Possible return of the Quebec Nordiques?

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QcS

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snorkyller said:
When I went in Florida in 2001, I asked informations to go at a Panthers game and I was not able to find anyone who know what is the "Florida Panthers". :amazed:

a friend of mine went to 2 Panthers games this past week and he said they didn't even bother getting tickets in advance, and managed to get tickets for 8$ a pop. He said there no problems with the parking because there was not much of a crowd at the game.

:shakehead Sad, when you think about all the cities that would do ANYTHING to get a team.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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AdmiralPred said:
I don't know the Moose situation, you tell me. All I know is The Wild came into the league and the Moose moved to Manitoba.

And what does the Coyotes and Glendale have to do with anything? They're still the Phoenix Coyotes are they not? Still in the same market?

Glendale is not Phoenix Admiral and new arena see Houston/proposed Sprint Center in KC/MTS Center in Winnipeg replacing the Jets' home

Glendale Arena was scheduled to open last year until the prime tenants(the Coyotes) were locked out; America West was among the worst/if not the worst arena to watch hockey in.
 

rwilson99

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jamiebez said:
I understand that southern-US based fans are a little ticked off by all the relocation threads, but I think this anti-Canadianism is a little bit uncalled for. I'm all for a good jingoistic pi$$ing contest, but claiming that the NHL isn't making money in Canada is just nonsense.

For instance, you may be surprised to know:
- the Canadian national TV contracts are worth more in guaranteed money ($65M Canadian between CBC and TSN) than the US ones
- the Canadian teams are all in the top half of the league in attendance. Also, ticket prices were not cut substantially (if at all) in any Canadian market
- at last check, the Canadian teams were all turning a profit
- Many major sponsors (Labatt, McDonalds and Home Depot) ONLY sponsor the NHL in Canada, despite having major brand presense in the US.?

Teams in QC, Hamilton and Winnepeg will not grow the TV contract (all Leafs/Habs all the time anyway), wont change the taxation issues of Canadian franchises and wont change the exchange rate. The existing arena in Winnepeg will not place that team anywhere near top 10 in attendence and wont substantially increase the national sponsorships of Labatt, McDs and HD.

BTW.... McDonalds is a major sponsor of the Lightning in Tampa and Hartford shouldn't get another team either.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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rwilson99 said:
Teams in QC, Hamilton and Winnepeg will not grow the TV contract (all Leafs/Habs all the time anyway), wont change the taxation issues of Canadian franchises and wont change the exchange rate. The existing arena in Winnepeg will not place that team anywhere near top 10 in attendence and wont substantially increase the national sponsorships of Labatt, McDs and HD.

BTW.... McDonalds is a major sponsor of the Lightning in Tampa and Hartford shouldn't get another team either.

rwilson99,

The Rangers have the Hartford market and have since 1997, FYI
 

AdmiralPred

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Glendale is not Phoenix Admiral and new arena see Houston/proposed Sprint Center in KC/MTS Center in Winnipeg replacing the Jets' home .

No, but Glendale is still the Phoenix market and the location of the new arena.


CHRDANHUTCH said:
Glendale Arena was scheduled to open last year until the prime tenants(the Coyotes) were locked out; America West was among the worst/if not the worst arena to watch hockey in.
What do the Phoenix arenas have to do with this?

Way back when I responded to your first post in this thread, all I said was that if an NHL team would come to either Winnipeg or Quebec City that the minor/junior teams that exist there would probably not have a problem relocating if they choose.
 

futurcorerock

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jester099 said:
I never compared AHL and NHL, I'm not stupid.

I compared, Junior and AHL. It's not the best comparison, but I would tend to think AHL (a professinal league) has more attendance than Junior in the first place... This was only meant to proove that people in Quebec are crazy about hockey while people in Houston are more indiferent.
Actually, by choice of words you didnt, but you're using junior and AHL attendance rankings to make a statement about NHL attendance.

So yes, you were
 

snorkyller

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Right now, if a city has to be choosen for a hockey team, between Winnipeg and Quebec, it would be clearly Winnipeg, because they have actually a decent arena.

Maybe Marcel Aubut is trying to make people from Quebec realize that if they want a NHL team again, they may have one chance but only one. So they have to react quickly with the arena issue.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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snorkyller said:
Right now, if a city has to be choosen for a hockey team, between Winnipeg and Quebec, it would be clearly Winnipeg, because they have actually a decent arena.

Maybe Marcel Aubut is trying to make people from Quebec realize that if they want a NHL team again, they may have one chance but only one. So they have to react quickly with the arena issue.

HUH, snork

HOW come Manitoba OWNERSHIP has clearly stated NO desire to have the Moose depart and Winnipeg Arena is no more.

