Phaneuf accomplishment overlooked

[Randall Graves*]

Phanuef has not been overlooked at all. he receives plenty of praise and deserves it.

Brent Seabrook is the rookie who get's overlooked.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Just a quick search with his name yeilded hundreds and hundreds of threads mentioning him, all positive by the way, and many recent threads with the sole topic being him, all positive again. Such as:


http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=241480&highlight=Phaneuf

He is one of those players that would be worth it, no question. Teams are going to have a hell of a time keeping guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, Phaneuf, etc. The owners really would have been smart to work in some sort of franchise player clause like the NFL has.

Then again, RFAs can be matched, so even if one of those guys gets a max offer for a ridiculous length of time, the team will certainly match it.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=241066&highlight=Phaneuf

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=239753&highlight=Phaneuf

Phaneuf=Best rookie d-man since Bourque
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=238641&highlight=Phaneuf

Phaneuf has recieved huge amounts of attention and all of it positive. If anyone has a right to complain about his achievements being overlooked or discounted, it is Crosby who whatever NHL record he breaks or expectation that he blows by, he get labled with something like whiner, diver, puppy stealer, Ovechkin spot light stealer, and on and on to discount what he does on the ice.

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

I'm pretty sure he means the second-youngest rookie defenseman.

I still don't believe it.

 

[habsfansam]

First off, let me say that I think the thread is poorly named... Phaneuf has been overshadowed, not overlooked. Anyone would take him in less than a heartbeat right now, but all of those same people (probably without many exceptions) would take either Crosby or Ovechkin or both ahead of Phaneuf even with his accomplishments.

It is a shame that we forget this accomplishment from yet another stellar rookie of 2006 that in almost any other year woudl win the calder trophy as rookie of the year.

While I agree that Phaneuf has been good/great this year as a rookie, I think it's important to put into perspective how rarely Dmen win the Calder. Since 1967 when Bobby Orr won it playing mostly as an 18 yr old, the only Dmen to win have been Denis Potvin (in '74), Ray Bourque ('80), Gary Suter ('86), Brian Leetch ('89), Brian Berard ('97), and Barret Jackman ('03). That's 7 dmen in 40 years! The point is that it's fairly uncommon in any year for a Dman to win it, even if he's great.

The next question inevitably will be: Why? To be honest I think the reason finds its source in an old maxim: a dman is doing his job when you don't notice him. Sure Dion is scoring, making plays, being sound defensively, hitting, etc. but he's not going to put up 100 points this season or ever so he will probably not be considered the best of this years rookie class... ever. He's great, but it's a sad fact of life that unless he goes on to win many Stanley Cups and take home playoff MVP multiple times he'll never live up to Crosby or Ovechkin (provided that they continue to produce at their current levels... or, heaven forbid it, get even better).

Calgary fans, you have my sympathies. If it makes any difference know that most of us drool at the thought of having Dion on the blueline.

Phaneuf is perhaps the best defenseman at his age since Ray Bourque and if he continues his growth and development, maybe he will be the best defenseman since Bobby Orr - who knows and oonly time will tell...

It's just a bit early to suggest that Dion will pass the likes of Bourque, Potvin, Stevens, etc. We can resume this argument in about 10 - 15 years when it's based on more than just baravado and chest-thumping.

 

[Pizza]

Bottom line:

There is no GM, Player or fan that would not want Dion Phaneuf on their team.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I find it interesting that in a year so deeply laden with rookie talents.. that there is one overlooked accomplishment which is even more rare then Ovechkin getting 50 goals or both Ovechkin and Crosby netting 100 points.... Phaneuf has reached 2 milestones this evening.
1. The 3rd ever rookie defenseman to reach 20 goals in a season - in itself more rare the rookie 50 goal scorers

One, goal scoring is way up this year. I don't want to diminsh Dion's great season, but I really doubt he'd have had 20 goals last year.

2. Having been born on April 3, 1985 and having JUST turned 21 - he became the 2nd youngest Rookie to ever score 20 goals in a season and if I am not mistaken the third youngest defensman ever to score 20 goals. (Ray Bourque scored 27 goals as a 20 year old) Barry Beck scored 22 goals as a 20 year old as well (but his birthday was in June) Phaneuf is 2 months older then Beck when he scored his 20th.

He's been phenomenal. No doubt.

So while Ovechkin and Crosby get theri well deserved praise for such incredable feats... And Henrik Lundqvist continues to marvel in the net for the rangers as a rookie.. It is a shame that we forget this accomplishment from yet another stellar rookie of 2006 that in almost any other year woudl win the calder trophy as rookie of the year. Phaneuf is perhaps the best defenseman at his age since Ray Bourque and if he continues his growth and development, maybe he will be the best defenseman since Bobby Orr - who knows and oonly time will tell...

When I saw him early in the year, I thought he was still pretty raw.
But by the end of the year, he was one of the top d-men in the league.
He should be a great defenseman for years and perhaps one of the best in his era.

 

[Pangu]

I often think that Crosby is more over-looked then Phaneuf. By the way, is it time to convert this thread into another Meszaros = Phaneuf debate? Otherwise, I think this thread may die at 2 pages.

 

[oiled]

Ok Flames fans we get it that phaneuf is a good player.....

 

[Nielson81]

20 goals, as a rookie, as a defenseman, on a team that doesn't score goals is very impressive.

The Flames give Phanuef ever chance to score goals....lots of d-men would have 20 goals if the puck was set up like that for them every night.

Not to take anything away from him, great season.

 

[Nielson81]

Bottom line:

There is no GM, Player or fan that would not want Dion Phaneuf on their team.

You can say the same about Ovechkin, Crosby, Lundqvist, Miller, Mezarjos, Seabrook, Svatos, Boyes, Prucha, Getzlaf etc. etc.

NO GM, Player or Fan, would not want any of these guys on their team.

 

[Letang fan 58]

I still don't believe it.

Well he is only the third rookie Dman EVER to score 20 goals as i believe is in the threads first post........so believe it cuz its likely true.

 

[Letang fan 58]

The Flames give Phanuef ever chance to score goals....lots of d-men would have 20 goals if the puck was set up like that for them every night.

Not to take anything away from him, great season.

Lots of dmen would? then why doesnt regher or another flames dman.....sure they use phaneuf on the PP but the kid has an absolute cannon for a shot.....clearly you dont put much into that and his shot really is top notch.

 

[Flames Will]

So I do not check the board all the time but let me make a few clarifications...

1. The Flames goal scoring is only up marginally this season compared to 2 years ago - not anything like the rest of the NHL - so saying 20 goals by a defenseman is no big feat is garbage let alone doign it on one of the NHL's most defense oriented teams.

2. Only 2 defensemen this season have 20 goals thus far - that is nothing out of the oridary with most other seasons - most of the increased scoring has come from the forwards, though defensemen scoring has raised a small amount as well.

3. I did mean that he was the second youngest rookie defenseman to score 20 goals - Leetch was 1 year older and Barry beck was 2 months younger. Bourque scored 20 goals in his second season.

4. I did not say Phaneuf IS the best defenseman, or WILL be the best defenseman... I said Phaneuf MAY be the best defenseman since Bobby Orr.. and I also closed it with "Only time will tell" - insinuating that we can not judge that for several more years...

5. I highly encourage people to read the post heading clearly - Phaneuf ACCOMPLISHMENT overlooked - and I clearly stated what that accomplishment was in my post - that he scored 20 goals!

6. At the time of my original post NO WHERE was there any mention of his scoring 20 goals being such an incredable feat - not on SLAM, not on NHL.com, CNNSI, ESPN, NHLPA.com, foxsports.... the list goes on - no one published the fact that this feat is more rare then scoring 50 goals by a rookie forward. Simply stated the feat was indeed overlooked. In fact at the time of this post there still has been little reference to the feat in most publications... When Ovechkin scored 50 goals and 100 points it was immediate press coverage, Crosby's feats get immediate press coverage - but Phaneufs accomplishment still has garnered little press. Do not get me wrong there has been some - but very limited and mostly only local press.

 

[Nielson81]

Lots of dmen would? then why doesnt regher or another flames dman.....sure they use phaneuf on the PP but the kid has an absolute cannon for a shot.....clearly you dont put much into that and his shot really is top notch.

Oh I'm not taking anything away from his shot, has one of the hardest boomers I've ever seen, I'm just saying the following.

He has taken the 2nd most shots by any d-men in the league with 236
but is only 20th when it comes to shooting percentage, so really with the amount of chances he has had he should have even more.....

But ya, his shot is a rocket!

 

[Nielson81]

Lots of dmen would? then why doesnt regher or another flames dman.....notch.

I think this would explain why no other flames d-man has more then 7 goals.

Shots on goal.

Phanuef - 236
Ference - 107
Regehr - 87
Leopold - 84
Hamrlik - 81
Warrener - 38

So I guess what I'm saying is Phanuef is the only d-man the Flames run their offense through, if they need a point shot, he takes it. So that is why he has 20 goals.

 

[Letang fan 58]

I think this would explain why no other flames d-man has more then 7 goals.

Shots on goal.

Phanuef - 236
Ference - 107
Regehr - 87
Leopold - 84
Hamrlik - 81
Warrener - 38

So I guess what I'm saying is Phanuef is the only d-man the Flames run their offense through, if they need a point shot, he takes it. So that is why he has 20 goals.

Well I guess the point you miss is this........he is playing on one of the most defensive teams in the NHL........he is playing on a team that is or at least was for most of the season 3rd last in goals scored......he is a rookie Dman.....rookie Dmen rarely have much impact at all let alone anywhere near the impact he has had.
So he has taken 200+ shots......so what? they are from the point......how many other Dmen have 20 goals this season? I believe its 1 or 2.....ovechkin has taken a ridiculous amount of shots.....something like 450 or so.....are you telling me many players in the nhl would have scored 50 goals in their rookie season as forwards if that was the case?
If that is the case it just takes lots of shots to score why do you suppose nhl managers and coaches havent figured this out?......could it be because Phaneuf has a shot that less then 1% of the league has? I believe so.
I think it is ridiculous to think many dmen would have put up 20 goals in Phaneuf's shoes this season as a rookie or otherwise........don't forget he is a rookie......and he did start the season getting about 10 mins per game and not on the 1st pp unit.....it wasnt until well into the season after him playing ridiculously good that he got such opportunities.

What other coach in the NHL in recent years has named a rookie Dman on the team the best player on the team.......especially where a player like Iginla plays on the team or a goalie like Kiprusoff.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Lots of dmen would? then why doesnt regher or another flames dman.....sure they use phaneuf on the PP but the kid has an absolute cannon for a shot.....clearly you dont put much into that and his shot really is top notch.

the flames PP revolves around one timers for Phanuef. give any guy with a good slap shot that many attempts and he'll score alot of PP points.

 

[Nielson81]

Well I guess the point you miss is this........he is playing on one of the most defensive teams in the NHL........he is playing on a team that is or at least was for most of the season 3rd last in goals scored......he is a rookie Dman.....rookie Dmen rarely have much impact at all let alone anywhere near the impact he has had.
So he has taken 200+ shots......so what? they are from the point......how many other Dmen have 20 goals this season? .

Now I know you can't take away POWER PLAY points from a guys total, but they can exagerate things a little bit.

For example...Phanuef has 20 goals on the season....16 of them came on the power-play....4 goals at even strength is not that impressive.

In fact Ballard, Campoli, Seabrook, Meyer, Michalek, Juricna, Schubert all are rookie d-men who have also scored 4 goals at even strength.

Phanuef has 22 points at even strength...which is still good for a rookie blueliner.

I guess what I'm saying is the fact that he is the FOCAL point of the Flames power-play exagerates his season a little bit.

Still a great blueliner, one of the best, not taking that away from him, just pointing out that his stats aren't as impressive as some say.

 

[DFF]

the flames PP revolves around one timers for Phanuef. give any guy with a good slap shot that many attempts and he'll score alot of PP points.

have you ever stopped and think why it revolves around Phaneuf? because he is good...give him some credit there instead. Not too many teams revolve their offense around a rookie, especiall a rookie dman.

Washingtons offense revolves around Ovechkin. The Oilers offense revolved around Wayne Gretzky in the 80s. Does that make them less of a player?

I'd take it as a compliment instead.

 

[Sammy*]

I think it is ridiculous to think many dmen would have put up 20 goals in Phaneuf's shoes this season as a rookie or otherwise........don't forget he is a rookie......and he did start the season getting about 10 mins per game and not on the 1st pp unit.....it wasnt until well into the season after him playing ridiculously good that he got such opportunities.

First of all, the premise of this thread is ridiculous. He gets tons of press & to suggest he is overlooked in any way , well only the mightiest of Dion fanboys could think that.
Phaneuf has been on the #1 pp all year long. Hes also received almost twice as much pp time as the next closest d-man. You'd think a Phaneuf lover would know this much.
Btw, is Matt Carle still unknown?

.

 

[Pangu]

I don't see how Flames fans do not grasp that his goal total is exagerated by his role on the Flames. While its true that the Flames play a defensive game and that partially explains why he only has 4 ES goals, the 16 PP goals are not effected by that defensive play. I mean his shot % isn't that bad, but that type of goal scoring isn't all that impressive. Lots of teams use other types of PPs that would not give him that many opportunities.

 

[DFF]

I don't see how Flames fans do not grasp that his goal total is exagerated by his role on the Flames. .

same logic and I think Spezza is tottally overated. His points totally come from his role on the team and who he is playing with. The guy is useless if he plays with the Shean Donovans of the world.

 

[Sammy*]

same logic and I think Spezza is tottally overated. His points totally come from his role on the team and who he is playing with. The guy is useless if he plays with the Shean Donovans of the world.

I sure hope you dont believe this cause if you do, your credibility imo takes a bit of a hit.
"Useless" is a little more pejorative than "exaggerated".
As well, I think anyone who gets tons of pp time should have lots more points than those who get alot less.
Do you disagree?

 

[Pangu]

Spezza is only as good as his linemates. Of course, he does create the great offensive chances that any Marco Sturm could score on. That is considerably harder to replace than a big point shot. I am not saying that Phaneuf's 20 goals haven't helped the Flames offence, but I do think they are about the easiest 20 goals to replace. Its not like he making something out of nothing.

 

[DFF]

I sure hope you dont believe this cause if you do, your credibility imo takes a bit of a hit.
"Useless" is a little more pejorative than "exaggerated".
As well, I think anyone who gets tons of pp time should have lots more points than those who get alot less.
Do you disagree?

I dont believe in it, i just apply his logic.

yes i do believe if you get more PP time, you score more...but dont you agree that if someone gets more PP time and especially if the team revolves their offense around him, he must be good? That's the way it works for most great players.

Shooting down Phaneuf's accomplishment because the way his team plays is pretty lame IMO.