Poor individual seasons?

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sunb

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BigAl said:
I don't think Andrew Ladd should have gone #4, or even top 15 for that matter. I do think he has a CHANCE at making the NHL, but only as a grinder. I see this guy miss making so many simple plays. I wonder if anyone ever taught him how to correctly accept a pass, as the puck always seems to hop over his stick or flub off it when he tries to make a one-time pass. Although he is showing his hunger and heart early in the WHL playoffs, I don't see his game getting much better. I think he is one of these players who has all the PHYSICAL tools, but has already hit his peak and won't get much better. In retrospect.....there is no way Ladd at #4 is justified in my opinion.

I take offense to a couple of points in your post:

1.) Ladd is the safest prospect in the 2004 class with exception to Ovechkin. He is a lock for the NHL imo.

2.) Also, Ladd hasn't peaked yet. The NHL would be a joke if all player peaked at age 20.

3.) Ladd doesn't need to justify his #4 spot in the WHL. He is foxing a successful NHL career and will probably have a long 10+ year career. Get back to us then as to whether you think his position is justified or not.
 

Asiaoil

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X-SHARKIE said:
I think we should be light on the 2003 prospects in the CHL.

Alot of these kids are devoloping there games away from the puck and becoming more complete players.

Stats don't tell the whole story.

Actually 2003 is not so bad - although our expectations may be a bit out of line given the hype - a large number of the 2004 prospects have been WAY more disappointing IMHO.

The Oilers did OK though - Dubnyk, Shremp, Tesliuk, Paukovich, Bryan Young, Stephane Goulet, Tyler Spurgeon and Bjorn Burling - best overall job by our scouts in years. All of these guys had great years and only Max Gordichuk looks like a bust from our entire draft.
 

BigAl

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
I take offense to a couple of points in your post:

1.) Ladd is the safest prospect in the 2004 class with exception to Ovechkin. He is a lock for the NHL imo.

2.) Also, Ladd hasn't peaked yet. The NHL would be a joke if all player peaked at age 20.

3.) Ladd doesn't need to justify his #4 spot in the WHL. He is foxing a successful NHL career and will probably have a long 10+ year career. Get back to us then as to whether you think his position is justified or not.

Yeah, like I said.....he is ONE OF THESE players who I feel has already hit his peak. Of course not all players hit their peak at that age. That would be ridiculous. And I do feel that Ladd has done nothing to justify him going at 4th overall. Just my opinion, please don't take offense.
 

sunb

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BigAl said:
Yeah, like I said.....he is ONE OF THESE players who I feel has already hit his peak. Of course not all players hit their peak at that age. That would be ridiculous. And I do feel that Ladd has done nothing to justify him going at 4th overall. Just my opinion, please don't take offense.

Yeah I guess my post was a bit strong considering it was merely opinion. However, I don't agree with the opinion at all.
 

cj

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Ladd is quickly becoming one of the most underrated prospects on this site. I really don't understand why he gets so much flack. Is he just not flashy enough?

He may have had a poor season statistically, but in every game I saw him in this season, he was easily the best player for the Hitmen. I'd also venture to say he was among the best for Canada at the World Junior's. I don't know how anyone could watch him play and not like him. He has all the tools to be at least a very good third liner in the NHL if not better (and I happen to think he'll be better.)

Not in the top 20? I can't even see him out of the top 5. Can anyone seriously list 20 players they'd rather have than Andrew Ladd from the 2004 draft?

By the way, he's currently 2nd in playoff scoring for the Hitmen (5th overall in the WHL) with 4 goals and 1 assist in 4 games. (Getzlaf leads the Hitmen with 1 goal and 5 assists.)
 

Askel

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BigAl said:
Yeah, like I said.....he is ONE OF THESE players who I feel has already hit his peak. Of course not all players hit their peak at that age. That would be ridiculous. And I do feel that Ladd has done nothing to justify him going at 4th overall. Just my opinion, please don't take offense.

I dont think that any player hit their peak at 19 (please mention one exept for Ladd). There is so much to learn in tactics and when you grow older you get stronger (at least until your 25 or so) plus training gives you the opportunity to finetune your skills. Ladd has size skill and grit I see no reason that he shouldnt make it to NHL.
 

the_gman83

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Carl O'Steen said:
The guy dropped off 30 points from a rookie season that was the reason he went at #4. .

