Poll #1: Which D from the 2012 draft class would you take going forward?

[Patrik Barkov]

Well I accidentally just voted for Dumba. I can really be dumba s a rock sometimes

 

[Paul4587]

Rielly > Offensively. Defensively it's pretty close, but i go with Rielly. He's been our #1 D all season and has done a fantastic job going up against the opposing teams top players on a nightly basis. Lindholm is a solid player but i really feel like he's massively over-rated, largely due to draft position/rookie year hype.

Defensively it’s not even remotely close. Lindholm is the far superior defensive player and always has been. The eye test backs his up, as do the numbers.

 

[Ainec]

of all the dmen in the league I think Lindholm is the closest to Lidstrom in terms of awareness

2012 was a great draft for dmen

sad how Murray is not even a top 4 D

 

[joe dirte]

My point is if Anaheim misses the playoffs what's the good in saying how great Lindholm is defensively.

because every team starts somewhere and builds. it's not like 2 years ago Rielly was useless and we shouldn't have cared.

 

[donut]

I like Lindholm. Parayko close behind.

 

[Sojourn]

Rielly > Offensively. Defensively it's pretty close, but i go with Rielly. He's been our #1 D all season and has done a fantastic job going up against the opposing teams top players on a nightly basis. Lindholm is a solid player but i really feel like he's massively over-rated, largely due to draft position/rookie year hype.

Uh, what? He was considered a reach at 6th overall, and he had little hype.

And you're actually using that argument to support a player that was drafted higher, and hyped to a far greater degree.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I can't believe Lindholm is winning this. He is 1 dimensional defensively.

I think him and Slavin are very comparable.

I would take Parakyo over both. Even Rielly or Trouba (I find both overrated) have a solid case over Lindholm.

 

[HanSolo]

Rielly > Offensively. Defensively it's pretty close, but i go with Rielly. He's been our #1 D all season and has done a fantastic job going up against the opposing teams top players on a nightly basis.

Lindholm is a solid player but i really feel like he's massively over-rated, largely due to draft position/rookie year hype.

First, no. Defensively it's not close. Rielly has come around defensively no question but there's a difference between what Rielly is able to do defensively and what Lindholm is able to do. Lindholm is able to fully suppress offensive chances through where he's standing alone, before getting into his stick work and ability to use the body to displace the puck and exit the zone and everything else he does. As it has been said this passes the eye and stats test. Lindholm at his best can control what happens in his own zone along with Manson and completely shut a situation down regularly. They're two of the best shot suppressing defensemen in the league. Same can't be said for Rielly.

Second point the idea that Lindholm benefited from rookie year hype is pure fiction. People didn't notice how good Lindholm was until his sophomore year. And you can bemoan overrated all you want. His numbers don't lie and they've consistently been tops in defense in his draft class.

Yup. a draft of stacked defensemen, and the top 4 selected players were lousy

Griffin Reinhart was a baffling pick to me at number 4 at the time. I could not understand what people saw in him. At least Murray, Galchenyuk, and Yak at the time seemed like great picks. Seeing Reinhart go 4th gave me hope Anaheim could get one of Rielly, Trouba, or Forsberg. More than pleased with what we got though.

 

[HanSolo]

I can't believe Lindholm is winning this. He is 1 dimensional defensively.

I think him and Slavin are very comparable.

I would take Parakyo over both. Even Rielly or Trouba (I find both overrated) have a solid case over Lindholm.

Resists urge not to state old cliche.

All I've got for you is you're wrong. Plain and simple.

 

[Sojourn]

I can't believe Lindholm is winning this. He is 1 dimensional defensively.

I think him and Slavin are very comparable.

I would take Parakyo over both. Even Rielly or Trouba (I find both overrated) have a solid case over Lindholm.

Lindholm is one of the best in the league defensively.

I think it's inaccurate to call him one-dimensional defensively, because he moves the puck well, and is actually pretty effective offensively when given the opportunity. There's a well of potential there. Describing him as such really just suggests you don't see him much. Moving past that...

