Playoff Analysis and Future Thoughts

[Celtic Note]

And Bill Armstrong is on the staff that Doug assembled. So anything done by Bill is due to Armstrong having him involved on the staff...

Doug kept him on. He didn't bring him in.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Doug kept him on. He didn't bring him in.

I don't understand your argument. The GM of a team is responsible for hiring the personnel for scouting and the draft. The buck stops with him. If the head scout were incompetent, the blame would lie with Doug Armstrong just as well.

If he were running a restaurant, he would be responsible for hiring the chef, but that doesn't mean he should go back in the kitchen and actually make the dishes. If that restaurant has bad food, yeah they'll fire the chef, but the manager of the restaurant is to blame.

Unless you're going out of your way to try and ignore Doug Armstrong's good moves, why pretend he isn't responsible for the draft results?

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't understand your argument. The GM of a team is responsible for hiring the personnel for scouting and the draft. The buck stops with him. If the head scout were incompetent, the blame would lie with Doug Armstrong just as well.

If he were running a restaurant, he would be responsible for hiring the chef, but that doesn't mean he should go back in the kitchen and actually make the dishes. If that restaurant has bad food, yeah they'll fire the chef, but the manager of the restaurant is to blame.

Unless you're going out of your way to try and ignore Doug Armstrong's good moves, why pretend he isn't responsible for the draft results?

Let's go with you restaurant analogy. Let's say you buy a restaurant. You hire a restaurant manager but there is already a good chef. The manager proceeds to screw everything else up besides the kitchen. The chef is in charge of all the cooks and keeps them in line. So that area goes smoothly. However, the manager is in charge of wait staff, advertising, customer relations and cleanliness of the restaurant. All those areas suffer but the restaurant still does ok because of the great food. It would be the best restaurant in the city if it had a friendly wait staff and clean bathrooms. Do you praise the manager for not firing the chef when he screwed up literally everything else? Or do you hire a more competent manager who will keep the same chef and same great food without all the other missteps?

I'd hope the answer is obvious. That is why in a discussion of Doug Armstrong, he doesn't get credit for Bill's domain. Another GM could come in and keep Bill doing what he does. That is not unique to Doug Armstrong. Instead we should discuss the things that Doug makes the final decisions on, and whether a different GM would do them better. I'm not saying Doug has screwed up literally everything else, but we have to weight the pros and cons of Doug vs replacement level GM. And replacement level GM would keep Bill doing his thing, so that is a wash.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I don't understand your argument. The GM of a team is responsible for hiring the personnel for scouting and the draft. The buck stops with him. If the head scout were incompetent, the blame would lie with Doug Armstrong just as well.

If he were running a restaurant, he would be responsible for hiring the chef, but that doesn't mean he should go back in the kitchen and actually make the dishes. If that restaurant has bad food, yeah they'll fire the chef, but the manager of the restaurant is to blame.

Unless you're going out of your way to try and ignore Doug Armstrong's good moves, why pretend he isn't responsible for the draft results?

What's he actually responsible for?

Armstrong isn't the cook. He isn't even the one who identified the potential talent in the cook and hired him for the position. He's just the guy that didn't fire a good cook that was already in place.

Armstrong deserves some small amount of credit for that, but at the same time it's not exactly something to hang his hat on.

 

[Ranksu]

I think D. Armstrong is the Waiter who has most annoying artificial smile and behind the back he bash the customers down.

 

[Celtic Note]

I don't understand your argument. The GM of a team is responsible for hiring the personnel for scouting and the draft. The buck stops with him. If the head scout were incompetent, the blame would lie with Doug Armstrong just as well.

If he were running a restaurant, he would be responsible for hiring the chef, but that doesn't mean he should go back in the kitchen and actually make the dishes. If that restaurant has bad food, yeah they'll fire the chef, but the manager of the restaurant is to blame.

Unless you're going out of your way to try and ignore Doug Armstrong's good moves, why pretend he isn't responsible for the draft results?

If hiring the scouting director gets the GM notoriety for draft picks, then Pleau deserves the most credit. He promoted Bill Armstrong to Director of Scouting. Doug kept a good director in Bill onboard after he took over. It can get some points for that.

Personally, I don't think GMs should get much acclaim for draft picks in systems where the Director makes the last call on the pick and hires his own scouts. We know this is the system the Blues have run since Pleau was in control during the Davidson years.

If the GM gets any credit, it should be for the decision to hire the talent or move on from them if they don't work out.

Let's put it another way so there is no misunderstanding as to whether this is about Doug. Poile should get some credit for the drafting success of defensemen and goalies in Nashville because he hired the Director of Scouting in Nashville. Chiarelli does not take blame for the drafting done before he got to Edmonton, because he didn't make moves that impacted the staff. That seems pretty fair to me.

 

[actionhank1786]

I'd not trade Allen nowhere, Elliott/Allen both are stud's and I bet its not wrong to say they are NHL best goaltender tandem now.

I'd be very shaky feeling if we'd ride next season Elliott/one of youngsters Husso/Binnington/Copley and Nilsson. Imagine if Elliott gets injured, we're totally screwed.

So trading Allen would be my last option.

Yeah, I love Elliott, but I think if we have the injuries we had last season, our team is screwed with an average backup goalie. We essentially have two starters, which really helped us when one went down, because the other stepped up. I don't know that the average backup is going to do that. I don't think we can afford to give up Allen, and bank on Elliott being able to stay healthy all season.

Considering how cheap both goalies are, and how well they do for us, I just don't see the need to trade them, considering what we get back likely won't offset the loss, and I don't see any definite goalie stepping in to fill the void Allen would leave.

 

[Dbrownss]

If hiring the scouting director gets the GM notoriety for draft picks, then Pleau deserves the most credit. He promoted Bill Armstrong to Director of Scouting. Doug kept a good director in Bill onboard after he took over. It can get some points for that.

Personally, I don't think GMs should get much acclaim for draft picks in systems where the Director makes the last call on the pick and hires his own scouts. We know this is the system the Blues have run since Pleau was in control during the Davidson years.

If the GM gets any credit, it should be for the decision to hire the talent or move on from them if they don't work out.

Let's put it another way so there is no misunderstanding as to whether this is about Doug. Poile should get some credit for the drafting success of defensemen and goalies in Nashville because he hired the Director of Scouting in Nashville. Chiarelli does not take blame for the drafting done before he got to Edmonton, because he didn't make moves that impacted the staff. That seems pretty fair to me.

Not attacking you on this, but does this apply to the draft picks that don't pan out or fall in line with a fans vision of the team? Army sure catches hell for the "safe" picks.

 

[DANOZ28]

wild fan / outside observer here; i really think you have a very good team imo the only thing i would do as the blues gm is add some speed to your lineup. just my one cent. goodluck next year.

 

[Ranksu]

Yeah, I love Elliott, but I think if we have the injuries we had last season, our team is screwed with an average backup goalie. We essentially have two starters, which really helped us when one went down, because the other stepped up. I don't know that the average backup is going to do that. I don't think we can afford to give up Allen, and bank on Elliott being able to stay healthy all season.

Considering how cheap both goalies are, and how well they do for us, I just don't see the need to trade them, considering what we get back likely won't offset the loss, and I don't see any definite goalie stepping in to fill the void Allen would leave.

You nail it. You got to be fool to trade Allen at this current state of Blues. Note, we might see after next year same kind of thing what Parayko did to Shattenkirk, make him expendable that way it don't hurt us.

I review Blues goaltender position very strechy. I just love what situation Blues GM have now, Binnington vs. Copley vs. Husso (vs. Opilka) and NHL level Allen vs. Elliott.
I just wanna see fair competitive fight and give young boys extra motive to push each other to better level. Corsi must be excited, also interesting to see what Corsi can do with Husso.

 

[Celtic Note]

Not attacking you on this, but does this apply to the draft picks that don't pan out or fall in line with a fans vision of the team? Army sure catches hell for the "safe" picks.

Since he doesn't seem to have anything to do with drafting, he shouldn't get flack for that. I certainly don't give it to him for it.

If the scouting team was pulling Carolina or Colombus levels of failure, then the GM is on the hook if he doesn't put a new director in place.

To me the GMs role in drafting is to analyze his scouting staff. He isn't holding the directors hand and signing off on every pick. If that were the case, then he would be the director of scouting.

 

[Renard]

Because every new player brought in isn't because of Armstrong or Hitchcock. This has been beaten to death but certain people will ignore it.

Did our new players wander in off the streets?

 

[BlueDream]

Did our new players wander in off the streets?

Judging by the quality of this post I'd say you just did.

 

[GoldenSeal]

The team should band together and pull a mutiny on Hitch.