[Poll] Will Carlyle be fired ? - Register your prediction

Status
Not open for further replies.

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,580
11,063
WEB-Randy_Carlyle_1___Content.jpg


Who thinks Carlyle will be fired ? Register your prediction.

Feel free to say why or why not.

The benchmark is .... will Carlyle be the coach on the opening day of 2014-2015.

It seems like "a lot" of people assume he's going to be fired.

If you don't think he will be fired ... put your prediction genius in this thread.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,580
11,063
6-0 for "Fired".
Nobody with the guts to say he wont be ?
 

Punch Drunk Loov

Gaaaaary Roberts!
Dec 6, 2011
4,744
2,278
He seems like a good guy so I feel bad - but I'd be surprised if he stuck around. He lost the team clearly, may not have been his fault but it looks like it
 

hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
6,356
1,053
6-0 for "Fired".
Nobody with the guts to say he wont be ?

i said no .......im sure he ll get canned but this team woudnt play the way u need to to win games in the NHL.....without world class goaltending wed be in the ekblad hunt ...i hope randy gets another job ,these players just went out and played shinny every nite
 

AustonMitchWilly

Registered User
Jul 3, 2013
2,315
1
I certainly hope not. I think the character flaws in the dressing room determined the outcome more than a poor coach did.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,950
11,940
Leafs Home Board
Scapegoat needed- Check

Exactly, there is going to need to be a fall guy.

While this player personnel has now epically collapsed under 2 different coaches and systems, firing the coach is the easy way out then admitting your rebuild plan is 1000 miles off course.
 

headwire

Registered User
Jan 25, 2012
464
0
Toronto
Exactly, there is going to need to be a fall guy.

While this player personnel has now epically collapsed under 2 different coaches and systems, firing the coach is the easy way out then admitting your rebuild plan is 1000 miles off course.

I think that Carlyle shares as much blame as the players. I've read that his systems are antiquated, and did not fit the player personnel.

That said, the easiest thing for new upper management to do (Shanahan) to demonstrate that they are "doing something" to appease the fanbase is to fire the coach.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
11,602
2,209
Scapegoat needed- Check

Exactly, there is going to need to be a fall guy.

While this player personnel has now epically collapsed under 2 different coaches and systems, firing the coach is the easy way out then admitting your rebuild plan is 1000 miles off course.

Yep. Standard management 101 type of ploy. Shanahan can look good in his new job by canning RC.
 

ForSpareParts*

Guest
"The leafs are not 1 coach away from fixing this problem"

-Scott Morrison, Hockey Central
 

Teeder9

Free rent for Mo?
Oct 14, 2011
7,537
3
Ontario
So you're saying that he should be absolved of all blame? Everybody is to blame, including the coach which is why he is going to get canned. Him and some players need to be shipped out. Randy is getting fired on Monday.

I really said no such thing.
 

Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
27,100
5,734
Toronto
Exactly, there is going to need to be a fall guy.

While this player personnel has now epically collapsed under 2 different coaches and systems, firing the coach is the easy way out then admitting your rebuild plan is 1000 miles off course.

Okay, so they keep Carlyle?? I can only imagine your reaction if they did that.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
11,602
2,209
Yep. Standard management 101 type of ploy. Shanahan can look good in his new job by canning RC.

But are you saying that Randy shouldn't be blamed at all? I think he is part of the problem for sure. Why shouldn't he get fired?

Nope. Not saying that.

Just saying its the low hanging fruit and easy move for Leafs management. Its standard operating procedure and how execs make themselves look good, especially newly hired execs.
 

Teeder9

Free rent for Mo?
Oct 14, 2011
7,537
3
Ontario
Okay, so they keep Carlyle?? I can only imagine your reaction if they did that.

Back to Nonis. Did he state that he thought this year and next weren't going to be good years? If he fires Carlyle, what does it say about him that even when he admits he didn't expect anything like playoffs or playoff success that the coach is fired for failing with a team he himself expected nothing from? If Shanny or TL fire Carlyle what does it say about what they think about Nonis? What you or I think about Carlyle is immaterial in this case. For the record however, I wanted him fired when he refused to call a timeout last year in game 7
 

Finnish your Czech

J'aime Les offres hostiles
Nov 25, 2009
64,457
1,986
Toronto
The players should be traded before Carlyle, but I'd players like Phaneuf, Lupul, Franson, Kadri aren't traded, then you have to fire Carlyle because he's clearly lost the room.
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
12,624
4,094
GTA or the UK
I think he's gone on Monday.