Aubut ALONG WITH THE demise of Labatt's DOOMED the Nordiques why was the Montreal arena since the closure of the legendary Forum on Rue St. Catherines named Molson Centre until Bell Express Vue ASSUMED NAMING rights hence Bell Centre
 

jester099

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futurcorerock said:
Actually, by choice of words you didnt, but you're using junior and AHL attendance rankings to make a statement about NHL attendance.

So yes, you were

That there is more attendance in lower leagues doesn't proove there will be more attendance in the NHL, but that wasn't the point.

It does proove however that people care more about hockey.

My point is that there should be more than just total population when you consider the market for the product.

You have to consider how much the population is interested in the product in question.

People in Quebec are far more interested in hockey than people in Houston. I think that's a given, and I don't know why I'm arguing this... It seams so evident...
 

Jordoe28

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If you're going to move a team to Quebec, why not move New Jersey. How many years have they now had a top team in the league yet they still can barely manage to fill 12000 seats. There obviously isn't a fan base there.
 

jester099

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Jordoe28 said:
If you're going to move a team to Quebec, why not move New Jersey. How many years have they now had a top team in the league yet they still can barely manage to fill 12000 seats. There obviously isn't a fan base there.

Even if the NY and suroundings market is very big, 3 teams that close sure is a lot...

Don't really know if it's too much...
 

snorkyller

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I would be happy if somebody should tell me why and how teams as New-Jersey, Washigton and Florida manages to survive with so much weak attendances.
It is simply illogical.

There must be people to buy tickets, to see advertising on the ice or on the boards, to eat hot-dogs and buy things at the arena store. There must be people to watch the game on tv because of the publicity. There must be people in the city who love their team because they'll buy hockey merchandise. You know what I mean... It's a simple economic mechanism. It's like that in every economic domain... But not in hockey...???

Hockey is the only sport to have many teams in cities where people don't give a damn about the sport and the team. Just try to give me an example in other sports. You'll not find a professional rugby team in America. You'll not find pro baseball team in China. But you'll find some in Japan. Why? Because they love baseball! They love the sport!!

If there's a hockey team in Florida and Texas, then why not trying in Mexico. When you're there, then why not trying in Brazil ??? :shakehead

I can't believe that all the US nhl teams will survive forever. And I wonder how many of them are still alive. I suspect that these teams are getting some kind of help... from nhl for example. You know that it's hard for the nhl to admit that the expansion in the US didn't work, especially for Bettman !!
 
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snorkyller

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jester099 said:
Even if the NY and suroundings market is very big, 3 teams that close sure is a lot...

Don't really know if it's too much...


I think Quebec Nordiques could get as much fans in all the province than NYR, NYI and NJ are getting together.
 

Habsaku

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rwilson99 said:
Teams in QC, Hamilton and Winnepeg will not grow the TV contract (all Leafs/Habs all the time anyway), wont change the taxation issues of Canadian franchises and wont change the exchange rate. The existing arena in Winnepeg will not place that team anywhere near top 10 in attendence and wont substantially increase the national sponsorships of Labatt, McDs and HD.

BTW.... McDonalds is a major sponsor of the Lightning in Tampa and Hartford shouldn't get another team either.

They would grow according to growth in viewers. I personally think Hamilton will never get a team but Winnipeg and Qc can actually help grow ratings here in Canada, especially since there would be more Canadian matchups. Like he said also, canadian teams other then the sens turned a profit the last time around, it woulnt be surprising to see them all turn one this year. For example, MTL has seen a growth of revenue while also having a lower budget.
 

jeffbear

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baston said:
I was in Raleigh when they were playing the Wings for the cup a couple of years ago. Even though you could feel the love for hockey, I can swear hockey was more the talk of the town in mid-july in Quebec City than in Raleigh in the middle of a Stanley Cup final. I really can't stand watching a Canes' game on tv and seeing all those empty seats ... People would kill for one of those in here. A Mike Ricci haircut would get more news coverage in Quebec back in 1993 than a Stanley Cup would in Carolina. Quebec City has about 600 000 citizens ... Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there are about 300 000 in Raleigh ...

OK. You're wrong. Raleigh is a very spread out and diverse metro area that encompasses several adjacent municipalities. The greater metro area is up to almost a million souls and is still showing growth in the top 10 of all US municipal areas ... and has been for over a decade.

As for the local buzz during the 2002 Cup Finals ... I've been in Raleigh for 8 NCAA Men's Basketball National championships (between Duke, NC State and UNC) and the interest level on the street was remarkably similar. I think you might have been viewing proceedings through Quebec-colored glasses.
 

jester099

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snorkyller said:
I think Quebec Nordiques could get as much fans in all the province than NYR, NYI and NJ are getting together.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself there.

The Rangers are a team with a lot of history, and they probably have more fans than the entire province of Quebec have population...
 

