Players upset @ NHLPA about timing of cap offer

[AH]

The NHLPA accepts a cap (probably in the 45-46 million range).
They toss in the 24% rollback.
Lose 2/3 of their members' pay for the year (almost $1 BILLION).
Start the season at a time when the owners gravy train (the playoffs) are just around the corner.

If this thing gets done (and I think it will), this is as close to a landslide victory for Bettman as it gets. The union has been broken, especially if Goodenow was undercut by Pronger, Igina, etc ...

The new CBA will feed the next one and the one after that. For 10 years of gain since 1994 and an unwillingness to re-negotiate since 1999, the NHLPA has screwed themselves for the next 20 years.

Nice going Bob, Ted, and Trevor.

 

[barnburner]

I honestly don't know if Goodenow made the call to accept the cap. With Roenick/Progner/Iginla in the mix now and especially reading into some of Roenick's comments regarding that their actions are not ment to undermine Goodenow - the players may have went around the bossman.

At this point, everything is speculation but might as well speculate while we wait.

I agree TS. Everything in Goodenow's history says that he would not have made this move. I think he would have stonewalled even thru a second lost season, if the players had not forced his hand.

 

[CarlRacki]

The problem is that both sides negotiating strategy's is to wait till the last minute then talk. Hopefully next time both sides will treat the start of the season as a deadline, and we can avoid all this. But as it stands, I expect this sort of prolonged work-stopage inevitable in negotiations between these 2 sides.

Dead on.
On positive note, it's almost certain that next time around both sides will have different leadership.

 

[marcel snapshot]

I can't blame them. I don't see how Goodenow can survive this; he's about to accept a cap AND has cost his players 3/4 of a season. Not only that, but he's having to toss in a 24% rollback, too.

You can blame Goodenow for not floating something like this last summer if you think that such a proposal would have moderated Bettman's position. Based on how Bettman responded to the 24% rollback offer (for 2 months his response was "Gee thanks players, I want that rollback along with everything else I've already asked for"), that wouldn't be a reasonable expectation. So if Goodenow throws out his bottom line (or something close to it -- which is what last night's proposal is) last summer, he'd have no room to move in the face of what likely would be months of pressure from Bettman and co. (and all the player critics). As it stands, Bettman's absurd response to the PA's Dec. proposal (the proposal sucks, but I'll take it along with everything else I want) got the players to basically negotiate against themselves. All they needed was a shred of movement from Bettman (no linkage still gives them a cap) to get them to go to their bottom line.

I think Goodenow was in a very tough place -- but it never should have gotten to the point where he and Bettman where empowered to play Liar's Poker with the game of hockey. Sure, it's the fault of their constituents for allowing it to happen, but it's mostly the fault of the two of them for not realizing how damaging their pointy-head charade of geek macho would be.

 

[shakes]

I honestly don't know if Goodenow made the call to accept the cap. With Roenick/Progner/Iginla in the mix now and especially reading into some of Roenick's comments regarding that their actions are not ment to undermine Goodenow - the players may have went around the bossman.

At this point, everything is speculation but might as well speculate while we wait.

Well according to most posters on this board, it was only the top % of the players that were driving the cap. Hasn't it been post numerous times that if given a vote the majority would accept the cap? You know.. the stars get richer at the expense of the pluggers and third line players? Hasn't it been said that Bob wasn't listening to the majority of his members in not accepting a cap? If that's the case and the majority of the union want a cap, why should BG be in fear of losing his job?

The exaggeration hypocrisy and hyperbole on this board are amazing.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Goodenow is supposed to do as the players say, so if the players as a whole "caved in" to the dread Cap then it really is not his direct fault. It just means he did a bad job representing the players' "bluff".

I don't know about him being fired, though whenever his contract expires it simply might not be renewed.

When the owners took linkage off the table, the NHLPA moved in response. A number of posters claimed players would play with a cap in the past.

If the players do not want a cap when it goes before them for a vote they can vote any proposed deal down.

 

[Ron C.]

If the players had any sense, they would shut up until this is finished. Anything they say now is going to do nothing more than weaken the negotiating position of the NHLPA.

