Player Discussion: Drew Doughty Thread

TruKingFan

Two-Time Cup Winner
Aug 16, 2004
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Doughty can want to win "cups" all he wants and if he doesn't like his chances with the Kings with the team they have now or years from now then let him try to do it somewhere else. I guarantee it's not tat cut and dried either. I'm all about improving the team and rebuilding (or retooling) into a contender but the notion that Doughty's decision to stay or not is solely predicated upon his "chances" to win "cups" would just be ridiculous.
 

redcard

System Poster
Mar 12, 2007
7,204
5,564
Yes, it works both ways, that is my point - we're long shots regardless. And that's not a pessimistic view based on our current outlook, its simply an acknowledgement on how difficult it is to build a cup winner. 4 teams have won in 8 years. Meaning if you go back to the summer of 2008 there were 26 GMs trying to put together a 2 year, 3 year, 5 year or 10 year plan to win a cup and they all failed.

The odds are against Luc and Blake, the odds are against Doughty and Kopitar in LA or elsewhere getting another cup, and the odds are against us as fans of seeing another in the next 10 years.

But there's a notion on these boards that we can't win unless we trade Doughty and Kopitar and we're therefore mailing it in if we don't trade them...and that is unequivocally false. As you said, the Pens were going nowhere prior to the trades you listed and the coaching change. There were "Should the Pens trade Malkin?" threads for years. But they didn't need a treasure cove of assets to make those deals. Kapanen and a first, Sutter, Perron.....honestly underwhelming compared to what they got back. Every team in the league has that kind of value.....the hard part is making the right trades, drafting the right 3rd rounders, and getting lucky. That's what separates the 4 from the 26.

I'm not interested in seeing Doughty or Kopitar traded, not because of some inability to let go of 2012 & 2014, not because of some misguided Lombardian Loyalty, but because we have Hall of Famers in the prime of their careers fully capable of winning championships if the right pieces and right amount of luck comes our way.

We traded Luc, we traded Blake, we traded Gretzky. We won 0 cups with the players they returned.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,239
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Just stay the course. You ignore the sweep and look at the direction our team is going. Our GM is no where near in danger of being fired because our team is in a better place and looks like it will continue to improve.

We're in a rather enviable position.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,320
11,113
Just stay the course. You ignore the sweep and look at the direction our team is going. Our GM is no where near in danger of being fired because our team is in a better place and looks like it will continue to improve.

We're in a rather enviable position.
I will ask a simple question. Why?
 
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Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Los Angeles
Go on the main board and start a poll asking if the Kings are in an enviable position. Not many will agree with you. You're looking at things through rose colored glasses.

Like the board's opinion on our team matters.

Look at the Trade boards and see how many core players we have that the other aspiring contender teams would empty their farms for. We even have some highly coveted prospects now. They wish they had our building blocks.

BTW, I don't wear glasses. :D
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,239
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I will ask a simple question. Why?

We have two viable paths: we can retool and perhaps contend again. The number of teams where a retool to reach contention are very few. Or we could rebuild. The amount of futures we would receive would be insane. If we traded out our entire core of 25+ and 30+ players, the number of firsts and blue chippers we would get back would be insane.

Now look at the other cap teams in the league and compare (and don't even bother with most of the budget teams). Our position going forward is pretty good. We need work but other teams need entire overhauls, blow ups or no one has any idea how to fix those teams.
 

johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
19,402
14,502
Like the board's opinion on our team matters.

Look at the Trade boards and see how many core players we have that the other aspiring contender teams would empty their farms for. We even have some highly coveted prospects now. They wish they had our building blocks.

BTW, I don't wear glasses. :D
Technically none of our opinions matter. If other fanbases don't think you're in an enviable position than you probably aren't. I bet lots of other fanbases would think Winnipeg is in an enviable position going forward.

Yes we enviable pieces, but every team has enviable pieces. Our prospect depth is below average.

The Kings are average, and the position the franchise is in is also average.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,239
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Los Angeles
Technically none of our opinions matter. If other fanbases don't think you're in an enviable position than you probably aren't. I bet lots of other fanbases would think Winnipeg is in an enviable position going forward.

Yes we enviable pieces, but every team has enviable pieces. Our prospect depth is below average.

The Kings are average, and the position the franchise is in is also average.

100% disagree. It's not just pieces but what roles they're in. Other fans' opinions don't matter because they don't know our team.

If you want to talk about this year's result, it was average. But unlike most average teams, they don't have the pieces in the core roles where a retool can get you to the next level.

Don't be discouraged just because we got swept in the first round. The number of times Chicago got beat bad in the first round is at least as many times as they won the Cup. And even in times they won the Cup, they almost got beat in the first round. But they kept their core and retooled around it. Lombardi unfortunately failed to retool - he's like our Tallon. Blake hopefully is our Bowman, finding ways to add players for cheap. So far he's added quite a few.

Look at Pittsburgh, it took them over five years to retool. But they kept their core and added players around them. Now they are back to back champs.
 

The Butcher

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I think the Vegas knights proved to everyone in the league that you can win and contend with a bunch of throwaways and inexperience as long as you can build an identity and play together as a team. As of this moment, I'm not sure putting doughty or kopi on that team even moves their needle because they play so well as a unit.

THAT is what won the kings championships and that's what will win going forward.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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100% disagree. It's not just pieces but what roles they're in. Other fans' opinions don't matter because they don't know our team.

If you want to talk about this year's result, it was average. But unlike most average teams, they don't have the pieces in the core roles where a retool can get you to the next level.

Don't be discouraged just because we got swept in the first round. The number of times Chicago got beat bad in the first round is at least as many times as they won the Cup. And even in times they won the Cup, they almost got beat in the first round. But they kept their core and retooled around it. Lombardi unfortunately failed to retool - he's like our Tallon. Blake hopefully is our Bowman, finding ways to add players for cheap. So far he's added quite a few.

Look at Pittsburgh, it took them over five years to retool. But they kept their core and added players around them. Now they are back to back champs.

I'm with you on the retool and pretty much everything else but something K17 accurately points out is we don't necessarily have the same window as those examples as our core is older at this point.

It's do-able in my eyes, but it does take some hope that guys keep performing, and beyond a couple of years out, it takes more than hope.
 

kenito7

Registered User
May 27, 2014
235
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California
I think the Vegas knights proved to everyone in the league that you can win and contend with a bunch of throwaways and inexperience as long as you can build an identity and play together as a team. As of this moment, I'm not sure putting doughty or kopi on that team even moves their needle because they play so well as a unit.

THAT is what won the kings championships and that's what will win going forward.
So far they have proved to be a good first year team and that's it.
Winning one series against the Kings and one game against the Sharks does not make them a Cup contender. Lets see how it plays out before making them the model for teams to follow. Every year there are teams that are one year wonders who fail to make the playoffs the next year. Last year the Oilers fell just one game short of the WCF and this year they missed the playoffs by 17 points.
 

kenito7

Registered User
May 27, 2014
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100% disagree. It's not just pieces but what roles they're in. Other fans' opinions don't matter because they don't know our team.

If you want to talk about this year's result, it was average. But unlike most average teams, they don't have the pieces in the core roles where a retool can get you to the next level.

Don't be discouraged just because we got swept in the first round. The number of times Chicago got beat bad in the first round is at least as many times as they won the Cup. And even in times they won the Cup, they almost got beat in the first round. But they kept their core and retooled around it. Lombardi unfortunately failed to retool - he's like our Tallon. Blake hopefully is our Bowman, finding ways to add players for cheap. So far he's added quite a few.

Look at Pittsburgh, it took them over five years to retool. But they kept their core and added players around them. Now they are back to back champs.
Chicago retooled while still making the playoffs and winning cups. The Kings have won one playoff game in two playoff appearance in 4 years.
What other team besides Pittsburg has won the cup with the same core 5 years apart? There are more examples of teams that have stuck with there core and never win a cup.
I know the Kings have no intention of blowing it up and starting over but they could at least be more aggressive in there pursuit of the next SC
 
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KingsFan7824

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Dec 4, 2003
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Chicago retooled while still making the playoffs and winning cups. The Kings have won one playoff game in two playoff appearance in 4 years.
What other team besides Pittsburg has won the cup with the same core 5 years apart? There are more examples of teams that have stuck with there core and never win a cup.
I know the Kings have no intention of blowing it up and starting over but they could at least be more aggressive in there pursuit of the next SC

