OT: Philadelphia Eagles: 2017 Season (Week Six And Beyond)

[BrindamoursNose]

You don't judge a draft in its first year.

This.

This x2.

 

[Dakota Sioux]

https://www.sportsinsights.com/blog/aaron-rodgers-injury-opens-door-new-mvp-candidates/

 

[BrindamoursNose]

https://www.sportsinsights.com/blog/aaron-rodgers-injury-opens-door-new-mvp-candidates/

Yeah, it's really hard to argue otherwise at this moment in time. We'll have to see 10 weeks from now!

 

[achdumeingute]

Kareem Hunt. Alvin Kamara.

Not really a fair judgement to pass as we had no 3rd round pick. Many other teams did not take either player in 2+ rounds.

 

[achdumeingute]

You don't judge a draft in its first year.

You don't judge it negatively for sure....

 

[achdumeingute]

What is the argument for this being a good draft? I don't see it.

We are getting useful contributions from many players in the current draft. Barnett looks ok, Hollins is good on ST and isn't a void at WR, Qualls made the team. Jones well earned his 1st round projections, so he was good value at 43. Gibson and Pumphry did not perform well in TC, but they did show something in lower levels.

Its better than drafting Danny Watkins who was a SUPER low ceiling to begin with.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Not really a fair judgement to pass as we had no 3rd round pick. Many other teams did not take either player in 2+ rounds.

Check again.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

We are getting useful contributions from many players in the current draft. Barnett looks ok, Hollins is good on ST and isn't a void at WR, Qualls made the team. Jones well earned his 1st round projections, so he was good value at 43. Gibson and Pumphry did not perform well in TC, but they did show something in lower levels.

Its better than drafting Danny Watkins who was a SUPER low ceiling to begin with.

As others have said, you don't evaluate a draft after one year, so we're just talking about early results. "Better than Danny Watkins" is not the bar for a good draft.

Barnett looks solid but unspectacular. I like Jones the player too, but he hasn't played a down and we have to see how he looks after an Achilles injury when he already wasn't a very good athlete. Douglas looks like a guy. I love Hollins and was in here hoping they would draft him well before the day of, but he's a special teams player with 5 catches after Week 6 and he's your second best rookie so far. Qualls has been passed by a practice squad call up. Everyone has else has given you zero.

The early results aren't good. The team is, though!

By the way, to this day, current and former front office people talk about how much the league as a whole LOVED Watkins coming out. No one knew he didn't really care about football.

 

[achdumeingute]

Check again.

We had no pick by the time either of these players were drafted. We had LONG since traded ours. They were not there when we had our laaaate 3rd round pick.

happy?

 

[achdumeingute]

As others have said, you don't evaluate a draft after one year, so we're just talking about early results. "Better than Danny Watkins" is not the bar for a good draft.

Barnett looks solid but unspectacular. I like Jones the player too, but he hasn't played a down and we have to see how he looks after an Achilles injury when he already wasn't a very good athlete. Douglas looks like a guy. I love Hollins and was in here hoping they would draft him well before the day of, but he's a special teams player with 5 catches after Week 6 and he's your second best rookie so far. Qualls has been passed by a practice squad call up. Everyone has else has given you zero.

The early results aren't good. The team is, though!

By the way, to this day, current and former front office people talk about how much the league as a whole LOVED Watkins coming out. No one knew he didn't really care about football.

Even with the not liking football stuff, he was a 26 yr old guard. It wasn't a good pick.

The point is our draft is seeing the field, and many are contributing something as first year players on a winning team. I certainly see that as a positive far more than a negative.

 

[FLYguy3911]

We had no pick by the time either of these players were drafted. We had LONG since traded ours. They were not there when we had our laaaate 3rd round pick.

happy?

The pick was traded in the offseason. It's not like they didn't know they were giving up a lot of value by trading for a 1 year rental.

Even so Kamara was a solid 2nd round pick at the time. Hunt wouldn't have been outrageous in the 2nd either. The thing about Jones is they probably could have traded back and picked up additional picks if they wanted him that bad.

 

[Yourself]

Barnett looks solid but unspectacular. I like Jones the player too, but he hasn't played a down and we have to see how he looks after an Achilles injury when he already wasn't a very good athlete. Douglas looks like a guy. I love Hollins and was in here hoping they would draft him well before the day of, but he's a special teams player with 5 catches after Week 6 and he's your second best rookie so far. Qualls has been passed by a practice squad call up. Everyone has else has given you zero.

