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Philosophy Change?

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Ace2008, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Ace2008

    Ace2008 Registered User

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    Much focus has been put on youth and speed over the last few years.

    Question I have is what type of roster wins cups....Bruins did it with selke calibre goal scoring undersized*compared to avg size blueliners* Pivot duo of Krecji and Bergeron and the heroics of T.Thomas and Chara and LUcic...against the Presidents trophy A.Vigneault coached Canucks.

    I doubt that the Sedins are available....and I doubt that Vigneault will get Sedin calibre performances from the teenage duo of Chytil and L.Andersson....(L.A. from here on)

    My observations are that the teams that win the cup like last years Penguins and the Hurricanes do it on the shoulders of elite strength down the middle...specifically Hall of Fame calibre Centers and strong Shutdown Defenders.....

    I see Zibanejad as a #1 Center....Hayes more of a #3/4 on a cup team...potentially a playmaking #2 wing in the top 6.

    the teens are good....but none of them scream top line stud...clearly keeping them makes sense...but the team could supersize the shutdown portion of their blueline this summer and add another young Right shot defender in the mold of Stephen Johns....

    Shut down double digit goal scoring shutdown defender...for those mentioning speed...E.Johnson is a former 1st overall blueliner that gets about 8-12 goals a year and not many assists...but he's on an island defensively since all their other blueliner lower his stats.

    Skej-Gilmour

    Hajek-Shattenkirk

    ???_----Plionk


    Ogara--DeAngelo/Day


    is a nice blueline if a speedy shutdown blueliner could be added ***McISAAC/ OR A college/euro UFA?
    NYR has great PPQB''s with DeAngelo, Plionk, Gilmour, and the all-star Shattenkirk....getting Power Centers and some quality snipers back like Pirri and Grabner as insurance makes sense.


    this is a UFA hunting depth chart....

    followed by a scenario where they make just `1 trade for a sniping pivot that can also play RW.

    either something obscene like MZA/Spooner+Beleskey+ Staal (with salary retained) plus a late 1st or early 2nd in this draft and something small for Bjugstad or J.Carter could bring a very strong 25 + goal physical presence to the 2nd line.

    Assuming kovalchuk plays with Buchnevich.... the forward group should have some excellent size/speed and blend of youth/ experience

    (4m)Kovalchuk---Namestnikov(2.75m)-Buch(940k)

    (4.6)Kreider--Zibanejad(5.3m)---hopefully O.Wahlstrom/Svechnikov/Bjugstad/J.Carter that's my Q:which?

    VESEY(1)-L.A-(1m)--Howden(1m)///or Spooner/MZA

    Grabner(3m)-Hayes(3.1-4.1m)--Fast(1.85m)

    MPS/Pouliot(*1.6m)---Chytil-Nieves--Pirri as reserves....



    My question is basically...how much longer do the NYR brass feel that they can just win a cup regardless of who is in net if they don't get a legitimate trio of #1 Centers....every team that has won in the current format has had a solid #3 that could be put into a top line role if needed and handle 19+ minutes and faceoffs.

    if Namestnikov is a good fit with kovalchuk...and Zibanejad can stay healthy as a 2nd #1 pivot...then getting a good big Center that can also play RW like the aforementioned Walhstrom...young and unproven or Jeff Carter/N.Bjugstad would really help



    J.CArter---not really a band-aid boy...but a good all around player with the pass coming to him that gets game winning goals in bunches...scores clutch in the playoffs...but the Kings are stuck overpaying several other players that nobody wants and need proven shutdown defense*(phaneuf helps but not enough)

    and a quality playmaking winger in the spooner/MZA mold might peek their interest if a high enough pick is made...

    the NYR will probably not have lots of extra 1st round picks in the next few drafts....using 2 of them for something they like.....and 1 to fill a need through trade makes sense ....if the Vegas group can flip a 1st , 2nd , and 3rd, pick for a 2nd line scorer like TATar....then maybe the NYR can add a proven vet like CArter or a young power forward like Bjugstad....that gives advantage when they're on the ice at both RW and Center.





    As for the wingers that are available in the uFA market....the only one that makes sense on a 1-2 yr show me deal is either E.Kane or P.Maroon

    and both will likely have agents asking for $4-5 mill per year on at least 5 year deals....problem is that KOvalchuk will outplay both and neither is exactly game breaking 30 goal scoring studs.

    Maroon rode McDavid's flank and can certainly be a solid #3 LW that fills a net presence need on a PP

    E.Kane has the speed but little else as their are plenty of 20 goal calibre wingers like Vanek/Grabner/Pouliot and so he's bound to be overpaid for his youth.


    Every summer brings surprise...there was no surprise that Shattenkirk signed

    and there is no surprise here if Kovalchuk comes to NY....he already saw what a stacked NJD could do with him and now wants to play in NYC....theoretically the Isles are in NY....but they can't be seen as a logical fit for him with their defensive and goaltending problems....