I'm sure it was a lot more than his numbers that impressed Carolina enough to take Ladd at the #4 spot. Otherwise, why not take Brandon Dubinsky, who had more points in the same league?

They watched him play, and they liked what they saw. I'd be willing to bet that, even if Ladd only put up a 45-point year last year(like he did this year), that he would have still been selected in the top 15, or at least the top 20.

Of course, it's true that more was expected out of him this year, but I doubt Carolina is really worried, because they know what Ladd brings. He will more than likely play in the NHL in some capacity, and the only question is how much he will be able to contribute offensively.

I just wonder if your argument works in reverse. Take a guy like Ryan Kesler. At the time of his draft, he was considered a safe bet to make the NHL, but wasn't expected to contribute offensively. Now, as one of the youngest players in the AHL, Kesler is putting up good numbers, and actually leads his team in goals. If we redo the 2003 draft(which was deeper than 2004), would Kesler move up?
 

PSUhockey34

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trahans99 said:
MS said:
There were only 2 or 3 players from that entire first round who really stepped it up this year - Nokelainen, Meszaros, Zajac.

I'd add Schremp in there as he's improved his scoring and has learned alot about winning and playing better defence on the Knights.

One would think Green might've stepped up his play this year
 

markov`

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Vlad The Impaler said:
No, I think what you are saying has merit. The "ballpark" is just that to me, a rough estimate. I've got absolutely no problem if someone prefers Olesz now, or at draft time. I just mean, I didn't see any player that truly stood out as a no-brainer at 4th overall.

Olesz would have been a worthy #4. My concern at the time was the concussion and not knowing him all that well. Interestingly, I think he is a different but still comparable player to Ladd. A little more skill, less grit.

Right now I'd probably pick him over Ladd, now that he appears to have recovered well. But not by a landslide.

Are you kidding me? Take your Andrew Ladd fanboy glasses off, the guy doesn't have the half the offensive potential Olesz possess.

There is a lot of players I would've take over Ladd. Olesz, Picard, Smid, Tukonen, Stafford, Radulov, Nokelainen, Schwarz, Chipchura, Meszaros, Schremp.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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markov` said:
Are you kidding me? Take your Andrew Ladd fanboy glasses off, the guy doesn't have the half the offensive potential Olesz possess.
"I think he is a different but still comparable player to Ladd. A little more skill, less grit."

He is talking about Olesz saying Olesz has a little more skill and less grit.
 

markov`

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Jason MacIsaac said:
"I think he is a different but still comparable player to Ladd. A little more skill, less grit."

He is talking about Olesz saying Olesz has a little more skill and less grit.

I know. Olesz isn't only "a little" more offensively skilled than Ladd.
 

FearTheFlyers

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trahans99 said:
I'd add Schremp in there as he's improved his scoring and has learned alot about winning and playing better defence on the Knights.

Winning? Yes. But Schremps D is still ridicolously horrible.
 

Darcy Wakaluk

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Here's the top ten from the 2004 draft:

1. Alexander Ovechkin
2. Evgeni Malkin
3. Cam Barker
4. Andrew Ladd
5. Blake Wheeler
6. Al Montoya
7. Rostislav Olesz
8. Alexandre Picard
9. Ladislav Smid
10. Boris Valabik

The three players chosen above Andrew Ladd are definately more intreguing prospects, but we're not here to debate that since they were already chosen and Carolina had no shot at them.

Looking at the remainder of the Top 10, with the exception of Olesz, there isn't really a player you could easily say looks better than Ladd so far. Montoya's play has really slumped this year, and Wheeler and Valabik were both stretches, selected earlier than they should have because they had good size. Cases could be made for Picard and Smid to have been selected above Ladd, but neither are clear cut choices.

In comparison to other years, Ladd is a rather weak number 4 selection, but when you look at that year's draft class, he isn't that bad a pick. I seriously doubt that a few years down the road, Ladd will be one of the five best players out of this draft but Carolina decided to go the safe route, selecting a servicable player with some offensive capabilities who will likely have an NHL career spanning over a decade, rather than roll the dice on a riskier pick with more offensive upside. Given the lack of top-end talent in the past draft, this may end up being a smart move for the Carolina franchise.
 

Levitate

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My 2004 Draft Bust = Al Montoya....Man did he look like crap in the world juniors.

a tad early to be calling anyone from 2004 a bust...he definatly had an up and down season but the talent is there for sure

i'm curious to see where he'll be at next year actually...back in college or to the AHL
 
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