GordieHowsUrBreath
Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
- Jun 16, 2016
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Pens Wings - 10 years later
- Thread starter GordieHowsUrBreath
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GMR
Registered User
Even though I wasn't at the arena or anything, I'm still a little ticked off at that Talbot goal at the end of game 5. Although the Wings won the series, that loss in triple-OT did stink up the Cup somewhat.
What did I think of the series beforehand? I honestly don't remember anything but relief. The Wings were flying through the playoffs winning nine games in a row after dropping games 3 and 4 against Nashville in the first round. Suddenly, they had a controversial goalie interference call against Holmstrom in game 4 of the WCF and that was the beginning of the Dallas comeback. They stumbled against the Stars in games 4 and 5 of that series. When they won game 6 in Dallas, I was relieved the choke job was averted.
It was no surprise to anyone these teams were in the Finals the following year. Detroit signed Hossa to get stronger and the Pens still had a developing Crosby and Malkin.
What did I think of the series beforehand? I honestly don't remember anything but relief. The Wings were flying through the playoffs winning nine games in a row after dropping games 3 and 4 against Nashville in the first round. Suddenly, they had a controversial goalie interference call against Holmstrom in game 4 of the WCF and that was the beginning of the Dallas comeback. They stumbled against the Stars in games 4 and 5 of that series. When they won game 6 in Dallas, I was relieved the choke job was averted.
It was no surprise to anyone these teams were in the Finals the following year. Detroit signed Hossa to get stronger and the Pens still had a developing Crosby and Malkin.
Big Penguins fan here. There was a lot of optimism going into the '08 Stanley Cup finals because the kids (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Letang, etc.) had finally arrived on the big stage. However, that Red Wings team was quite clearly the favourites, from what I remember. Detroit was just absolutely stacked and well-coached (Babcock, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Lidstrom, etc.). Never really felt like the Penguins had a chance, unless they played above their level or the Red Wings played below theirs. I just remember Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom giving Crosby fits that series.
At the time, it didn't seem like Detroit would ever decline because they'd been an elite team since the mid '90s. Everyone thought the Penguins would be an Eastern Conference finalist mainstay over the next decade, but after returning to the Finals and winning the following year in '09, they generally underperformed (mostly because of injuries and lukewarm goaltending) over the next 7 seasons before returning to the finals in 2016 (and '17). After they won the Cup in '09, I thought they'd definitely make at least another final or two over the next 5 seasons.
At the time, it didn't seem like Detroit would ever decline because they'd been an elite team since the mid '90s. Everyone thought the Penguins would be an Eastern Conference finalist mainstay over the next decade, but after returning to the Finals and winning the following year in '09, they generally underperformed (mostly because of injuries and lukewarm goaltending) over the next 7 seasons before returning to the finals in 2016 (and '17). After they won the Cup in '09, I thought they'd definitely make at least another final or two over the next 5 seasons.
MarkStone
Frankie Fryer
- Mar 12, 2016
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The Sykora OT winner for me was still delaying the inevitable. That was Detroit's year and the Wings weren't going to be denied. Actually was kind of annoying because I had a soft spot for the Wings before they went to the Eastern Conference and wanted them to celebrate at the Joe. That 08 team played beautiful possession hockey.
As for the next season I expected both teams to be back and indeed they were. I certainly thought Detroit was going to win though after once again going up 2-0 in the Finals.
As for the next season I expected both teams to be back and indeed they were. I certainly thought Detroit was going to win though after once again going up 2-0 in the Finals.
Yeah, nevermind the 36 to 19 shot differential in Game 1 and 34 to 22 shot differential in Game 2, it was those damn lucky bounces.
The talking point on this website following those two games was "it's like watching men vs boys."
Detroit dominated the puck like they did vs everybody that season.
Thenameless
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2014
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That's how I remember it. Detroit seemed much stronger in the first Cup, with a descriptor of "men vs boys" being appropriate. Even the following year, Detroit seemed like the stronger team, but the Pens and in particular Malkin played above their heads. Being more of a Penguins fan, I was relieved to see them win. And like most, I did not expect that it would take them so many years to get back to the Cup.
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
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I will never forgive Hudler for that four minute high-sticking penalty in game 5.
Also still peeved off at Franzen for his giveaway with 30 seconds left to lead to the game tying goal after the Wings had a story book series ending period leading up to that point.
Also still peeved off at Franzen for his giveaway with 30 seconds left to lead to the game tying goal after the Wings had a story book series ending period leading up to that point.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Wings totally crushed them in 08. 09 turn on Game 4 when I’d argue you had a combination of the Pens coming together and the Wings finally succumbing to their injuries.
