Players own League - funded by former NY mayor Rudy Giuliani?

[RedLightDistrict]

If this league does get off the ground, Adam sandler can thank New York's one true mayor by opening the inaugural game with his operaman sketch from the concert for 9/11. of course, we'd change it to a hockey format. can't find a link, tho, sorry

 

[Slats432]

A. It is a longshot.

B. It is easy to toss names around of guys that might be interested. I noticed that when there was talk about the WHL team in Kennewick being sold to local investors (I know one of the prinicples that they were talking about.) and my associate said...nope, never even discussed it.

C. If a guy was intelligent, he would have thought about it before the two owners of the WHA went and crucified the league's reputation. They had a decent vehicle for a launch and didn't take advantage of it. The WHA could have had success if run properly from the start.

 

[nyrmessier011]

IMO nothing gets done in the next two days unless the owners collapse a bit. The NHLPA isn't going to just strike a deal for the sake of getting a nomal off season back when they have Bain and Rudy (giuliani) stirring up idea and alternatives for the players to get the hell out of Bettmans league.

 

[CBJ goalie]

I'm usually an optimist but I don't see this idea working - investing $5B into a venture that would yield $2.1B (as per the NHL's #'s) - and that's in a league that's been around for years and years.
With the damage that's been done to the game of hockey, $2.1B in revenues may not be achieved again for a little while.

And something has to be said for tradition - do players really want to play for the Stanley Cup, or the IHA Bowl???

 

[WC Handy*]

IMO nothing gets done in the next two days unless the owners collapse a bit. The NHLPA isn't going to just strike a deal for the sake of getting a nomal off season back when they have Bain and Rudy (giuliani) stirring up idea and alternatives for the players to get the hell out of Bettmans league.

Bain's idea is the last thing the player's want. With one owner, the league could impose a cap without the permission of the players because each team would be a department within the same company.

 

[txomisc]

It says they've considered the plan, not orchestrated the plan. Seems like the investors came to the PA:



The only one with any link to the PA that's involved is Rich Winter, an agent. That's a far cry from Jeremy Roenick and PJ Stock getting $5 billion together to set up an NHLPA league.

Whether it was their idea or not does not change the fact that the article says the PA is involved.

 

[CGG]

Bain's idea is the last thing the player's want. With one owner, the league could impose a cap without the permission of the players because each team would be a department within the same company.

I agree, the players don't want this system. But it doesn't stop the players from organizing, entering into collective bargaining, and striking if they feel they're not getting enough cash. GM's budgets don't stop the UAW from striking.

 

[Chili]

Get back to me when they have secured a bunch of arena leases in major cities.

 

[nyrmessier011]

Bain's idea is the last thing the player's want. With one owner, the league could impose a cap without the permission of the players because each team would be a department within the same company.

I know that's why they wouldn't want it. But there are two arguments to your point. I think Bain would contract teams, something most players (minus the 150 worst in the NHL) would want. I think the NHL would draw more interest in the Bain league. Although a central office would run all 22-23-24 teams, I believe that with less teams and more talente offense per team than in todays game, the NHL comes back to life with the excitement of the 80s. It may mean a little hit in the NHL players pockets at first, but I think after 5-10 years the NHL will see more then $2 billion in revenues with a 24 team league.

This is all subjective of course to you believing that a 30 team NHL is the leagues biggest problem right now. I believe it is. The main reason I despise Gary Bettman is for expansion

 

[CGG]

Whether it was their idea or not does not change the fact that the article says the PA is involved.

Everyone in this thread has leapt to the conclusion that this is the players' doing, that they're trying to start up their own league to somehow screw the NHL, and everyone's all geared up to laugh at the players when this thing doesn't get off the ground thinking it will be the players' failure. That is simply not the case.

Involved can mean organizing the whole damn thing and actually working to make it become a reality. That's not the players, but that's what everyone is either believing or is trying to convince others is happening.

Involved can also mean someone came to the PA and gave them the 71-page business plan, and they read it.

 

[Schlep Rock]

I'm usually an optimist but I don't see this idea working - investing $5B into a venture that would yield $2.1B (as per the NHL's #'s) - and that's in a league that's been around for years and years.
With the damage that's been done to the game of hockey, $2.1B in revenues may not be achieved again for a little while.

