Peter Forsberg vs. Evgeni Malkin

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by James Gryphon, Mar 11, 2018.

?

Who ranks higher in hockey history?

  1. Fan of Forsberg's team(s) voting Forsberg

    10.5%
  2. Fan of Malkin's team(s) voting Forsberg

    1.0%
  3. Neutral fan voting Forsberg

    26.5%
  4. Fan of Malkin's team(s) voting Malkin

    11.5%
  5. Fan of Forsberg's team(s) voting Malkin

    2.5%
  6. Neutral fan voting Malkin

    48.0%
  1. Nocashstyle

    Nocashstyle Registered User

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    Besides the year he won, Forsberg did not finish top 3, or even top 5 in Hart voting any other season. Malkin already has 3 top 3s and is a safe betfor at least another top 5 this year.

    Forsberg was not unanimously considered a top 3 forward for any extended period of time relative to Malkin's current tenure...especially the mid to late 90s with Bure, Lindros, Selanne/Kariya, Yzerman still in their primes in addition to Jagr and Sackic.
     
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  2. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    You remember incorrectly because he was considered better than all of those additional forwards you mentioned because he was. Infact once Lemieux retired there was a book published that had coaches and GMs vote him the best player in the world, nevermind forward, and this was only halfway through the 1997-98 season.
     
  3. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    This is basically what I'm talking about. Dismissing Forsberg's place within the game simply by looking at scoring placements and Hart voting rather than what people actually thought, but not legitimately doing the same for Malkin. Malkin has not finished top 10 in scoring or received a single Hart vote for 5 seasons now, which is obviously likely to change this year. And yet, you claimed he's been a top 3 player for a decade which would have to include this time. I agree. But the reasons for it are what he's done when healthy and in the playoffs as well as what he's shown in his healthy seasons. He's earned the benefit of the doubt as a top player in the league. This was the same as Forsberg in the time frame I gave you and his Hart record is only lower because Malkin has more legitimately healthy seasons. Once Lemieux retired, Jagr, Lindros, Forsberg and Sakic were widely considered the best forwards in the game until Lindros fell off. No one really considered Selanne, Kariya, Bure, Naslund, etc were ever actually better players than Forsberg in the same way no one has actually believed Tavares, Stamkos, and Giroux were better than Malkin despite performing better at various times. You also have guys like Kucherov, McDavid, Thornton early in his career, St. Louis, Kane, Benn, etc. If you look at scoring finishes and Hart voting, Malkin's case as a top 3 player for a decade simply doesn't hold up. And yet in general that's been the consensus. Because most people would take a healthy Malkin over those guys because we know what he's capable of. And over this period his combined numbers stand out because he's stayed consistently near the top per game. Same with Forsberg in his period.

    From Forsberg's rookie year to 03-04, these are the PPG leaders:

    1. Lemieux: 1.69
    2. Jagr: 1.38
    3. Forsberg: 1.28
    4. Sakic: 1.21
    5. Lindros: 1.17
    6. Gretzky: 1.10
    7. Kariya: 1.07
    8. Palffy: 1.05
    9. Bure: 1.05
    10. Selanne: 1.03

    And from Malkin's rookie year until this season:

    1. Crosby: 1.30
    2. Malkin: 1.19
    3. Ovechkin: 1.10
    4. St. Louis: 1.03
    5. Kane: 1.01
    6. Datsyuk: 1.01
    7. Stamkos: 1.01
    8. Kovalchuk: 1.00
    9. Savard: 1.00
    10. Thornton: 0.98

    Outside of Lemieux who's an obvious outlier, Jagr, Forsberg and Sakic look and awful lot like Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  4. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    Please.

    Lindros wasn't considered better than Forsberg for the majority of his prime (could've been different if not for injuries...).

    Bure, Selanne, Kariya, Yzerman, were about as much better than Forsberg as Stamkos, Kane, Datsyuk, and Benn have been Malkin.
     
  5. M C D A V I D

    M C D A V I D Registered User

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    Forsberg is the most overrated player on HF. This should be Malkin by a mile, who might go down as a the second best Pen of all time.
     
  6. Ageless

    Ageless Registered User

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    Um no that would be Sid.
    Lemieux
    Crosby
    Malkin
    Jagr
     
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  7. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Lol
     
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  8. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    :rolleyes:
     
  9. BergyWho37

    BergyWho37 Only The Strong Will Survive (Never Give Up)

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    Forsberg is far from overrated I think some here forget how good he was.
    I've never seen Malkin raise he's level like Forsberg in the playoffs this guy was clutch

    Malkin clutch ya okay ..lol and I even like Malkin but this isn't close maybe if we were talking just season play.
     