I'm pro-owner, but if you are the NHLPA, why would you give in on the cap early on? Giving the owners the cap is a huge concession, one that should be given with the expectation of great returns. The only way to maximize the return was to make the owners hurt a bit and put their collective backs up against the wall, just as the NHLPA's backs are right now.

Early on???? The players and league are 10 feet from hitting the ground and they still haven't opened the parachute.

 

[SENSible1*]

If the players had any sense, they would shut up until this is finished. Anything they say now is going to do nothing more than weaken the negotiating position of the NHLPA.

I'm pro-owner, but if you are the NHLPA, why would you give in on the cap early on? Giving the owners the cap is a huge concession, one that should be given with the expectation of great returns. The only way to maximize the return was to make the owners hurt a bit and put their collective backs up against the wall, just as the NHLPA's backs are right now.

And if the PA had given in to the cap framework during the summer, the owners would have been in a better position/disposition to sweeten the pot and get far "greater returns" than they can after the damage this bluff has caused the league.

Terrible leadership from Goodenow. It will be a pleasure to see him shown the door.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

The NHLPA accepts a cap (probably in the 45-46 million range).
They toss in the 24% rollback.
Lose 2/3 of their members' pay for the year (almost $1 BILLION).
Start the season at a time when the owners gravy train (the playoffs) are just around the corner.

If this thing gets done (and I think it will), this is as close to a landslide victory for Bettman as it gets. The union has been broken, especially if Goodenow was undercut by Pronger, Igina, etc ...

The new CBA will feed the next one and the one after that. For 10 years of gain since 1994 and an unwillingness to re-negotiate since 1999, the NHLPA has screwed themselves for the next 20 years.

Nice going Bob, Ted, and Trevor.

...and Bill.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

I really want to see a reporter go up to McCabe and ask him if hes going to retire from the NHL or is he going to show himself up to be a liar.

"The bottom line is, if they want a hard [salary] cap, we'll sit out for the rest of our lives," McCable told the Toronto Star.

 

[barnburner]

Goodenow makes $3.25 MILLION per year :lol

The players were surprised by the 24% rollback and by OFFERING a cap

You have to feel for the players.They were sold a bill of goods and lost so much money they will never recover.The exec commitee led by Mr.Linden and Mr.Guerin plus Goodenow and Saskin have alot of explaining to do

Why should anybody feel for the players? They buried their heads in the sand, and blindly followed the highly paid inner circle of players and the highly paid Goodenow,both of which had their own best interests in mind, and waited until the train was headed over the cliff before speaking up. Not only that, they totally ignored the financial ills of the teams that are employing them, and were determined to keep their present financial situation no matter what it did to the league. They get no sympathy from me.
They better hope it's not too late. From this point on, the offers from the NHL will get drastically smaller and smaller.

 

[neelynugs]

Terrible leadership from Goodenow. It will be a pleasure to see him shown the door.

i dunno- i'm pro-owner for sure, but i doubt any other union leader would act differently. goodenow's successor will likely be just as stubborn as he is- goes with the territory of the job

 

[neelynugs]

"The bottom line is, if they want a hard [salary] cap, we'll sit out for the rest of our lives," McCable told the Toronto Star.

"we'll"
as mccabe turns around in anticipation of seeing an army, he notices that he's now standing by himself

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

If the PA would have accepted a $45m cap in September, no way in Hell would they have to be giving up 24% of existing contracts as well. Oh, and they wouldn't have foregone 75% of 2004/05.

I agree that you don't give it up easily, but I don't see how giving it up now stands them in greater stead than had they done it earlier. Granted, maybe earlier the owners wouldn't have given up linkage, but I suspect they would have for a cap.

If the PA would have conceded the salaries and cap last September, they'd be giving away much more than they are now. The owners wouldn't have stopped at where this is likely to end up.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

And if the PA had given in to the cap framework during the summer, the owners would have been in a better position/disposition to sweeten the pot and get far "greater returns" than they can after the damage this bluff has caused the league.

Terrible leadership from Goodenow. It will be a pleasure to see him shown the door.