For the sake of argument, even if we wanted to call him that, he's pretty elite at that one dimension.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Rielly > Offensively. Defensively it's pretty close, but i go with Rielly. He's been our #1 D all season and has done a fantastic job going up against the opposing teams top players on a nightly basis. Lindholm is a solid player but i really feel like he's massively over-rated, largely due to draft position/rookie year hype.

His draft posistion is kinda irrelavent, anaheim went off the board on him he was the most under the radar dmen in that draft

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Since Anaheim is a bubble team to just make the playoffs this season it doesn't matter how good defensively Lindholm is compared to Rielly.

Ducks are still in playoff race and if thats your idea of what makes a good player how come you didnt mention

Lindholm 51 playoff games
Rielly 6 playoff games

 

[HanSolo]

Ducks are still in playoff race and if thats your idea of what makes a good player how come you didnt mention

Lindholm 51 playoff games
Rielly 6 playoff games

 

[zeke]

Reilly is the top dog here. The only one here getting true elite matchup usage and excelling in it.

 

[zeke]

Legend:

Letter Grades = Quality of Competition measured by opponents' time on ice, Converted into Letter Grades for simplicity
p60 = points per 60 minutes
CF% = Corsi For Percentage (i.e. shot attempts for percentage)
xGF% = Expected Goals For Percentage (i.e. shot attempt percentage adjusted for shot quality) - this stat is already adjusted for zone deployment and game score
In Brackets = CF% and xGF% relative to team


1.Rielly: 66gms, ES 18:18 (A), 1.04p60, 51.7cf% (+2.6), 51.2xgf% (+0.8) / PP 2:12, 8.00p60 / SH 1:12

Reilly plays against the toughest competition, and still dominates offensively (at ES and on the PP) and is very good possession wise.

2.Slavin: 72gms, ES 19:13 (A-), 0.85p60, 54.4cf% (+1.3), 55.9xgf% (+3.1) / PP 0:33, 2.95p60 / SH 2:41
3.Lindholm: 60gms, ES 18:20 (B+), 0.84p60, 52.7cf% (+4.5), 51.8xgf% (+4.8) / PP 1:46, 4.03p60 / SH 2:29

Very close call here between two excellent defensive dmen with a bit of offensive skill too. hamphuis has slightly better numbers but slavin does it against tougher competition. they could easily be switched.

4.Trouba: 52gms, ES 17:52 (A-), 0.98p60, 51.2cf% (-0.1), 54.0xgf% (+4.2) / PP 1:28, 2.33p60 / SH 2:30

Trouba holds his own against tough competition. for some reason his good even strength offense doesn't carry over to the PP though.

5.Parayko: 72gms, ES 18:45 (B), 0.86p60, 53.4cf% (+3.2), 54.0xgf% (+4.8) / PP 2:02, 3.70p60 / SH 2:00
6.Ghost: 69gms, ES 17:40 (B), 1.12p60, 50.7cf% (+1.8), 52.0xgf% (+2.4) / PP 3:44, 6.03p60 / SH 0:04

Two complete opposites, thriving against secondary competition, in their own ways.

7.Dumba: 73gms, ES 19:29 (B+), 1.20p60, 47.3cf% (-0.6), 51.0xgf% (-0.5) / PP 2:18, 3.23p60 / SH 1:40

The most flawed dman in the group - is dominating offensively but struggling to be a positive possession player even against secondary quality of competition.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Tough one.

Lindholm or Parayko. Toss a coin.

Also been really impressed by Ghost this year. Any of these 3 I guess.

 

[Flair Hay]

I picked Parayko but really these guys are all bona fide top pair with different styles. None of them are franchise defensemen, but with more experience you never know.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Lindholm for me

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Lindholm is one of the best in the league defensively.

I think it's inaccurate to call him one-dimensional defensively, because he moves the puck well, and is actually pretty effective offensively when given the opportunity. There's a well of potential there. Describing him as such really just suggests you don't see him much. Moving past that...

For the sake of argument, even if we wanted to call him that, he's pretty elite at that one dimension.

Oh no I absolutely agree. I've seen him a lot (imo) and he is the future vlasic. Even though he has a nice first pass, I've never really seen him have the aggressiveness or offensive instincts to really tilt the ice in the offensive zone.

I just find a player like Parakyo more well rounded than Lindholm.