  10. DrDangles

    DrDangles Registered User

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    If only there was a trophy they gave out based on playoff performance. I'm sure if what you're saying is true Forsberg would certainly have won it more times than Malkin due to his amazing clutch performances in the playoffs.
     
  11. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    Hypothetically, if such trophy would exist, it probably wouldn't be dependent on team performance in the slightest.
     
  12. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    That's weird because Malkin has the best playoff run of the last 25 years.
     
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  13. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    I think at their peaks, it’s Malkin....but it’s close. But I feel Forsberg was a bit more consistent as a top player, but when Malkin is on his game, he dominates. His resume speaks that.!It’s really about preference on who you think is better. Malkin is a bit better offensively and more dynamic while Forsberg was better defensively and more physical. All in all I feel Malkin would, he has had the better career.
     
  14. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I disagree. His opponents averaged 239.8 GA in 2009, while Forsberg's averaged 192 GA in 2002. If you're not taking that into consideration, you may as well compare 2005-06 raw offensive numbers with 2003-04 raw offensive numbers - only a 239.8 GA environment vs. 192 GA environment is actually an even bigger gap than 2005-06 vs. 2003-04.
     
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  15. PENSFAN234

    PENSFAN234 Registered User

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    Haha the meltdown is real.
     
  16. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    I would like to hear your choice.
     
  17. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Overall? Probably Malkin after this year. I have them both in that small gap between Trottier and Bossy in the #36-40 range.

    But if I had to take one at their very best in a game against a team of aliens for the fate of the Earth, I'd take Peter Forsberg. He's got those Rocket Richard eyes.
     
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  18. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    I was talking about the best playoff performance of the last 25 years, but thanks anyways ;)
     
  19. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Now if only he had the trophies to go with them...
     
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  20. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Oh, for that (best since 1994)? Jean-Sebastien Giguere. He was a national news story in 2003. CNN had a graphic for him ("Getting Giggy With It").

    I'd probably take Brian Leetch, Erik Karlsson, Joe Sakic, John Vanbiesbrouck, Jonathan Quick, Peter Forsberg, and Tim Thomas over Evgeni Malkin's 2009. Which isn't to say it's not a fantastic playoff run, but that I think it's less than what the raw number represents. It's like the 155-point Yzerman season of playoff runs - forever notable for its high water mark, but it benefited from a generous environment for offensive production.
     
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  21. MightySelanne8

    MightySelanne8 Registered User

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    This is a very very good comparison, and I honestly dont know who I should pick. In my mind if I went to gold medal game I think Fobba would be my pick, but Malkin is also a beast come clutch time.
     
  22. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    Great list, I can see an argument for Malkin over some of them, but I can’t dismiss any of the players you listed above. All of them are good choices.
     
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  23. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Here's a comparable offensive playoff run to Evgeni Malkin's 2009 from just the year after: Daniel Briere. On the surface, Evgeni Malkin's 36 in 24 is more impressive than Briere's 30 in 23. But the 2010 Flyers faced opponents who averaged 205.4 GA.

    If you adjust to the same environment (I used 200 GA), it's pretty close: 29.4 in 23 vs. 30.3 in 23.

    Daniel Briere (2010)

    GPPTSOpp-GAx AdjAdj PTS
    551911.045.24
    7102001.0010.00
    532230.902.69
    6122090.9611.48
    233029.41

    Evgeni Malkin (2009)

    GPPTSOpp-GAx AdjAdj PTS
    692380.847.56
    7102450.828.16
    492260.887.96
    782440.826.56
    243630.25

    Peter Forsberg (2002)

    GPPTSOpp-GAx AdjAdj PTS
    671901.057.37
    7121991.0112.06
    781871.078.56
    202727.98

    Peter Forsberg (1999)

    GPPTSOpp-GAx AdjAdj PTS
    681911.058.38
    692020.998.91
    771681.198.33
    192425.62


    So in terms of adjusted points (200 GA environment) per game:

    1.40 - Forsberg, 2002
    1.35 - Forsberg, 1999
    1.28 - Briere, 2010
    1.26 - Malkin, 2009

    I think Forsberg's 2002 is probably a more impressive offensive run than Malkin's 2009 - but both are certainly very impressive.
     
  24. LiasAndersson

    LiasAndersson Banned

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    Malkin.

    He's the perfect hockey player outside of being injured a bit too much.
     
  25. Luigi Lemieux

    Luigi Lemieux Registered User

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    Malkin put up 36 points with Talbot and Fedotenko on his wings. His performance blows Briere and Forsberg's out of the water.
     

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