The early results aren't good.

So which of Douglas or Barnett is Hollins doing better than? Cause I really do not know which one you are thinking he has done better than, but either one I disagree with.

As for the "early results aren't good" I also disagree with that. Early results have been fairly good having 3 people contributing while also having what was a 1st round talent not yet hit the field.

As for the whole achilles injury while not being a very good athlete, I just do not see this as much as a negative as most people. The guy had that talent grade while not being athletic as people put it. Surely that means he must know how to compensate for that deficit already and he will be able to continue to make up for that deficit in the future. If he doesn't, then I doubt the injury is the reason and it will simply be because he was never going to be good enough in the NFL. If this was some super athletic guy who had the injury I would be much more concerned, because that was what made him good. That is not what made Jones good based off of what people say here, so I am not sure why people are so caught up on it. He knows how to play without the athleticism already.

 

[achdumeingute]

The pick was traded in the offseason. It's not like they didn't know they were giving up a lot of value by trading for a 1 year rental.

Even so Kamara was a solid 2nd round pick at the time. Hunt wouldn't have been outrageous in the 2nd either. The thing about Jones is they probably could have traded back and picked up additional picks if they wanted him that bad.

Jernigan has been an absolute beast and doesn't have to necessarily be a rental, he's been more of an impact than Logan. And we also got the pick that turned into Douglas. In hindsight, it could have been hunt, but in hindsight the return has also been pretty good.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The injury makes the margin for error in his recovery very thin because his base wasn’t very high to begin with. If his athletic profile takes a hit because of this injury (which there’s at least some type of chance otherwise he doesn’t fall) then it’s going to make it harder for him to be an impact corner in this league.

We’ll ultimately see as time goes on but the Eagles basically need him to turn into an impact player for that pick to make sense given everything at play for it. It was a big gamble & essentially a luxury pick made by a team wasn’t really in position to be making those type of moves.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

So which of Douglas or Barnett is Hollins doing better than? Cause I really do not know which one you are thinking he has done better than, but either one I disagree with.

As for the "early results aren't good" I also disagree with that. Early results have been fairly good having 3 people contributing while also having what was a 1st round talent not yet hit the field.

As for the whole achilles injury while not being a very good athlete, I just do not see this as much as a negative as most people. The guy had that talent grade while not being athletic as people put it. Surely that means he must know how to compensate for that deficit already and he will be able to continue to make up for that deficit in the future. If he doesn't, then I doubt the injury is the reason and it will simply be because he was never going to be good enough in the NFL. If this was some super athletic guy who had the injury I would be much more concerned, because that was what made him good. That is not what made Jones good based off of what people say here, so I am not sure why people are so caught up on it. He knows how to play without the athleticism already.

I value potential more than getting on the field. You think the opposite. We could go back and forth forever, but that's ultimately what it comes down to and it's not like someone can be wrong. The record of the team has no bearing on individual play or worth, though.

I like Sidney Jones the player and I loathe that I am put into a position of being negative on him because some (not saying you) get carried away. As LoD said, I just didn't think he was the right pick for this team in that spot. The second he was drafted (and it would have happened on any team, not just the Eagles), some turned him into a top 10 guy or consensus CB1 who fell due to an injury when he was falling long before due to the athleticism concerns. Not out of the first, but as we all know, there is a sizable gap between Top 10 and mid 20s talent in typical drafts, 2017 being one. He only ended up sliding 15-20 picks for a serious injury that has a history of pong-term ramifications. Hopefully he comes all the way back because that's a pretty good Corner prospect.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Jernigan has been an absolute beast and doesn't have to necessarily be a rental, he's been more of an impact than Logan. And we also got the pick that turned into Douglas. In hindsight, it could have been hunt, but in hindsight the return has also been pretty good.

Jernigan's been good, but he's a bit of a luxury on a team that has Fletcher Cox. And yeah he doesn't have to be a rental, but that means they will have to commit long term to a position that they've already invested $100 million in.

I know the team is winning and I'm pumped too, but the offseason philosophy still confuses me. You swap picks for a short term upgrade and then you draft a CB coming off an Achilles for the long run. It doesn't make sense but hopefully it works out.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Jernigan's been good, but he's a bit of a luxury on a team that has Fletcher Cox. And yeah he doesn't have to be a rental, but that means they will have to commit long term to a position that they've already invested $100 million in.