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
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As a Detroit fan I was very confident in 2008. Detroit was playing very good hockey, had a better roster than Pittsburgh and I thought that Fleury was a choker dating from his time in junior. In fact, I jokingly predicted that he would fall on his face on the way to the ice for the first game, so when he actually did it there were a lot of laughs where I was. It felt more like a five game series, mainly because Malkin was inexplicably bad in the finals.
GordieHowsUrBreath
Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
- Jun 16, 2016
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malkin was hurt or sick, forget which one
i forgot about fleury falling but now i remember when it happened, i didn't feel too confident
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
I expected Detroit to easily win that series to be honest. They were the more experienced group, the Penguins had a nice run but they were still growing as a team. I was expecting a sweep and was satisfied with 6 games.
I honestly barely remember the first 4 games of the series other than Detroit easily won the first two games. Their 2nd and 3rd lines were better than several teams top line. I don't think I've ever seen a team grit and grind their way to victory quite like that years Red Wings squad. They struck me as the NHLs version of that decades Detroit Pistons (fitting the Detroit connection), no flash all grit. Looking back at it, I kind of wished I appreciated that series and the one after better. One of my friends was a Wings fan and was cool, but I also had a couple of unpleasant experiences with both Wings and Penguins fans spanning those two series and it turned me off both teams.
The next season I remember watching Detroit a few times early and it looked like they were slowly being figured out more and more, still damn good though. Pittsburgh I think I had them winning the Cup, which they did. Think I had Detroit losing to San Jose in the Conference final, whoops.
It took the Penguins 8 years but I thought they were a dynasty in the making after 2009. Detroit declined slower than I thought, they were clearly not the same team after that but they were still good enough to make noise in the playoffs.
I honestly barely remember the first 4 games of the series other than Detroit easily won the first two games. Their 2nd and 3rd lines were better than several teams top line. I don't think I've ever seen a team grit and grind their way to victory quite like that years Red Wings squad. They struck me as the NHLs version of that decades Detroit Pistons (fitting the Detroit connection), no flash all grit. Looking back at it, I kind of wished I appreciated that series and the one after better. One of my friends was a Wings fan and was cool, but I also had a couple of unpleasant experiences with both Wings and Penguins fans spanning those two series and it turned me off both teams.
The next season I remember watching Detroit a few times early and it looked like they were slowly being figured out more and more, still damn good though. Pittsburgh I think I had them winning the Cup, which they did. Think I had Detroit losing to San Jose in the Conference final, whoops.
It took the Penguins 8 years but I thought they were a dynasty in the making after 2009. Detroit declined slower than I thought, they were clearly not the same team after that but they were still good enough to make noise in the playoffs.
Hockeyholic
Registered User
Hockeyholic
Registered User
Red Wings up 2-1 in the series. 2-1 in game 4. They give up the short handed goal to Staal. Turning point in series.
I compare the 83 & 84 SCF between the Oilers & Isles to the 08 & 09 series between Pittsburgh & Detroit: the younger, inexperienced teams ( Oilers & Pens) needed to learn to lose before winning.
I compare the 83 & 84 SCF between the Oilers & Isles to the 08 & 09 series between Pittsburgh & Detroit: the younger, inexperienced teams ( Oilers & Pens) needed to learn to lose before winning.
alko
Registered User
What all should be done, that also today the Red Wings will be still at the top. What were the crucial decisions, that ruined this team?
I remember that despite being down 2 games to none again, it was really a toss-up between the two teams which was radically different from '08. The Pens were outshot badly in Games 1 and 2 in '08; they outshot the Wings in 2009 in Games 1 and 2. I think that gave the Pens a lot of confidence for the rest of the series. It was not surprise that the Pens came back strong in Games 3 and 4 although a betting man would have taken the Wings in Game 7.
I'm a fan of Crosby so it seems obvious for me to say I'm happy Pittsburgh won in 2009. But I still feel it's a very good story overall.
Detroit - powerhouse for past 12 years who won cup in 2008, with the younger Pens falling short. Pens coming back the next year, and taking it to the limit till they won. It just makes for a nice story, with the young team winning the rematch.
Kind of similar to how Oilers lost to NYI, but then beat them the next year in 84. Somehow it maybe feels a bit less special for Oilers if in 84 NYI stumbles early and misses the final. And it also feels a bit underwhelming if NYI beats Oilers again, instead of passing the torch.
Datsyukian Deke
The Captain is Home!!
Two words...Ken Holland.