Both Chicago and Pittsburgh got the jump on the Kings winning the Cup. The Pens won with Malkin on his ELC, and the Hawks won with both Kane and Toews on theirs. Both teams got to at least the 3rd round with all 4 on their ELC's. Kopitar and Doughty were already on their 2nd contracts by 2012. They both even had higher cap hits than both Kane and Toews on their 2nd contracts. Pit and Chi just had more time to re-tool. Plus neither team had a Richards or Voynov happen, and losing those two for nothing will always be a gigantic part of why the Kings haven't been able to sustain things. Although Pit managed to win without Letang.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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Chicago retooled while still making the playoffs and winning cups. The Kings have won one playoff game in two playoff appearance in 4 years.
What other team besides Pittsburg has won the cup with the same core 5 years apart? There are more examples of teams that have stuck with there core and never win a cup.
I know the Kings have no intention of blowing it up and starting over but they could at least be more aggressive in there pursuit of the next SC


You can complain about a lot of things with the current team and 'being aggressive' in pursuit of an SC isn't one of them. Frankly, it's that pursuit that has us where we are.
 

kenito7

Registered User
May 27, 2014
235
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California
You can complain about a lot of things with the current team and 'being aggressive' in pursuit of an SC isn't one of them. Frankly, it's that pursuit that has us where we are.
Ok not clear what I meant. I would like the Kings to instead of trading draft picks for players they will not be able to sign is to trade for draft picks and trade up in the draft to try an get more
high end scoring talent. The Kings have had very few top 6 forwards or top 4 defenseman in there system for a long while.
 
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The Butcher

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So far they have proved to be a good first year team and that's it.
Winning one series against the Kings and one game against the Sharks does not make them a Cup contender. Lets see how it plays out before making them the model for teams to follow. Every year there are teams that are one year wonders who fail to make the playoffs the next year. Last year the Oilers fell just one game short of the WCF and this year they missed the playoffs by 17 points.

I think most analysts and oddsmakers are in agreement that the knights are serious contenders for the 2018 season along with a handful of other teams.

Point stands with any of the top teams, they have an identity and play well as a team.
 
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KingsFan7824

Registered User
Dec 4, 2003
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Ok not clear what I meant. I would like the Kings to instead of trading draft picks for players they will not be able to sign is to trade for draft picks and trade up in the draft to try an get more
high end scoring talent. The Kings have had very few top 6 forwards or top 4 defenseman in there system for a long while.

The only way they're getting higher picks is to suck enough or miss the playoffs and win the lottery.
 

SlimCharles

Kings & Sabres
Dec 7, 2011
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I think the Vegas knights proved to everyone in the league that you can win and contend with a bunch of throwaways and inexperience as long as you can build an identity and play together as a team. As of this moment, I'm not sure putting doughty or kopi on that team even moves their needle because they play so well as a unit.

THAT is what won the kings championships and that's what will win going forward.
I really don't like calling Vegas' roster is a bunch of "throwaways". More like, "A roster of quality players that teams were forced to give up." You might respond by saying, "Forced? They picked who they wanted to expose..." True, but this is a lot different than expansion drafts of the past. Just look at Minnesota's first roster, or Columbus'. Gerald Gallant knew exactly what to do also. The combo of that new talent with chips on their shoulder plus a great coach equates to their success. Also, opportunity and chances they never got before. Look what William Karlsson did. Huge credit to Gallant again for recognizing where to put these guys and to give them all a chance.
 
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The Butcher

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I really don't like calling Vegas' roster is a bunch of "throwaways". More like, "A roster of quality players that teams were forced to give up." You might respond by saying, "Forced? They picked who they wanted to expose..." True, but this is a lot different than expansion drafts of the past. Just look at Minnesota's first roster, or Columbus'. Gerald Gallant knew exactly what to do also. The combo of that new talent with chips on their shoulder plus a great coach equates to their success. Also, opportunity and chances they never got before. Look what William Karlsson did. Huge credit to Gallant again for recognizing where to put these guys and to give them all a chance.
You're right. It's a poor choice of words. My point, again, is that they are winning without much star power beyond Fleury.
 

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