Disagree. These situations in my experience need the kind of pressure both sides are now facing. Why would the owners have sweetened the pot so early in the game? They had no incentive to, as they were already prepared for a lockout situation.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Agreed. You can hammer Bettman regarding expansions, etc., though even there, looking long term intstead of short term, that still could pay off bit. But with these negotiations especially, how anyone can say that Bettman did a poor job for those he represents would be totally off base. Despite losing most if not of this season, if this goes where it seems to be going, the owners have to be thrilled with his leadership right now.

Come on, people.
You people have been harping about how bad the players' hand has been since the outset.
The monday-morning quarterbacking is more than a little disingenuous.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

i dunno- i'm pro-owner for sure, but i doubt any other union leader would act differently. goodenow's successor will likely be just as stubborn as he is- goes with the territory of the job

Exactly. He was given little incentive to give up his prize chip, the hard cap.

 

[Foppa_Rules]

How does Goodenow get hired and fired? How does that process work?

 

[Scoogs]

How does Goodenow get hired and fired? How does that process work?

His bosses are the players. If they don't want him representing them anymore, they can say "Bye bye".

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Come on, people.
You people have been harping about how bad the players' hand has been since the outset.
The monday-morning quarterbacking is more than a little disingenuous.

Just because you are dealt a bad hand does not mean that you can not play it as well as you are able . . . and no one is monday morning QB'ing, everyone here has been saying this for months now, and predicting just what happened. The NHLPA should have seen the hand they heald (8 owner veto) made their move on the Cap, linked to deep concessions on things like UFA, etc, five months ago when they held some cards, such as revenue from an entire Capped season for the owners. Instead they let the season run removing card after card from their hands and will end up with a worse deal than they could have gotten in August. And none of this is monday morning QB'ing, nearly everyone on this board has been saying this since last summer.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

How does Goodenow get hired and fired? How does that process work?

Probably by a vote of the union, but Goodenow won't allow a vote, so...

 

[X0ssbar]

I think its ludicrous to think either side is winning this fight. So the NHL gets a cap - that is great for them but at the same time the NHLPA has pushed the cap number up from 31 mil to probably around the 45 mil mark with no linkage. This is called compromise people and as it has been mentioned before - everybody loses short term during these labor disputes especially the fans.

This thing could still blow up but at this point, I am just thankfull this league and its players appear to be coming to their senses and are putting the breaks on before driving the NHL bus over the cliff.

Now its time for these guys to sign off on a deal and get to work on fixing the on-ice product.

 

[Trottier]

I'm pro-owner, but if you are the NHLPA, why would you give in on the cap early on? Giving the owners the cap is a huge concession, one that should be given with the expectation of great returns. The only way to maximize the return was to make the owners hurt a bit and put their collective backs up against the wall, just as the NHLPA's backs are right now.

Exactly. A hardcap is/was the rosetta stone in these entire negotiations. To suggest that one side should have conceded that point up front is to totally misunderstand the concept of negotiations.

Ultimately, a high stakes games, it appears and, as of this hour, perhaps one that Bettman has won. However, your's truly will hold off rush judgement until the final terms are reached (if, in fact, they ever are). For a hardcap at, say, $40 mil vs. one at, say, $50 mil are two different things, entirely.

I think its ludicrous to think either side is winning this fight. So the NHL gets a cap - that is great for them but at the same time the NHLPA has pushed the cap number up from 31 mil to probably around the 45 mil mark with no linkage. This is called compromise people...

Indeed, compromise. Apparently not in some folks vocabulary.

I guess fans being fans, we thirst for declaring winners and losers, as inappropriate as that may be in this case. To be sure, the NHL will likely walk away with significantly more gains in this deal. But they had a lot more to gain than the NHLPA to start with.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Probably by a vote of the union, but Goodenow won't allow it, so...

Reading the landscape with that unique skill that he brings to the table, and thinking that he now holds a strong position, Goodenow will likely try to hold out for more money and a salary increase.

 

[Steve L*]

If the PA would have conceded the salaries and cap last September, they'd be giving away much more than they are now. The owners wouldn't have stopped at where this is likely to end up.

I disagree, the owners would then risk the fans turning against them if the players offered a good deal and it was turned down.

If the players offered a cap that would gaurentee profits for the owners, why would they not want to start the season with it?