Troy McClure

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jester099 said:
People in Quebec are far more interested in hockey than people in Houston. I think that's a given, and I don't know why I'm arguing this... It seams so evident...
That you seem to think you have such an easy and obvious answer to a vey complex problem should tell you that either your assumptions are wrong or your understanding of the problem is wrong. I can tell you though that you are wrong on both counts.

You have the very wrong and very simple assumption that fan interest is the only thing that matters in success of a hockey team, and that is wrong. You also base your understanding of fan interest in Houston on how their AHL team does, and that is wrong.

But go ahead and keep telling us how Quebec City, a town which has all the population and business power of a suburb to a major city in Texas, is a better investment. I know I'll take a city like Houston any day if I'm an owner. More potential for future growth, more business interest, better tax situation, cheaper arena lease, more people to buy merchandising, more of everything. Or, I could go to Quebec City where what I have on day one is the best it'll ever get.

snorkyller said:
I would be happy if somebody should tell me why and how teams as New-Jersey, Washigton and Florida manages to survive with so much weak attendances.
It is simply illogical.
It's cheaper to do business here in the US. They don't have to sell out to survive.

snorkyller said:
And I wonder how many of them are still alive. I suspect that these teams are getting some kind of help... from nhl for example
Help? Sure, but not help from the NHL. Help in the form of paying much less in taxes every year. Help in the form of cheaply built arenas with cheap leases. Help in the form of a better exchange rate. Help in the form of more corporate money. The league doesn't need to help.
 

Transported Upstater

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buckyhockey8 said:
I clicked the link and your high is 42F today our high is 13F and I live in Wisconsin, 42 sounds like t-shirt and shorts weather right now. When they say never seen ice what I assume is that kids don't play shinny on the local pond. I could be wrong but to my knowledge your ponds don't get an ice cover strong enough to skate on. Is this correct?


I hate the "never seen ice" argument. Have you forgotten that there are many northerners (like yours truly, hence my username) in the Sun Belt?

It's over 30 degrees colder in Tally than it is in Miami right now. Still, listening to people complain about 50 degrees F is hilarious.
 
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HansH

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Jordoe28 said:
If you're going to move a team to Quebec, why not move New Jersey. How many years have they now had a top team in the league yet they still can barely manage to fill 12000 seats. There obviously isn't a fan base there.
Because they're already getting their new arena, in Newark -- which should help them immensely, as they won't be stranded out in a swamp, next to nothing.
 

jester099

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Troy McClure said:
That you seem to think you have such an easy and obvious answer to a vey complex problem should tell you that either your assumptions are wrong or your understanding of the problem is wrong. I can tell you though that you are wrong on both counts.

You have the very wrong and very simple assumption that fan interest is the only thing that matters in success of a hockey team, and that is wrong. You also base your understanding of fan interest in Houston on how their AHL team does, and that is wrong.

But go ahead and keep telling us how Quebec City, a town which has all the population and business power of a suburb to a major city in Texas, is a better investment. I know I'll take a city like Houston any day if I'm an owner. More potential for future growth, more business interest, better tax situation, cheaper arena lease, more people to buy merchandising, more of everything. Or, I could go to Quebec City where what I have on day one is the best it'll ever get.

I think you get me wrong.

I've never said fan base is the only important thing, but I think it's a thing you can't neglect if you don't want a league without flavour.

Giving franchises to cities just because they are big, with no importance to the fan base doesn't make sense IMHO. Show me a hockey league with only big market cities like Houston, Florida and Raleigh, and I'll show you a league nobody cares about.

If I argued that Montreal deserved a Basketball franchise more than Portland because it's bigger (I think it is, I suck in geography :) ), has probably more business, and things like that, people would laugh themselves silly.

Is Quebec City a big City ? Hell no, but Edmonton and Calgary neither. I would defenately be pissed as hell, like all canadiens if they moved either of those cities to Houston for the sake of better Business.

I think we need more Edmontons and Calgarys, places where under the new economics teams can not only survive, but compete, and where people are passionate about the game. We need more of these teams, not less. I'm pretty sure Houston wouldn't be that kind of team, Quebec and Winnipeg would for sure.

Our views are different. You think economics rules all. That's why you wouldn't have a Franchise in a lesser market. I respect that. But not everybody think like you. Some people brought a team to Quebec in the past even if it was a small market. It worked for a time, but the screwed economics of the league made the team go away. Now that the economics are fixed, and teams in lesser markets can not only survive but compete, some people that think alike those that brought the team in the first place (Heck even the same people is possible) are going to try it again. I GARANTEE it. Maybe it wont work, but it's not because they are not going to try, and it's not because it's not possible.

You think "what can the city give to hockey", and that's allright. Some people think "what can hockey do for the city". A hockey team in Quebec would do a world of good to the city and it's businesses, and some rich people that love the city are aware of that. The motives to bring hockey to Quebec are numerous. I'm sure the same thing can be said for Winnipeg.
 
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