Phaneuf accomplishment overlooked

[DFF]

Spezza is only as good as his linemates. Of course, he does create the great offensive chances that any Marco Sturm could score on. That is considerably harder to replace than a big point shot. I am not saying that Phaneuf's 20 goals haven't helped the Flames offence, but I do think they are about the easiest 20 goals to replace. Its not like he making something out of nothing.

well after they "revolved their PP", their PP went from one of the worst in years to one of the best ( or better). If it's that easy, most team would have revolved their PP around a rookie dman.

 

[Sammy*]

I dont believe in it, i just apply his logic.

yes i do believe if you get more PP time, you score more...but dont you agree that if someone gets more PP time and especially if the team revolves their offense around him, he must be good? That's the way it works for most great players.

Shooting down Phaneuf's accomplishment because the way his team plays is pretty lame IMO.

I agree with this whole post.

 

[Sammy*]

well after they "revolved their PP", their PP went from one of the worst in years to one of the best ( or better). If it's that easy, most team would have revolved their PP around a rookie dman.

From the begginning of the year, the Flames set their pp up around Phaneuf & his one timer. I think what happenned is Phaneuf got a little better (he missed the net a ton at the beginning) , the Flames & Phaneuf got a bit more creative (which isnt his schtick), & the Flamess personel on the pp in general got better.

 

[DFF]

From the begginning of the year, the Flames set their pp up around Phaneuf & his one timer. I think what happenned is Phaneuf got a little better (he missed the net a ton at the beginning) , the Flames & Phaneuf got a bit more creative (which isnt his schtick), & the Flamess personel on the pp in general got better.

yes the whole team gets better because now teams are worry about the guy at the point. Phaneuf makes you pay if you dont.

Anyway, I am not one who believe Phaneuf is on par with Lidstrom, Bourque and the best ever crap. What I believe is that Phaneuf has a potential to be the next Scott Steven with an Al MacInnis shot.That is plenty good enough.

Another thing that amazes me is this guy seems to exceed my expectation all the time, he keeps on getting better and better...I never imagined that he could have done what he did with his offense in his first year in the NHL. If anybody did, he would be lying.

 

[Pangu]

well after they "revolved their PP", their PP went from one of the worst in years to one of the best ( or better). If it's that easy, most team would have revolved their PP around a rookie dman.

I think that he has improved his team's PP, but his goal total would be a lot more impressive if he made something from nothing rather than something from PPs. I would say the same thing about Bryan McCabe. He is very good on the PP and he 20 goals is very impressive, but there it would be hard for 20 goals to be less impressive then if 16 are on the PP. If you put another Dman there he would probably have 10-12 PP goals rather than 16 and whatever that corresponds to in assists. If he had scored 16 ES goals then the average Dman replacing him would probably score 6-7 in his place. So while scoring an extra 4-6 goals is impressive, it is not as impressive as 20 goals scored mainly ES.

 

[DFF]

I think that he has improved his team's PP, but his goal total would be a lot more impressive if he made something from nothing rather than something from PPs. I would say the same thing about Bryan McCabe. He is very good on the PP and he 20 goals is very impressive, but there it would be hard for 20 goals to be less impressive then if 16 are on the PP. If you put another Dman there he would probably have 10-12 PP goals rather than 16 and whatever that corresponds to in assists. If he had scored 16 ES goals then the average Dman replacing him would probably score 6-7 in his place. So while scoring an extra 4-6 goals is impressive, it is not as impressive as 20 goals scored mainly ES.

well i dont disagree that the guy get more goals because he is on the PP. Most of his points are on the PP. What I am saying is it's incredible that he gets himself that role in his first year in the NHL. Give him some credit for that instead of whining about him getting his goals because of his role.

Anyway, the offense is just the bonus for Phaneuf IMO. He is a total package. The offense just makes him look better.

 

[Pangu]

OK, I will give him credit, he has a really good shot for a rookie 20 year old.

 

[DFF]

OK, I will give him credit, he has a really good shot for a rookie 20 year old.

lol..hater

 

[Kaizer]

I don't want to discuss was Phaneuf overlooked or not, but .. arguments against Phaneuf ... I've read it somewhere already:
- Ovechkin was able to score 50 goals because he had tons of shots,
- now ... Phaneuf scored 20 because he had tons of shots...



PS Blake and Lidstrom aren't 20+ D-men but have the same number of shots

 

[Letang fan 58]

Now I know you can't take away POWER PLAY points from a guys total, but they can exagerate things a little bit.

For example...Phanuef has 20 goals on the season....16 of them came on the power-play....4 goals at even strength is not that impressive.

In fact Ballard, Campoli, Seabrook, Meyer, Michalek, Juricna, Schubert all are rookie d-men who have also scored 4 goals at even strength.