I know the team is winning and I'm pumped too, but the offseason philosophy still confuses me. You swap picks for a short term upgrade and then you draft a CB coming off an Achilles for the long run. It doesn't make sense but hopefully it works out.

If you re-sign Jernigan, it makes total sense. If not, it still works. We didn't have another feasible DT to keep the penetration needed with Fletcher Cox there. Beau Allen is okay, but not long-term starting material.

Remember though: Jones was arguably the #1 pick in this draft if he wasn't hurt. I think taking a flier on him there was great. There were only 1 or 2 corners that we believed could've given us starter-quality talent right away, one of them being Conley who was accused of assault shortly before (which always makes players tumble). It didn't shake out perfectly, but we're sitting in a good spot still.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Does Darby have a shot to play Monday ??

 

[Hiesenberg]

Sounds like it.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Does Darby have a shot to play Monday ??

He does. If he's borderline, I hope they sit him for another week. No point rushing him when the corners haven't been a problem really. I'd rather him be ready later for guys like Dez than worrying about Pryor (who's been bad).

 

[FLYguy3911]

Sounds like he's a longshot for Monday. I'm guessing Douglas takes a seat when he gets back, although I'd personally like to see him stay out there.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I absolutely love Jernigan, but re-signing him is sometimes talked about as an easy prospect. The fact is that this team has ~6.6MM in space for next year with 44 players under contract and a draft class to add. It doesn't look like Kendricks is going anywhere anymore, so that means your options for significant cap savings are mainly cutting Torrey Smith to save 5MM, a Kelce cut to save 6MM with no ready-made replacement, and a Celek renegotiation or cut to save 4MM.

But first you have to sign Jeffery and you have to be prepared for the huge raise Wentz is going to get in 2020. It may seem early for that consideration, but if there's one thing Howie has always been excellent at, it's cap maneuvering and preparation.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I absolutely love Jernigan, but re-signing him is sometimes talked about as an easy prospect. The fact is that this team has ~6.6MM in space for next year with 44 players under contract and a draft class to add. It doesn't look like Kendricks is going anywhere anymore, so that means your options for significant cap savings are mainly cutting Torrey Smith to save 5MM, a Kelce cut to save 6MM with no ready-made replacement, and a Celek renegotiation or cut to save 4MM.

But first you have to sign Jeffery and you have to be prepared for the huge raise Wentz is going to get in 2020. It may seem early for that consideration, but if there's one thing Howie has always been excellent at, it's cap maneuvering and preparation.

It is definitely a concern. I have to add though (which you mentioned already with Celek), there's definitely room for renegotiation. A guy like Malcolm Jenkins is prime for that, since his cap number is 10 mill next year (which I can't imagine actually happening). I don't think it'll be easy to re-sign Timmy, but I guess I am having faith that Howie can make it work.

Definitely cut Torrey Smith, tho. Nelson gets his spot.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It is definitely a concern. I have to add though (which you mentioned already with Celek), there's definitely room for renegotiation. A guy like Malcolm Jenkins is prime for that, since his cap number is 10 mill next year (which I can't imagine actually happening). I don't think it'll be easy to re-sign Timmy, but I guess I am having faith that Howie can make it work.

Definitely cut Torrey Smith, tho. Nelson gets his spot.

For sure. There are a few guys you could renegotiate -- Jenkins as you mentioned to push some cap off, Celek, and then there's the Vinny Curry dilemma. I believe his guarantees were only the signing bonus and whatever portion of last and this year's salaries. Eating 6MM in dead space is brutal and I don't know if they would outright cut him, but it would save 5MM. I think the ship has sailed a bit on a Kendricks renegotiation, but who knows.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

For sure. There are a few guys you could renegotiate -- Jenkins as you mentioned to push some cap off, Celek, and then there's the Vinny Curry dilemma. I believe his guarantees were only the signing bonus and whatever portion of last and this year's salaries. Eating 6MM in dead space is brutal and I don't know if they would outright cut him, but it would save 5MM. I think the ship has sailed a bit on a Kendricks renegotiation, but who knows.

Oh gosh, if we can get rid of Curry without eating too much cap space...that'd be amazing (however totally unlikely, like you said).

Maybe Kendricks will be willing to renegotiate if he gets more upfront cash. Only solution I can think of.