GDT: Pittsburgh Penguins @ Detroit Red Wings

[Winger98]

Still, given the way the cap is rising, not sure I'd be in a hurry to trade him, even with his injury history.

I'd shop Kessell first.

In a hurry? No, but I think he'd bring back more than Kessel and they already know they can be successful without him. Also, if we're talking about teams stepping out of the mold and doing something radically different from norms, that would be moving Letang.

people forget how awful the penguins looked in the majority of their playoff games last year. I don't think this pens team looks much different than the one we saw in last year's playoffs. the difference is they are not getting the goaltending to bail them out this season. if not for good goaltending and incredible puck luck I doubt they get out of the first round last year

They need letang to return to #1 dman form or trade for one.

Letang's never been a Norris caliber D, though. He's on the wrong side of 30, he's had some pretty serious injury issues, I'm not sure what he can return to at this point. And while Pittsburg definitely got some bounces last year they still won it all. At some point they deserve credit for that, and they did it without Letang.

I don't think it would be crazy if they turned around and dealt Letang, Hornquist, maybe Cole this year for futures and then turned around this summer and went after Carlson, De Haan, Green, a forward, etc. With some more luck they could revamp their team quite a bit while pulling in a bunch of pieces to start fortifying for their future.

 

[Henkka]

It's not that a team should go from 100% loading up to 100% scorched earth. It's that there are a zillion steps in between, with lots of room for creativity, and most of what Detroit has done has been very uninspiring and has yielded mostly poor results.

There isn't. Only way is to get rid of those 10M contracts for their Star players and replace them with new star plyers with cheaper ELCs or cheaper 2nd contracts.

Did they have that kind of player on the system? NO. Nobody has had. Or does anyone trade their own cheaper contract young stars for Toews or Kane? Absolutely not. There's no market, because it would be lunatic trade from the other side.

Those millions will eat the CAP ADVANTAGE, which they did have when both Kane and Toews were only with 6M pricetag. Or the first Cup for Hawks did come with Toews having last year of bargain-ELC. Prime-Keith with 5.5M etc.. But everyone has realized their value (including Seabrook, Saad and Crawford), and they wanted to keep the band together. The depth behind them is just too weak and there's no cap space to make the contending run any longer.

Window is closed for TOP contending, but they will stay as a good team. Just like Wings from 2009-10 to last days of Babcock.

We were at our best when Zetterberg was with 2.65M pricetag and Franzen was scoring 50-goal playoff pace with riduculous 942k contract. Of course you are strong then, every possible "7M Hossa" will fit on the cap. But not anymore, when those own guys will get their market-value contracts. Even if you keep Hossa at market value and let Franzen go, the same problem exists. Too many of star players are market valued, and you drop from TOP CONTENDING to a good team level.

This same spiral happens in every contender, more or less. And any GM hasn't been smart enough to operate in long run. Time and success will drop every contender from top. And league will want it to go exactly this way.

***

One thing why I hate the salary cap, is that TOP teams who draft their star core with their own drafting skill, are not able to keep it together. We were able to keep the band together on the era before the cap, because we had the money and there was no restrictions.

Imo, top teams who will draft well should be able to keep their own drafted stars, and not be punished about their own greatness to be able to draft that level of guys.

Salary cap should have some kind of adjustment, that you could put 2 players outside the cap, if they are drafted on your own and outside the 1st round. If you find a 7M player outside the 1st round, you will get a bigger cap advantage than others, who would put only 3-4 million players outside the cap. Something like that, a lottery team can't put 12.5M McDavid outside the cap, but Red Wings would have been able to put both Zetterberg and Datsyuk outside the cap. That would have been superior situation and EARNED ADVANTAGE of superb drafting at lower rounds.

 

[TheOtherOne]

There isn't. Only way is to get rid of those 10M contracts for their Star players and replace them with new star plyers with cheaper ELCs or cheaper 2nd contracts.

Did they have that kind of player on the system? NO. Nobody has had. Or does anyone trade their own cheaper contract young stars for Toews or Kane? Absolutely not. There's no market, because it would be lunatic trade from the other side.

Those millions will eat the CAP ADVANTAGE, which they did have when both Kane and Toews were only with 6M pricetag. Or the first Cup for Hawks did come with Toews having last year of bargain-ELC. Prime-Keith with 5.5M etc.. But everyone has realized their value (including Seabrook, Saad and Crawford), and they wanted to keep the band together. The depth behind them is just too weak and there's no cap space to make the contending run any longer.

Window is closed for TOP contending, but they will stay as a good team. Just like Wings from 2009-10 to last days of Babcock.

We were at our best when Zetterberg was with 2.65M pricetag and Franzen was scoring 50-goal playoff pace with riduculous 942k contract. Of course you are strong then, every possible "7M Hossa" will fit on the cap. But not anymore, when those own guys will get their market-value contracts. Even if you keep Hossa at market value and let Franzen go, the same problem exists. Too many of star players are market valued, and you drop from TOP CONTENDING to a good team level.

This same spiral happens in every contender, more or less. And any GM hasn't been smart enough to operate in long run. Time and success will drop every contender from top. And league will want it to go exactly this way.

***

One thing why I hate the salary cap, is that TOP teams who draft their star core with their own drafting skill, are not able to keep it together. We were able to keep the band together on the era before the cap, because we had the money and there was no restrictions.

Imo, top teams who will draft well should be able to keep their own drafted stars, and not be punished about their own greatness to be able to draft that level of guys.