And something has to be said for tradition - do players really want to play for the Stanley Cup, or the IHA Bowl???

FWIW... a company of this nature would sell for 2-2.5x revenue.

 

[SENSible1*]

IMO nothing gets done in the next two days unless the owners collapse a bit. The NHLPA isn't going to just strike a deal for the sake of getting a nomal off season back when they have Bain and Rudy (giuliani) stirring up idea and alternatives for the players to get the hell out of Bettmans league.

1) Bain is offering to buy the NHL, not set up a rival league. If the Bain deal was accepted the PA would be completely nuetered as they could set team budgets for their franchises with no fear of collusion charges. The NHL is leaking the Bain offers to show the PA what could lie behind door #2 if they don't smarten up.

Although an unlikely scenario, unless the labour dispute drags on and goes to the courts, it is at least plausible as Bain would be buying the rights to existing franchises and buildings.

2) The Rudy scenario is completely implausible even if the dispute drags on and ends up in the courts. As long as the NHL has a strangle hold on the facilities and branding any rival league will flounder.

This is a pathetic last second ploy which will be given all the consideration it deserves by the NHL...NONE.

The NHL may sweeten the pot over the next couple of days if it feels it can help ouster Goodenow and provide the basis for better relationships with the PA in their coming partnership. Any good will they show will have NOTHING to do with this "development".

 

[SENSible1*]

How in the hell does everyone assume this is the players' doing?

Nowhere in the article does it say the players are involved at all. It's not Bob Goodenow and Arturs Irbe out going door to door trying to raise the $5 billion to start an NHLPA league. It's a group of investors.

For the last time, IT'S NOT THE NHLPA ORGANIZING A LEAGUE. Get that through your heads. To think that Goodenow is using Rupert Murdoch and Rudy Guliani in some kind of scam / media ploy is absolutely absurd. Give your heads a shake.

Even the title of this thread is crap -- "Players Own League"? Nope. "Investors Trying To Set Up Another League In Which NHLPA Members Might One Day Play In Theoretically" is what the thread title should be.

If you can't read between the lines on this one, you aren't nearly as bright as I gave you credit for being.

 

[WC Handy*]

I know that's why they wouldn't want it. But there are two arguments to your point. I think Bain would contract teams, something most players (minus the 150 worst in the NHL) would want. I think the NHL would draw more interest in the Bain league. Although a central office would run all 22-23-24 teams, I believe that with less teams and more talente offense per team than in todays game, the NHL comes back to life with the excitement of the 80s. It may mean a little hit in the NHL players pockets at first, but I think after 5-10 years the NHL will see more then $2 billion in revenues with a 24 team league.

This is all subjective of course to you believing that a 30 team NHL is the leagues biggest problem right now. I believe it is. The main reason I despise Gary Bettman is for expansion

A 24 team league will still have fundamentally sound goaltenders with huge pads and teams will still play the trap or some other variation of a very defensive system. Those two things, not the number of teams, is what makes the current brand of hockey different than the 80's. Hockey coaches simply realized the same thing that has been realized in every other pro sport... that defense wins.

 

[oil slick]

I'll believe that people will put up 5 billion when I see it. It is a lot easier to talk about spending 5 billion than it is to actually put up that kind of cash. As with previouse leagues, there was much talk, but when it came time to actually pony up the dough, I've noticed the investors are noticably absent.

If I were the NHL, I would not spend much time worrying.

 

[Hoss]

Periods blah, 4 15 minute quarters

4 quarters means 1 extra intermission for Advertising, and could mean less interruptions during play for commercial breaks.

 

[dawgbone]

I know that's why they wouldn't want it. But there are two arguments to your point. I think Bain would contract teams, something most players (minus the 150 worst in the NHL) would want. I think the NHL would draw more interest in the Bain league. Although a central office would run all 22-23-24 teams, I believe that with less teams and more talente offense per team than in todays game, the NHL comes back to life with the excitement of the 80s. It may mean a little hit in the NHL players pockets at first, but I think after 5-10 years the NHL will see more then $2 billion in revenues with a 24 team league.

This is all subjective of course to you believing that a 30 team NHL is the leagues biggest problem right now. I believe it is. The main reason I despise Gary Bettman is for expansion

Think about this for a minute... do you really think the quality of the game will improve with less teams?