I think the reason why made the Shanahan decision public knowledge and official on Friday, but aren't revealing him until Monday, has something to do with Carlyle's last game in charge being somewhere in the middle.

He's not a good coach - statistically and possession-based stats just destroy him, and not just here but in Anaheim as well.

But he does seem a nice guy, and he has the pedigree and experience to suggest that he will get back into coaching as soon as he's ready to get back into coaching.


Back to Nonis. Did he state that he thought this year and next weren't going to be good years? If he fires Carlyle, what does it say about him that even when he admits he didn't expect anything like playoffs or playoff success that the coach is fired for failing with a team he himself expected nothing from? If Shanny or TL fire Carlyle what does it say about what they think about Nonis? What you or I think about Carlyle is immaterial in this case. For the record however, I wanted him fired when he refused to call a timeout last year in game 7

Everything about Nonis going to the board and saying that he expected the team to be poor is just wrong and reaps of trying to manage public expectations.

Make no mistake about it - after getting Bolland and signing Clarkson, everyone in that organization expected progress. If they expected to be a "bad" hockey this season, they wouldn't have burned so many assets and cap space last summer to try and strengthen and simply would have been patient and let this thing play out.

Anything you hear now, or over the past 2 weeks, about them knowing they were going to be a bad team, is nothing more than ttrying to put a PR spin on this and manage fan's anger.

Don't fall for it. You in particular are much smarter than that
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,212
9,189
I don't understand how by firing Carlyle it's giving into the players. This is what Randy did (or did not) do whilst as coach this year.


From the hop - the Leafs weren't playing well. Like they looked decent enough in training camp but October 1st 2013 - the team did not look right. His comments: well I keep telling them they have to play more defensively, we're going to lose games soon like this.

In November-December i think there were like 9 wins in total and 4 of them were in regulation. you can put a chunk of that due to the fact we lost 3 centres in a 3 game span, but it wasn't changing the fact that we were brutally being out played. Randy's response - bench Gardiner/Rielly instead of nailing Franson's giveaway butt in the press box.

January - lost 4 games in a row in horrendous fashion (blow-out, gong show, blow out, and barely won but played slightly better). Instead of now taking the time to fix whatever system he had in place, Randy is now deploying what is lovingly called "Scrabble Face" looked heavenward, mystified and "oh God, why me?" the past several months now he keeps going "we stopped skating." "we lack compete level"

Then we win 11 out of 14 games. And then we hit the Olympic break. And then we come back and we look even worse. Every other team had their "oh yah, it's the Break, but we're over it now" the Leafs just played crap poor hockey. Randy's big move - go to 11 forwards, 7 D to get Ranger in (which is a good thing), but this means he's riding Kessel and JVR more, despite the fact that they were hitting career minutes before the Olympics, went to the Olympics put on a clinic and came back. NOTHING else changed - no systems, no line up juggling, other than trying to find someone to play with David Clarkson (to which at this point, knowing how brutal he was, you were better served just healthy scratching him)

Then we go to California, win 2 out of 3. Carlyle - knowing that Bernier wasn't 100 percent (and even the player saying yah i';m goood) - decides to play Bernier in LA instead of Reimer and Bernier is hurt.

Then we proceed to enter the Collapse of 2014, where the Leafs could not even pick up a win in regulation. And whilst everyone was playing like hot garbage - did Randy even consider then to change something, line combinations, bench someone, start MacIntyre anything? Nope. not a thing, he kept tossing the same lineup over and over again. Even when there were games where a guy (phaneuf) was utter, hot garbage - when pressing for a late goal, do you put out the guy who was having the beast of a game (Gardiner--St Louis, Rielly--Detroit?) no. You toss Phaneuf over the boards.

Game seventy nine was when Randy decided to blow up the defensive parings. the practice before game eighty he's having break down practices and what needs to happen

Forget the stupid "Okay" comments, he then goes - "well I don't know why Carter Ashton doesn't have more confidence when he plays up here, so we're going to play him with Kadri." YOU"RE THE ONE WHO PLAYS HIM LESS THAN 5 MINUTES! How much confidence is he going to have when he doesn't get to play?!


He barely played a competent 4th line (say what you will about the leafs being cap-strapped, you could have, should have sent Orr/McLaren down to the minors the moment you realised (that would be October) that the League wasn't going to play "hey, let's try to beat up the Leafs!" this season, bring up WHOMEVER and create a fast skating, offensive-minded energy fourth line.