Salary cap should have some kind of adjustment, that you could put 2 players outside the cap, if they are drafted on your own and outside the 1st round. If you find a 7M player outside the 1st round, you will get a bigger cap advantage than others, who would put only 3-4 million players outside the cap. Something like that, a lottery team can't put 12.5M McDavid outside the cap, but Red Wings would have been able to put both Zetterberg and Datsyuk outside the cap. That would have been superior situation and EARNED ADVANTAGE of superb drafting at lower rounds.

Interesting points. What if you got an inherent advantage for all home grown players? Maybe only 80% of a player's salary counts towards the cap if the player is playing for his first NHL team. I think I'd be on board with something like that.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not on board with any exceptions to the cap. Suck it up, manage it better, and make harder choices if you don't want to get bogged down with several long term, high cap deals.

 

[Flowah]

One thing why I hate the salary cap, is that TOP teams who draft their star core with their own drafting skill, are not able to keep it together. We were able to keep the band together on the era before the cap, because we had the money and there was no restrictions.
Imo, top teams who will draft well should be able to keep their own drafted stars, and not be punished about their own greatness to be able to draft that level of guys.

The current system rewards good drafting better than a non-cap system. In a non-cap system, you don't need to draft well. You can just buy players. In a cap system you must keep draft well and keep drafting well or you'll fail. No team lets their stars get away these days, unless for a comparable player coming back. Too valuable.

I could see this as a modified cap system though, if you want to get into letting teams draft and keep players easier. You might just separate drafted players from the cap system. Lower the cap significantly and then any trades or free agent signings or waiver pickups count against the cap, but any drafted players that haven't left your team are exempt. You have to lower the cap since you can exempt so many players from it otherwise the original problem that brought the cap, rich teams buying players that poor teams can't afford, will come back.

The problem I see with this off the bat is that it might drive down player contracts. A player drafted by the Canes operates with a team that only spends so much. If he wants more, he can go somewhere else, but that team has to make that player a huge chunk of their available cap. Maybe too much. So that player has to take a smaller contract with the team that drafted him. Or maybe teams will go the opposite route, depending on how much the cap is shrunk. Save 70% of their cap to bid on star free agents, count on their drafting to find the supporting players that are significantly easier to find. Who knows. Could be interesting.

 

[Redder Winger]

In a hurry? No, but I think he'd bring back more than Kessel and they already know they can be successful without him. Also, if we're talking about teams stepping out of the mold and doing something radically different from norms, that would be moving Letang.

I start with this:
Who is your core:
Crosby
Malkin
----
Letang
---
Kessell

If the Penguins are going to sell, I probably wouldn't even trade Kessell or Letang.
Hornqvist
Hagelin.
Cole.
Hunwick.
Dumoulin.

 

[waltdetroit]

Salary cap should have some kind of adjustment, that you could put 2 players outside the cap, if they are drafted on your own and outside the 1st round. If you find a 7M player outside the 1st round, you will get a bigger cap advantage than others, who would put only 3-4 million players outside the cap. Something like that, a lottery team can't put 12.5M McDavid outside the cap, but Red Wings would have been able to put both Zetterberg and Datsyuk outside the cap. That would have been superior situation and EARNED ADVANTAGE of superb drafting at lower rounds.

I like this idea - maybe keep $250k-$500k per year a drafted player is up in the bigs off of the cap. But the players union & players may want more freedom of movement which the cap was meant to do also.

 

[Red Stanley]

There isn't. Only way is to get rid of those 10M contracts for their Star players and replace them with new star plyers with cheaper ELCs or cheaper 2nd contracts.

Did they have that kind of player on the system? NO. Nobody has had. Or does anyone trade their own cheaper contract young stars for Toews or Kane? Absolutely not. There's no market, because it would be lunatic trade from the other side.

Those millions will eat the CAP ADVANTAGE, which they did have when both Kane and Toews were only with 6M pricetag. Or the first Cup for Hawks did come with Toews having last year of bargain-ELC. Prime-Keith with 5.5M etc.. But everyone has realized their value (including Seabrook, Saad and Crawford), and they wanted to keep the band together. The depth behind them is just too weak and there's no cap space to make the contending run any longer.

Window is closed for TOP contending, but they will stay as a good team. Just like Wings from 2009-10 to last days of Babcock.

We were at our best when Zetterberg was with 2.65M pricetag and Franzen was scoring 50-goal playoff pace with riduculous 942k contract. Of course you are strong then, every possible "7M Hossa" will fit on the cap. But not anymore, when those own guys will get their market-value contracts. Even if you keep Hossa at market value and let Franzen go, the same problem exists. Too many of star players are market valued, and you drop from TOP CONTENDING to a good team level.

This same spiral happens in every contender, more or less. And any GM hasn't been smart enough to operate in long run. Time and success will drop every contender from top. And league will want it to go exactly this way.

***

One thing why I hate the salary cap, is that TOP teams who draft their star core with their own drafting skill, are not able to keep it together. We were able to keep the band together on the era before the cap, because we had the money and there was no restrictions.

Imo, top teams who will draft well should be able to keep their own drafted stars, and not be punished about their own greatness to be able to draft that level of guys.

Salary cap should have some kind of adjustment, that you could put 2 players outside the cap, if they are drafted on your own and outside the 1st round. If you find a 7M player outside the 1st round, you will get a bigger cap advantage than others, who would put only 3-4 million players outside the cap. Something like that, a lottery team can't put 12.5M McDavid outside the cap, but Red Wings would have been able to put both Zetterberg and Datsyuk outside the cap. That would have been superior situation and EARNED ADVANTAGE of superb drafting at lower rounds.

I actually like that idea a lot. Maybe not place them completely outside the cap, though.