With better players on the ice (both offensively and defensively, and better goaltending and coaching) per team, how exactly are the free wheeling 80's supposed to return?

The players now are better than the ones from the 80's... of that there is no doubt. Better players does not mean more goals. A bigger gap between the best players in the league (and the worst ones), is what lead to the firewagon 80's hockey.

Back when the NHL had only 6 teams, I don't recall many 9-7 games then... less teams does not equal firewagon hockey, and it doesn't take much to figure that out.

When the very best players played against each other in the World Cup, Olympics and World Championships, there weren't a lot more goals scored... in fact, it was pretty comparable to what the NHL puts up.

 

[Digger12]

Power move? Hardly.

Last second bluster to eke out an extra minor concession or two from a REAL league? Very likely.

When you actually read the article, it looks like a hodge podge of things we've heard a hundred times before, combined with 'best case scenario' wishful thinking:

"help raise as much as 5 billion..."
"...might also act as an emissary..."
"...would potentially become an investor..."

Is there a hard fact ANYWHERE in there?

And then you have the usual suspects:

-Rich Winter as the quarterback? Gee, there's a new development.

-WHA founder Gary Davidson is one of the investors

-6 to 8 teams? Yeah, nice backup plan for 700 out of work hockey players.

-Winnipeg, Hamilton and Quebec City mentioned as possible sites...yes, I'm sure Rupert Murdoch and Fox see a TV bonanza there.

This is just the WHA reheated. Been there, laughed at that.

Like Saskin says, many groups have come to them offering 'alternative options'. Of note in the article is the fact that it doesn't say WHEN this idea was floated to the NHLPA. It's entirely possible this concept was brought before the PA months ago, but only brought out of mothballs now via press release to serve the PA's purposes.

 

[Chili]

...and another thing

Just suppose for a second that the multitude of stars necessary aligned and a new major hockey league was formed...what type of revenues would it generate short term? What type of salaries could the players expect (i.e. the fraction of the NHLPA who would be employed)?

P i e i n t h e s k y

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh ye of short memory. Lest we forget the ambitions of billionaire Vince McMahon had, who had a vision for a football league.
He had a national TV deal with a big TV network and invested a lot of money into a sport that is considered to be the most popular sport in the US. Ratings were high for the first couple of weeks. Then people started to realize 'tis not the NFL.
You may say it was a league full of never will-be's, and this new rebel hockey league will be different because it would consist of actual NHL superstars.
Here is some news for ya. Nobody gave a crap when these NHL superstars were playing NHL hockey for the past few years. Think when an alternative league starts up people will start filing into subpar arenas (because you know any rebel league will not be playing in an arena that houses an NHL team). If you think the TV ratings for the NHL was poor last season, imagine what the ratings would be like for an alternative hockey league that isn't the NHL. Is there a Red Wings or Maple Leafs or Avalanche or Flyers team to put in a primetime slot?

If ESPN wouldn't pick up the NHL for $60M and the best network TV deal the league can get is through a revenue sharing process, imagine the offers any rebel league will get in comparison. Let us observe the rise and fall (ok, there was never a rise, how about just the fall) of the WHA, part deux.

If there is anyone or any group out there foolish enough to invest $5B in such a league, I hope that they are prepared to take a hard hit in the wallet. They better watch some XFL games before thinking of such radical ideas.

 

[Mess]

How in the hell does everyone assume this is the players' doing?

Nowhere in the article does it say the players are involved at all. It's not Bob Goodenow and Arturs Irbe out going door to door trying to raise the $5 billion to start an NHLPA league. It's a group of investors.

For the last time, IT'S NOT THE NHLPA ORGANIZING A LEAGUE. Get that through your heads. To think that Goodenow is using Rupert Murdoch and Rudy Guliani in some kind of scam / media ploy is absolutely absurd. Give your heads a shake.

Even the title of this thread is crap -- "Players Own League"? Nope. "Investors Trying To Set Up Another League In Which NHLPA Members Might One Day Play In Theoretically" is what the thread title should be.

Fair enough ..

Lets take your thought process even further .. What if the big market teams are behind or a part of this venture ..