After a month, even when we had a winning record, instead of taking that entire week to develop a new plan that the players could actually execute, he didn't, and kept pressing the same system over and over again, to the point that every practice you actually have to break down and go after key points.

He had no idea how to read the flow of the game.
he didn't hold the right players accountable nearly enough.
he made changes way too late and they only last one game


That's all on Randy. I've taught and if I keep teaching in one specific way and my students kept failing - at some point the principal is going to come to me and go - well if I knew they were struggling and failing why didn't I do anything/something to change my lesson plan? You can blame the students for not doing their part (and I'm not holding the players blameless here, and I do expect a good part of them to be traded, and/or not signed to play here), but Randy's not this innocent, delicate flower whose being sacrificed on the alter of Scrapegoat either. Dude epically failed to do his job.

When your star goalie comes in and says several times that the defensive system isn't good and in LA and other cities most deploy a different (and winnable) system, and you don't even attempt to make a change? yah. Problem. He (Nonis, Loiselle (who is an idiot. even I could probably run the cap better than he and I have dyscalulia), and Poulin) excused most of this problem by saying well we look at scoring chances, not shots, or from the outside etc.

Randy should be booted, and truthfully so should that entire management corps.
 

Teeder9

Free rent for Mo?
Oct 14, 2011
7,537
3
Ontario
I think he's gone on Monday.

I think the reason why made the Shanahan decision public knowledge and official on Friday, but aren't revealing him until Monday, has something to do with Carlyle's last game in charge being somewhere in the middle.

He's not a good coach - statistically and possession-based stats just destroy him, and not just here but in Anaheim as well.

But he does seem a nice guy, and he has the pedigree and experience to suggest that he will get back into coaching as soon as he's ready to get back into coaching.




Everything about Nonis going to the board and saying that he expected the team to be poor is just wrong and reaps of trying to manage public expectations.

Make no mistake about it - after getting Bolland and signing Clarkson, everyone in that organization expected progress. If they expected to be a "bad" hockey this season, they wouldn't have burned so many assets and cap space last summer to try and strengthen and simply would have been patient and let this thing play out.

Anything you hear now, or over the past 2 weeks, about them knowing they were going to be a bad team, is nothing more than ttrying to put a PR spin on this and manage fan's anger.

Don't fall for it. You in particular are much smarter than that

I don't fall for it which is why I mentioned scapegoat int he first place. I don't even disagree with him being fired, I just think it's good for posterity for it to be mentioned, so next year with coach "X" we can look back and know where the problem actually lies
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,950
11,940
Leafs Home Board
I think that Carlyle shares as much blame as the players. I've read that his systems are antiquated, and did not fit the player personnel.

That said, the easiest thing for new upper management to do (Shanahan) to demonstrate that they are "doing something" to appease the fanbase is to fire the coach.

The player personnel was assembled for Ron Wilson run and gun rush hockey and Carlyle wants to play puck possession game because that is what he believes is successful like LA, Boston, Anaheim etc.

Its not the coaches fault that the players he is provided don't play his desired style.. No coach would say "I have a bunch of small soft weak defensive players, so screw defense". Its the GM job to provide the player personnel that suits the coach preferred style of play.

This is why this team is so bad defensively because its a bunch of players that are not willing to play 2-way hockey because many are only interesting in scoring goals.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
I'd love Carlyle to stick around with this team but I think management and players will make him the scapegoat this time around, just like Wilson.

No matter though, the players still suck and management still has no clue what they are doing.

Real change is on its way soon.

And once this change happens, this team can only hope to have as good a coach as Randy Carlyle.
 

SourGrapes

You Kids Out There
Dec 30, 2013
568
0
Mimico
It's a shame there has to be a fall guy. I like Carlyle, and I think the blame should fall on the players and potentially Nonis.

Carlyle's system worked last year, but they lost players and the team changed. In the player's defense, Carlyle did absolutely nothing to try and change it (past benching Franger earlier in the year), and is just now deciding to do something about it.

I think we need to look at our record against top ten teams to show just how much blame should fall on the players. When playing top-ten teams, we win the majority of our games. It's when we play teams like Columbus (those three losses earlier in the year are really coming back to bite us in the ass). We had absolutely no compete level in games that the players deemed irrelevant or easy wins.

This shouldn't fall on the players. Knute Rockne couldn't have inspired this team to do something. There's a definite issue in the locker room, and it won't be solved by firing Carlyle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad