Pittsburgh Media Thread - Still the Worst

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by MtlPenFan, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. MtlPenFan

    MtlPenFan Registered User

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    He doesn't know. He actually doesn't know anything.

    Imagine wanting to fire a coach because he didn't play Daniel Sprong when about a dozen other things were responsible for losing in the 2nd round.
     
  2. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    Imagine that I never said fire him after this season or next, imagine that I said you can't allow that to happen without making changes to the assistants this year because there's a clear problem.

    Imagine that.

    Now stop ****ing putting words in my mouth that I said fire him right now.

    I never said fire him right now. Good ****ing lord, stop being dense.
     
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  3. MtlPenFan

    MtlPenFan Registered User

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    "Clear problem"
     
  4. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    I’d suggest reading Custance’s book where he interviews Sullivan. Dude comes off as a genius.
     
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  5. MtlPenFan

    MtlPenFan Registered User

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    But he didn't start Daniel Sprong, which is like starting each game with a 1-0 lead.
     
  6. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Daniel Sprong. If that is what you think people had a problem with, in terms to Sullivan and his coaching this past season, then I totally get why you are annoyed.

    Because you're missing it altogether.
     
  7. Honour Over Glory

    Honour Over Glory Lets Go Pens!

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    So did Bylsma, from what I can remember.

    The adoration of Dan Bylsma on this board was even more insane than Sullivan's adoration right now.

    Shuffle his assistant coaches, the guy needs a buffer to do his thing because he clearly needs it after how last season went down. Also it's easy to wax poetic philosophy on coaching and then its another thing to apply it.
     
  8. Crafton

    Crafton Liver-Eating Johnson

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    Thanks for the recommendation. Was able to read most of the chapter on Sullivan and Torts via the Amazon Look Inside feature. pretty illuminating.
     
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  9. SouthGeorge

    SouthGeorge Registered User

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    Isn't part of the coaches job managing different personalities? 90+ points he better figure out how to make it work. Plus, when they were winning we never heard anything about Kessel besides being a great teammate. Kind of weak to blame him when you finally lose. I wish he'd focus on the real issue and put that much energy into Letang.
     
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  10. Shady Machine

    Shady Machine Registered User

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    Comparing Sully to Bylsma is pretty absurd or, at the very least, really premature.
     
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  11. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    No, Bylsma came across as a know it all.

    Sullivan came across as a coach who wants buy in, but understands the complexity of egos and the fact he is lucky to be where he is.
     
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  12. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 Kunitz Was There

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    Wait, are people actually comparing Bylsma and Sullivan? Like for real? They're really not comparable outside of the fact that they both won cups with the Penguins :laugh:

    Sullivan is a much better tactical coach than Bylsma, is much more willing to make changes when things don't work and is much more willing to play youth than Bylsma ever was. Bylsma has an absurdly long list of issues, the issues with Sullivan are pretty much solely that he doesn't like specific players for some reason. Sullivan has a really long way to go to be anywhere close to as bad as Bylsma was, he'll have to do a lot more bad than what he has done. This isn't even about winning, either, Sullivan is just a much better coach.

    I can't think of a single area where I think Bylsma is a better coach than Sullivan. Maybe he's nicer? But that's really about it.
     
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  13. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    Yeah, the combination of that read, his general demeanor during 2017 and the way he got that defense to win a cup, and his letter to the market this year identifies to me that he is a hell of a coach.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  14. Pens x

    Pens x Registered User

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    And then the 2017-2018 season happened and poked a hole in your theory
     
  15. Tasty Biscuits

    Tasty Biscuits with fancy sauce

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    Eh, that's a fairly lazy narrative as far as I'm concerned. Honestly, you get the same Murs from last year and Letang plays with a semblance of intelligence, and I don't see how we're not in the finals again.

    The regular season was always going to be up and down after going back-to-back. No real concern there.
     
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  16. DegenX

    DegenX ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Maybe skim less? The comparison is about warning signs being ignored and lessons learned, not about who is a better coach.
     
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  17. MtlPenFan

    MtlPenFan Registered User

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    Ah yes, once again you don't go into specifics, just "OMG Sully is so stubborn what an idiot!"
     
  18. MtlPenFan

    MtlPenFan Registered User

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    "Not winning 3 in a row, something that hasn't been accomplished in nearly 40 years even without a salary cap proves your theory wrong lol."
     
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  19. Peat

    Peat Registered User

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    I'm reading a lot less about warning signs and a lot more about how he actively sucks already.

    I'm sure someone will tell me to check my reading comprehension. Personally I think some people need to read back what they write and realise what it sounds like.
     
  20. Pens x

    Pens x Registered User

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    He was amazing in 2016 and 2017, but he was piss poor this season. The Sprong stuff, Cole issues, his lineup decisions, stubbornly playing Letang way too many minutes every game and now this Kessel mess, if true.

    He had a lot of warts this season for a guy that was flawless in his last 2 seasons.
     
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  21. Peat

    Peat Registered User

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    He wasn't flawless. He made plenty of mistakes - continuing to try and force Bonino/Kessel, handing out PP1 time to Letang that should have gone to Schultz, taking a couple of games to figure out Ottawa, insistence that Kunitz still had a top 6 role in 16-17. All coaches make lots of mistakes.

    Frankly the main difference between this year and last was goaltending and injuries. He wasn't flawless then, he isn't piss poor now.
     
  22. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    Is it Sullivan alone who has given up/has issues with Sprong?

    That whole situation feels like Simon Despres all over again.
     
  23. DegenX

    DegenX ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Right. I'm reading posts where some are saying, hey, HCMS seems to be having beef with certain players. This could be an issue going forward. I'm reading posts where others are tying that into his seeming favoritism of a certain type of player, and seeing it as a red flag. I'm reading posts where folks are bring up some other things that might be an issue going forward.

    I'm not reading anyone saying he sucks and should be fired right now ... except from some posters who are resorting to hyperbole in response to some carefully thought out criticisms. And these same folks are the ones who complain often, and ironically, I'm sure, about how negative the board is. So when hyperbole and sarcasm is met with yet another measured response, they resort to something about how we should just be thankful. Which implies that discussing things that might be improved so the team continues to be successful is some sort of transgression. Because apparently we're not supposed to discuss those sorts of things on a message board.

    I agree, people should read back what they write. I think people should stop skimming posts and getting all righteous when they've only half read something. I think people should consider what they've written before they hit the 'Post Reply' button and if it's nothing but hyperbole or flag waving they should reconsider before they click. They should also consider if it's on topic ... which we've strayed from far enough in this one.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  24. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 Kunitz Was There

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    I think the issues with Sullivan are massively overblown, and it basically all stems from Sullivan having problems with a guy who's a fan favorite. I think it can be really simplified to that. Sullivan's issues or red flags are almost solely that he doesn't like players who don't fall in line and doesn't like lazy players (lazy as in not all effort players). Tactical problems? Sullivan is one of the better tactical coaches in all of hockey. Stubbornness? Maybe on some things, but he's certainly willing to make changes if things aren't working. If anything, you can say he's trigger happy to make some changes. He seems to get along really well with all of the players as long as they get in line and aren't lazy.

    I think any complaints about Sullivan or claims of "red flags" are absurdly premature. Saying that Sullivan may jump on your **** list or fire watch next season is straight up asinine. Someone literally said that on the last page.
     
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  25. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    Yeah, Bylsma and Johnston wrote their *own* books. Doesn't mean ****.
     
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