What if the Leafs, NYR, Philly and Detroit and 4 of the teams in communication with Rupert Murdoch and Rudy Giliani for example .. Rather then selling out to Bain what about formulating your own super league with 10 or 12 teams??

Think what kind of league that would be with 12 teams chosing from 700 players and prospects ..

What would be the cost of buying the rights to the NHL once all the other teams have folded and been lost if its just the Name the trophies and jerseys you are buying the rights to??

The NHL is going nowhere but down the drain at the moment .. Maybe its time to regroup cut the dead weight and move forward ..

Heck this group could emplyee a similar stategy to BAIN .. With the 5 bil .. buy the NHL .. but rather then buying the big market teams out .. they keep their franchise and money goes to buyout and fold the others and it gets reshaped into this new super league that really is the NHL but now with 12 really powerful teams and the best markets in NA ??

NO Salary Caps no no linkage .. HUGE Fox contract revenue contract for franchises to divide up like the NFL and investors receiving great returns on investment ..

You are right people are jumping to conclusions to quick .. $5 bil buys you just about whatever you may want ..

 

[SENSible1*]

GC2005,

When one looks at the original article from The Star the whole issue becomes clear. From your comments I'm assuming you've only looked at the second hand TSN article.
Here are some highlights.

Yet in recent weeks, the players' association, in concert with at least one prominent hockey agent, has considered a plan to start a rival league to the NHL

"This is about bargaining power," said Gordon Saint Denis, a sports investment banker with CIT Group Inc. in New York. "It's about the players saying, `We'll show the league we have another option.'"

Edmonton player agent Rich Winter, whose NHL clients include Ottawa Senators goalie Dominik Hasek, has quarterbacked efforts to plan the alternative league.

According to a source involved in the plan, the investors group, which also includes World Hockey Association founder Gary Davidson, has also laid out plans for where the six-to-eight team rival league might play

Notice the only direct quotes that can even remotely be considered positive are from Saskin and Winter.

Now let's look at the invlovement level of some of the prominent individuals listed.

If the National Hockey League and its players' union fail to reach an agreement on a new contract this summer, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and a leading Canadian diplomat may help the game's stars engineer a return to the ice.

Tentatively called the International Hockey Association, the league would rely on Giuliani's New York consulting company to help raise as much as $5 billion (U.S.) in seed money for the upstart league, according to a 71-page business plan reviewed by the Toronto Star and circulated to prospective Wall Street investors including Goldman Sachs & Co. and Allen & Co.

Giuliani's only link is that the authors of the proposal chose his firm as the POTENTIAL frontman IF they ever get around to doing anything about this.
Rudy has NO personal involvement.

Giuliani might also act as an emissary to Australian media baron Rupert Murdoch, whose Fox television empire would potentially become an investor and broadcast games, a source said

An unnamed source--(read: Winter talking out of his ass) throws out two prominent names with no corroboration to make it appear this has validity.

Does the article have ANY quotes from Murdoch, Giuliani, Guilaini's firm or a spokesperson for any of the above?????

A discerning reader would note the absence.

A discerning reader would also note the presence of Gary Davidson of WHA infamy and understand that this is simply the same horse painted a different colour by the NHLPA which will end up with exactly the same results.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE...MOVE ALONG.

 

[Digger12]

Lets take your thought process even further

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen you write that, I could outbid Bain.

 

[Larionov]

It's well known that Rich Winter is a vocal hardliner amongst the agents, and is no doubt unhappy with the shape of the deal that is emerging. Gee, what a coincidence that he would be behind this story! As a last minute Hail Mary, however, this one is a wobbler that goes about ten yards in the air before falling incomplete.

 

[jamiebez]

This is the funniest thread I've read since Bucky's WHA tourney thread!

Rupert Murdoch investing $5B! FOX telecasting NHL games on Saturday in prime-time! The NHLPA is behind it all! The Leafs and Rangers are going to secede from the NHL! Giuliani is going to run the whole league!
Seriously, if I wrote a story like this and posted it without a source, I'd be laughed off this forum.

Even the people who are coming up with barely-plausible, semi-intelligent possibilities based on this theory are making enormous conspiracy theory-like leaps of logic.

Still, keep up the posts, though! This is hilarious!!!