Feb 14, 2004
4,151
821
Finland
I don't know actual positions of forwards, I have 3 of them.

Ryder-Ruutu-Hunter
Pitkänen-Hamhuis
Raycroft
 

Teemu

Caffeine Free Since 1919
Dec 3, 2002
28,756
5,228
First

Hunter-Ruutu-Ryder
Liles-Hamhuis
Raycroft

Second

Malone-Bergeron-Zherdev
Pitkanen-Bergeron
Leighton/Caron (toss up)
 

killer9318

Registered User
Mar 3, 2004
107
0
FIRST TEAM
ryder(mtl) ruttu(chi) hunter(nyi)
pitkanen(phi) hamhuis(nas)
raycroft(bos)
SECOND TEAM
zherdev(cbj) stoll(edm) bergeron(bos)
martin(nj) lyles(col)
tellqvist(tor)

honorable mention:
dmitrakos(sj), roy(buf), malone(pit),horton(flr), stall(car), lupol(ana), lombardi(cal)stajan(tor), koltsov(pit), orpik(pit), backman(stl), allen(van),caron(pit),daley(dal)
 

Asiaoil

Vperod Bizona!
May 3, 2002
6,811
414
Visit site
For the dmen - MA Bergeron has been the best of the bunch for the last quarter of the season. He's 9-17-26 +13 in only 53 games.

Liles, Pitkanen and Martin have also been solid at both ends of the rink - but Hamhuis and his -13 on a pretty good Nashville squad means he's not top 4 IMO.
 

triggrman

Where is Hipcheck85
Sponsor
May 8, 2002
31,627
7,348
Murfreesboro, TN
hfboards.com
Asiaoil said:
For the dmen - MA Bergeron has been the best of the bunch for the last quarter of the season. He's 9-17-26 +13 in only 53 games.

Liles, Pitkanen and Martin have also been solid at both ends of the rink - but Hamhuis and his -13 on a pretty good Nashville squad means he's not top 4 IMO.

Hamhuis has played some of the toughest minutes of all the Nashville defensemen and leads Nashville defensemen in even strength minutes, so I'm guessing his is top 4. Using +/- is a joke to judge a defenseman.
 

jacketracket*

Guest
Jonathan Cheechoo is still considered a rookie, isn't he? And, if so, shouldn't he be in the mix somewhere?
 

Jason MacIsaac

Registered User
Jan 13, 2004
22,221
5,936
Halifax, NS
Handsome B. Wonderful said:
Find me one way, any way, that Brooks Orpik is deserving of that -30whatever he has right now and then I may agree.

Even in comparison it's BS
Its BS because you want it to be BS. Judging by your list you fit in perfect with Leafaholix and KomisarekX8.
 

Asiaoil

Vperod Bizona!
May 3, 2002
6,811
414
Visit site
Handsome B. Wonderful said:
+/- is the worst stat ever.

just thought I'd peep in and say that.

The stat (like any stat) is useful if it is used correctly. This is especially the case for defensemen who have more of a focus on keeping the puck out of their own net. Fact is Hamhuis is a fine young dman – but he is one of the worst +/- dmen on his team. That means the puck is going in the net a lot more while he is on the ice than most other Pred dmen. Nashville is also a pretty good team so he’s playing with relatively good players.

Will Hamhuis be a superior player to Liles, Martin and Bergeron in a few years? – almost certainly yes. But 4 other guys (Pitkanen, Liles, Martin and Bergeron) probably had slightly better seasons in terms of combining both offense and defense. The award is about how good you WERE this past year – not how good you WILL BE.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->