    As for having the appropriate outlook

    the draft is deep in Defensemen....taking a cautious approach burns both the last good years of Lundqvist who should either be traded or rewarded...and trading him is not making much sense unless a clear star calibre player is coming back...and few teams would dow that except maybe Seattle eventually....

    For right now the team needs are only #2 shutdown Right shooting blueliner

    a #3/4 Left shooting speed skating blueliner

    and a sniping #1 calibre 25+ face off winning center



    If we say that retooling/Re loading teams can't compete for a playoffs spot/cup

    then look at the Avs this year before the E.Johnson injury that managed just fine untli Erik got injured

    and load up on 1 more sniping Center that can carry a larger load and still slot in at RW/C.

    the philosophy of rebuilding and taking 3.--5yrs to be cup calibre again isn't necessary

    the depth chart I listed above with a healthy Ge0rgiev and a strong year from the Russian line should be capable of doing excellent in the regular season
     
  2. Rangers743

    Rangers743 Lias Andersson Fanboy

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    The Rangers are trying to rebuild, if they weren't they wouldn't have traded away their #1 Dman/Capitan. Acquiring the Sedins, Jeff Carter, and Erik Johnson makes zero sense with what this team is now trying to do.
     
  3. NYRFANMANI

    NYRFANMANI beyond good and evil

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    This op is all over the place. I really stopped reading after Stephan Johns ... who I guess is actually Seth Jones, right?
     
  4. jas

    jas Unsatisfied

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    This thread is headed to the roster building thread, where it will die in darkness. SOP for the original poster.
     
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  5. Kitten

    Kitten Registered User

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    I read the title of the thread and thought the Rongos were going to hire Max Stirner as their new head coach.
     
  6. Samuel Culper III

    Samuel Culper III Mr. Woodhull...

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    No... Stephen Johns is Stephen Johns. He’s on Dallas and is anything from a #4-7. Just for informational purposes.

    As for the actual OP... I’m feeling the Bern(meister), if you know what I’m saying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  7. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

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    Actually there's a good chance the Sedin's will be available though their time has been and it's gone and I wouldn't do it.

    As for Zibanejad being a 1st line center and Hayes more of a 3/4 on a cup team--that made me wince. Hayes has done a fairly decent Sean Couturier impression this year. He's a good player. Zibanejad is a good player too--he's not a first line center unless you have no one better anyway.

    Rangers will be putting pieces together next year--trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. Hopefully many or most of those pieces will work out. Chances are though we're not going to the playoffs next year either. It will be a process.

    As for our defense---well it has to defend well but what we're looking at right now is Shattenkirk, Skjei, Staal and a bunch of kids. None of them are really first pairing guys. DeAngelo, Pionk and Gilmour still have a lot to prove--like can they stick in the league and be effective. Every single one of those defensemen named above have some kind of major issue or another if you ask me and to my eyes Skjei is the only indispensable one of the entire bunch as in I wouldn't trade him without some kind of massive overpayment.

    We're in the two steps back so we can take a step forward again. Think of it as a maze and you've run into a wall with no out and have to retrace your steps. That's where we are.
     
  8. RangerBlues

    RangerBlues Registered User

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    Fact. You cant win without dynamic talent.
    There is less if it in hockey than any other sport.
     
  9. True Blue

    True Blue Registered User

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    No, but you can tailor a system that would put the players into a better position to win games.

    It sounds like you are continuing your defense of AV in a different thread here.
     
  10. jas

    jas Unsatisfied

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    When Zibanejad plays like he did last night, he’s very much a first line center. He’s got 22 goals in 60 games, which over a full season works out to 30 goals. When was the last time a Ranger center had 30 goals? Lindros? Nedved?

    He’s only 24. There is still time for growth. We know he’s a get player when Kreider is on his wing. His problem seems to be that he takes a long time to recover from injuries.
     
  11. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

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    He was great last night. Not only two big goals but he had 9 shots on net. He and Kreider were beasts against one of the best teams in the league. He and the rest of the team have played harder since the trade deadline. I'll tell you another trend with Mika----at the midpoint 41 game mark of the season he had 22 hits in 31 games played. Now he has 77 in 61 games played--a 250% increase---so he's been a lot more physical and I think that helps his game quite a lot. But a 1st line center on an average team should come up with about 65 points over the course of a year. That's where he needs to get to. Until he does I'm looking at him as a 2nd line center.

    With Ryan and Rick gone we're seeing others coming out. Hayes for one and Kreider and Mika have been showing some signs of that too. This is another reason why maybe we don't need Rick back. Let these guys take charge. Kreider said in the postgame last night--'we're professional athletes. We're not going to quit.'
     