 

[Paul4587]

Reilly is the top dog here. The only one here getting true elite matchup usage and excelling in it.

I must have missed all year where Lindholm has been tasked with the toughest matchups for the Ducks. Not to mention he’s a significantly better PKer than Rielly and has much better possession numbers.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I must have missed all year where Lindholm has been tasked with the toughest matchups for the Ducks. Not to mention he’s a significantly better PKer than Rielly and has much better possession numbers.

Nope the man has spoken... its rielly

 

[stl76]

Legend:

Letter Grades = Quality of Competition measured by opponents' time on ice, Converted into Letter Grades for simplicity
p60 = points per 60 minutes
CF% = Corsi For Percentage (i.e. shot attempts for percentage)
xGF% = Expected Goals For Percentage (i.e. shot attempt percentage adjusted for shot quality) - this stat is already adjusted for zone deployment and game score
In Brackets = CF% and xGF% relative to team


1.Rielly: 66gms, ES 18:18 (A), 1.04p60, 51.7cf% (+2.6), 51.2xgf% (+0.8) / PP 2:12, 8.00p60 / SH 1:12

Reilly plays against the toughest competition, and still dominates offensively (at ES and on the PP) and is very good possession wise.

2.Slavin: 72gms, ES 19:13 (A-), 0.85p60, 54.4cf% (+1.3), 55.9xgf% (+3.1) / PP 0:33, 2.95p60 / SH 2:41
3.Lindholm: 60gms, ES 18:20 (B+), 0.84p60, 52.7cf% (+4.5), 51.8xgf% (+4.8) / PP 1:46, 4.03p60 / SH 2:29

Very close call here between two excellent defensive dmen with a bit of offensive skill too. hamphuis has slightly better numbers but slavin does it against tougher competition. they could easily be switched.

4.Trouba: 52gms, ES 17:52 (A-), 0.98p60, 51.2cf% (-0.1), 54.0xgf% (+4.2) / PP 1:28, 2.33p60 / SH 2:30

Trouba holds his own against tough competition. for some reason his good even strength offense doesn't carry over to the PP though.

5.Parayko: 72gms, ES 18:45 (B), 0.86p60, 53.4cf% (+3.2), 54.0xgf% (+4.8) / PP 2:02, 3.70p60 / SH 2:00
6.Ghost: 69gms, ES 17:40 (B), 1.12p60, 50.7cf% (+1.8), 52.0xgf% (+2.4) / PP 3:44, 6.03p60 / SH 0:04

Two complete opposites, thriving against secondary competition, in their own ways.

7.Dumba: 73gms, ES 19:29 (B+), 1.20p60, 47.3cf% (-0.6), 51.0xgf% (-0.5) / PP 2:18, 3.23p60 / SH 1:40

The most flawed dman in the group - is dominating offensively but struggling to be a positive possession player even against secondary quality of competition.

5v5 TOI%QoC:

Lindholm - 29.14
Parayko - 29.04
Ghost - 28.93

How do you have Lindholm's QoC as B+, Parayko's as a B? Parayko is closer to Lindholm than Ghost, yet by your arbitrary cut off he is downgraded...despite the fact that Parayko's and Lindholm's other stats are almost identical you choose to separate them into different tiers. Agenda much?

 

[North Cole]

You can tell which people don't watch west games. Lol, taking a dump on parayko and lind....get real. Would take either of those guys on the oilers today, waive the trade freeze and make it happen. On a side note - I really need to stop praising anahiem and San Jose players.

HFwars: the Eastern bias strikes back

 

[Ainec]

it's hard to justify voting for Parayko when he's behind Pietrangelo (not his fault)

whilst Gostisbehere is the top dog in Philly

 

[Morgs]

Wouldn't surprise me.

Also of note is the fact that Rielly doesn't lead his team in ice time, either at even strength or overall. How many names on that list can you say that about?

Lindholm doesn't either, but he still plays a bit more than Rielly, and is a strong #2 in TOI for Anaheim(Rielly is 3rd for Toronto). TOI doesn't tell you everything, but his inclusion to the list almost seems a little arbitrary.

Babs uses the Rielly-Hainsey pairing against top-comp, and feeds Gardiner-Zaitsev the rest of the 5v5 minutes.