Phanuef has 22 points at even strength...which is still good for a rookie blueliner.

I guess what I'm saying is the fact that he is the FOCAL point of the Flames power-play exagerates his season a little bit.

Still a great blueliner, one of the best, not taking that away from him, just pointing out that his stats aren't as impressive as some say.

Pardon me? why are we taking away his power play points????? since when did this not become part of the game????? has there been something that shows he wont be on the power play in the future????? has there been some memo posted somewhere that Ballard Campoli Seabrook Meyer Michalek Juricna Schubert are going to all of a sudden develop a Phaneuf like shot and become the Stud that Phaneuf is? What a ridiculous post.......truly.

 

[Letang fan 58]

First of all, the premise of this thread is ridiculous. He gets tons of press & to suggest he is overlooked in any way , well only the mightiest of Dion fanboys could think that.
Phaneuf has been on the #1 pp all year long. Hes also received almost twice as much pp time as the next closest d-man. You'd think a Phaneuf lover would know this much.
Btw, is Matt Carle still unknown?

.

the thread was about him scoring his 20th goal going unknown as an accomplishment........I would bet that you had not heard about it until this post.......and I would bet most others had not heard about it.......I knew about this feat and didnt say a thing......nor did anyone else for days after it......nor did any of the big canadian media outlets that I had seen........thus....it went unnoticed which is sad because it is more rare then Ovechkin scoring 50 goals or 100 points.

 

[Letang fan 58]

I don't see how Flames fans do not grasp that his goal total is exagerated by his role on the Flames. While its true that the Flames play a defensive game and that partially explains why he only has 4 ES goals, the 16 PP goals are not effected by that defensive play. I mean his shot % isn't that bad, but that type of goal scoring isn't all that impressive. Lots of teams use other types of PPs that would not give him that many opportunities.

Did you hate how Al Mac scored his goals too? with that huge shot of his? I would hope you did at least.

 

[Letang fan 58]

I think that he has improved his team's PP, but his goal total would be a lot more impressive if he made something from nothing rather than something from PPs. I would say the same thing about Bryan McCabe. He is very good on the PP and he 20 goals is very impressive, but there it would be hard for 20 goals to be less impressive then if 16 are on the PP. If you put another Dman there he would probably have 10-12 PP goals rather than 16 and whatever that corresponds to in assists. If he had scored 16 ES goals then the average Dman replacing him would probably score 6-7 in his place. So while scoring an extra 4-6 goals is impressive, it is not as impressive as 20 goals scored mainly ES.

I'm not sure if you know this or not.....Phaneuf is a rookie.......hes 21.......only 2 other rookie dmen in history have scored 20 goals........take pot shots at him all you want......im pretty sure the power play was part of the game last I checked, and if it was just that simple to get any dman shoot from the blueline and get a good power play going then there are 29 other teams in the nhl that would have done it.

 

[Sammy*]

the thread was about him scoring his 20th goal going unknown as an accomplishment........I would bet that you had not heard about it until this post.......and I would bet most others had not heard about it.......I knew about this feat and didnt say a thing......nor did anyone else for days after it......nor did any of the big canadian media outlets that I had seen........thus....it went unnoticed which is sad because it is more rare then Ovechkin scoring 50 goals or 100 points.

Oh yeah, I heard & read of it, just as I am sure many with a clue heard of it.
Kinda like Matt Carle.

 

[Habs4Life]

Ok Flames fans we get it that phaneuf is a good player.....

No he's a great player!!

 

[TK79]

I find this thread kind of ironic.. Talk of Phaneuf being underrated and then people are calling him the best defenseman in the league, which in my book is vastly overrating him (at least at the moment). Phaneuf could become the best in the league someday, but not yet..

 

[Nielson81]

Pardon me? why are we taking away his power play points????? since when did this not become part of the game????? has there been something that shows he wont be on the power play in the future????? has there been some memo posted somewhere that Ballard Campoli Seabrook Meyer Michalek Juricna Schubert are going to all of a sudden develop a Phaneuf like shot and become the Stud that Phaneuf is? What a ridiculous post.......truly.

Actually if you looked at the first sentence of my post I said.

I KNOW YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY POWER PLAY POINTS, but they do exagerate is numbers compared to the rest of the rookies.

 

[Nielson81]

I guess the only way to settle thing is this:

Phanuef is a great, hard hitting, hard shooting 21 year old defensemen who benfits greatly from being the only source of offensive from the Flames blueline on the power-play.

That is a pretty fair comment. He's outstanding.

 

[habsfansam]

same logic and I think Spezza is tottally overated. His points totally come from his role on the team and who he is playing with. The guy is useless if he plays with the Shean Donovans of the world.