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  12. YearOfTheCat

    YearOfTheCat Registered User

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    Zib seems to play better when he plays vs Brassard.

    It's like he says, "I'm playing against the guy I was traded for so I better make a good show of it."
     
  13. Larrybiv

    Larrybiv Rangers fan forever!

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    OP lost me when he mentioned Pirri (loll, but I'm not the critical type, so I read on.
    I've said this once, I'll say it again. You don't buy the horse, before you build the barn. (Or, in this case buy it)

    With all of these thoughts swirling around about getting this player and that player, it all seems somewhat irrelevant to me right now. We need to be patient as fans, and let the team "form itself" to a degree. Just about any player that we "fill in" with, needs to be a very limited commitment. I was originally fine with Grabs and maybe even Nasher, (and for that matter Kovy) but you have to be careful. There's a reason why people say "you should never go back". Also, they would take away valuable playing time from some of our "deemed ready" kids. Of course, if they're not ready, then again by all means fill in, but with 2 year max, (3 if it's Grabs or Nasher)
    Those types of aqusitions would put us right back into a "contending mode" and I'm not exactly sure we should be doing that, that quickly. I wouldn't mind ONE more year of sucktatode......yeah sucktatode. This is our ONLY CHANCE at backing us up with a few more solid young draftees next season on top of what we get this year on top of LA and Chytil.

    Once we get respectable, there IS NO TURNING BACK and won't see those high picks again. Yes, I'm very afraid of being a good team but not being able to hoist the doggone cup.
     
  14. Larrybiv

    Larrybiv Rangers fan forever!

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    Also, by going 5-2-1 we really are screwing up a higher pctg. for getting the top dog or whomever, but maybe we will get lucky (God knows we deserve it). But it's been fun since tdl.

    Trading Zuccha (sorry) gets us another #1 (I'm hoping) and with a Buffalo or Arizona type season......(without Zucch, chances are better for that) maybe we get a stud next season.

    Point is......I really don't want it to be 3-5 years but I don't want this to be rushed either. We have enough of stability to show the kids how to be pros (Hank, Marc, Kreids, Hayes, Zbad) We dont need to add any additional NHLers that have salary and baggage from other teams. After next season hit the FA pool and get "exactly who we NEED to give us a fighting chance". We need to do this right.
     
  15. Hire Sather

    Hire Sather Don't punt seasons

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    I've never believed in the Sedins and never will. Always had to have both of them, no thanks

    Would've cut bait long ago if I were Vamcouver.

    Suggesting that we acquire them is borderline insane.
     
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  16. Ace2008

    Ace2008 Registered User

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    I didn't say that they should get anyone except either J.Carter...who at $5.million is not expensive and in line with what they're paying Zibanejad.

    as for the other player mentioned....Bjugstad...is $4.1 cap hit and a decent bet to spike his goal totals when used as a scorer unlike the mostly 3rd line starts he's had throughout his NHL tenure up to this February.

    I don't think there are many differences between the NYR and many teams that could compete for a cup....except they need another #1 calibre 25+ goal center and few shutdown defenders that could be added from Europe/Minors/ or College ranks...basically 1 big move....or hoping someone like a Wahlstrom / Ryan McLeod*(not Cody) can step in and snipe....but that's not realistic to expect faceoff wins.
     
  17. Ace2008

    Ace2008 Registered User

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    Stephen Johns Stats, Profile, Bio, Analysis and More | Dallas Stars | The Sports Forecaster

    a solid # 4 shutdown type that can support a speedskater like Skej/Gilmour/McIsaac if they draft him and has double digit goal scoring ability from the right side .

    that scouting report was written before this season....he's quite solid against the big pwr fwd's and is an example of a low cost addition...

    not that I recommend trading for him...he's simply an example...as for Dallas' blueline...they've been somewhat mismanaged this season as stars like Julius HONKA are barely clearing 15 minutes some games...and he's a better player offensively than anybody except Klinkberg on that team.
     
  18. Ace2008

    Ace2008 Registered User

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    As

    Nash might want to return....but why...the team needs more aggressive physical players and speedsters on the cheap....Nash fits neither...and if Lindgren pans out as a quality top 4 blueliner...and Beleskey could be C.Lemeiuex/C.Wilson type of playoff warrior...then they NYR completely fleeced the bruins regardless of the Bruins winning a cup with Nash.
     
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  19. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

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    I'm going to give you a like on this because IMO Nash should be done as a Ranger----but Beleskey's days as an NHL'er are probably over.
     
  20. Rangers743

    Rangers743 Lias Andersson Fanboy

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    Your post was all over the place. You mentioned a bunch of random players and didn't explain anything so I had no clue what you were talking about when mentioning players (like the Sedins and E. Johnson)
    As for Jeff Carter why would the Kings trade him? He's their second best forward
     
  21. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    Haha, can you imagine AV tailoring anything?
     

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