This is better than Saturday morning cartoons!

I think this thread has turned into a "flames fans feel jilted because we've convinced ourselves that we have been" type of thread.

1. Phaneuf is great. Congrats, you can now no longer say that he's overlooked because everyone in this thread took a look and agreed... yep, he's pretty darn good.

2. Phaneuf is not the next coming of Bobby Orr or even Ray Bourque, at least not yet. The points being made are very valid howevermuch Phaneuf-for-president zealots try to negate them. For example:

With 236 shots and as the focal point for a power play Phaneuf gets a chance to excel that most other rookies only dream of. It's a little hard for most non-flames fans to fall all over themselves worshipping a guy who steps into a defense-oriented team that played in the Cup Finals last year and is given the chance of a lifetime: to have a PP funneled through him. Yeah, you earn PP points, but you're at a slight advantage when you get them... that's the whole idea of the PP - hence we tend to focus on even strength points as a measuring stick since those are the times when a player isn't at an advantage over his opponent.

Point being, stop feeling all put upon because Phaneuf won't win the Calder... if that had been SO important, why not buy a time-machine, go back and present a petition saying that Dion can't play because he won't get the recoginition he deserves. I'm sure that the Flames organization will take it into consideration.

Till next time, this is Yoda McShmoda for TSN saying "Crosby and Ovechkin are still gonna get more press, get used to it"

 

[habsfansam]

Just to clarify... PP points are still points, but I - personally - am more impressed if you tell me that he's a monster hitter, plays solid D, is a team player, is smart, and has great skills that make him the Flames #1 as a rookie... during even strength situations. If you want to make a valid PP point (no pun intended) regarding Phaneuf's contribution, try suggesting that Phaneuf is valuable and doing a great job because the Flames PP improved 10 spots from 03-04 to 05-06 and is clicking at about 3% high efficiency. If you can directly correlate the improved efficiency with Phaneuf's play (over whoever was there previously) then I'd say great!

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that a guy like Ovechkin stepped into a situation with little to no supporting cast and has literally 'blown up' on the scene. Phaneuf on the other hand has been given every chance to succeed and has. Phaneuf gets overshadowed because nothing about his game or situation makes his numbers the equivalent of what Ovechkin has done.

 

[Randall Graves*]

yes the whole team gets better because now teams are worry about the guy at the point. Phaneuf makes you pay if you dont.

Anyway, I am not one who believe Phaneuf is on par with Lidstrom, Bourque and the best ever crap. What I believe is that Phaneuf has a potential to be the next Scott Steven with an Al MacInnis shot.That is plenty good enough.

Another thing that amazes me is this guy seems to exceed my expectation all the time, he keeps on getting better and better...I never imagined that he could have done what he did with his offense in his first year in the NHL. If anybody did, he would be lying.

wow Phanuef has the potential to be a hybrid of two hall of famers?

You want to throw Denis Potvin and Bobby Orr in there too?

 

[Transported Upstater]

wow Phanuef has the potential to be a hybrid of two hall of famers?

You want to throw Denis Potvin and Bobby Orr in there too?

Meh, Bobby Orr my ***.

"Double Bobby" isn't nearly as cool as "The Double Dion."

 

[Epsilon]

I'll go out on a limb and say this. Phaneuf has been the best rookie, bar none, this year. For all the hype and talk that Ovechkin and Crosby get, Phaneuf has done an amazing job in his rookie year learning a position that normally takes several seasons to lock down before being considered an elite player. Phaneuf has been elite. I'd go out on a limb and say he's probably been the best defenseman in the league this year. I'm sure all the Lidstrom and Blake and other fans will be on here crying and moaning, but when you look at it, Phaneuf has been just as good as everyone of those guys and has been all the more impressive when you consider his age.

Yeah, Phaneuf won't win the Calder this year, but I should hope to hell is in the running for the Norris trophy at the very least.

This post is solid evidence in favour of Phaneuf being one of the league's most overrated players this season.

 

[darth5]

This is better than Saturday morning cartoons!

I think this thread has turned into a "flames fans feel jilted because we've convinced ourselves that we have been" type of thread.

1. Phaneuf is great. Congrats, you can now no longer say that he's overlooked because everyone in this thread took a look and agreed... yep, he's pretty darn good...
...

Till next time, this is Yoda McShmoda for TSN saying "Crosby and Ovechkin are still gonna get more press, get used to it"

Best post on Phaneuf yet!

 

[Letang fan 58]

Oh yeah, I heard & read of it, just as I am sure many with a clue heard of it.
Kinda like Matt Carle.

Yea cuz i never heard of Carle before......seriously though.....get a clue......and get over it.......I still say he is not in the class of Jack Johnson and you can have your own opinion on it....but there is no need to carry on like the moron you are