09 series still bugs me how Datsyuk didn't even play until game 5. Definitely would liked to have seen how the series might have gone had he been healthy for those first 4 games.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I thought they had a chance, but it was a final with a really obvious youth-vs-experience matchup, and that's always going to favor experience unless there's some huge talent gap.
Probably the biggest thing that tilted popular perception in the Wings' favor, is that Chris Osgood was inexplicably fantastic in the first three rounds. Fleury had also been very very good as well, but goaltending was usually something you could point to as a weakness during Detroit's ~15 year run of good teams. It was a lot harder to see a path to victory for the Pens when you had Osgood back there playing red-hot behind a Lidstrom/Kronwall/Rafalski led defense.
The first two games were so one-sided that it was hard to imagine a comeback, but at the same time if you've seen enough playoff hockey you know that it's not over at 2-0. If anything, that's a trap situation. Pens had a tall hill to climb, but they were very much in it until the end.
Exactly what happened. Detroit was routinely a good team and the Pens were clearly the next hot thing even if they didn't have a lot of "polish" just yet.
Pretty much, yes. That was probably the point of maximum hype about the Red Wings being infallible in the draft and able to just churn out HOF'ers at will to replace their aging veterans. That bugged me at the time, because you could very easily tell that Kronwall was more of a highlight player than an actual replacement for Lidstrom; that they weren't replacing that 3rd/4th line depth that had sustained them for so long; that it had already been several years since they had drafted a real impact player. It took a little longer for them to fall off than I expected (Babcock coached the living hell out of that team as they consistently shed talent) but it was already clear that they were gradually reaching the other side of the hill.
Pens, you already knew Crosby and Malkin were franchise players. You knew a finals run was going to set them up for the next step. Probably the thing that surprises me most since then is that they had such a rough go of it in the playoffs after 2009.
Pittsburgh gave Detroit a good series in that '08 Final, and I was confident multiple Cups were on the way for the Pens. It was the classic case of a young team not quite ready to take that next step. Ironically, Hossa leaving to join the Wings served as additional motivation for those '09 Penguins.
Detroit was just better in 08.
Not a Wings fan, but even I was upset when Scuderi saved Game 6 in 09 by falling on the puck in the crease. Which should ALWAYS be a penalty shot.
Not a Wings fan, but even I was upset when Scuderi saved Game 6 in 09 by falling on the puck in the crease. Which should ALWAYS be a penalty shot.
GMR
Registered User
The better question is, if the Pens also failed to win the Cup in 2009, how long would it take them to return? Would they gave taken more chances in free agency and trades, to give Crosby his first Cup? It's hard to imagine Crosby going without a Cup until 2016. Then again, injuries had so much to do with that gap between Finals appearances.
The Wings' demise was predicted from about 2004 to 2013. They were contenders probably up until 2010 or so, and managed to sneak into a few playoffs before their run ended. After 2010, it was obvious the run was finally over.
The Wings' demise was predicted from about 2004 to 2013. They were contenders probably up until 2010 or so, and managed to sneak into a few playoffs before their run ended. After 2010, it was obvious the run was finally over.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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Yeah Malkin didn't have a point until Game 5. He was battling something, I can't remember. It can be a talking point anytime you hear someone make an excuse about the Wings' injuries in 2009, that the Pens had some issues too. Although to be honest, I have never heard these complaints on this board about 2009 since the Pens repeated last year without Letang.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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I think 2008 was great. These were the best two teams in hockey, bar none. What a star studded final. I just wish the Pens didn't look so green in Games 1 and 2. That was really controlling hockey they played (the Wings) in those games. Yeah Osgood got the shutout in both games, but so could have Andre Racicot. I just think the Pens had that 1983 Oilers look to them, not QUITE ready. I was glad to see these two meet up again the following year, and I expected it too.
I think the idea was that the Pens with their core would win Cups very soon. They did, in 2009, but I think the idea was they would win a few right after that, not until 2016 and 2017. Either way 2008 was a great Cup final to watch once the Pens came around and actually made a series out of it. That Talbot goal to tie it up had to be heartbreaking, even though the Wings won the next game. I mean, you're on home ice, 30 seconds to go, you lose the lead and then lose in overtime. That hurts. Who doesn't want to win at home? But even in Game 6 it was right down to the wire, so the series came around after those lopsided first two games.
I think the idea was that the Pens with their core would win Cups very soon. They did, in 2009, but I think the idea was they would win a few right after that, not until 2016 and 2017. Either way 2008 was a great Cup final to watch once the Pens came around and actually made a series out of it. That Talbot goal to tie it up had to be heartbreaking, even though the Wings won the next game. I mean, you're on home ice, 30 seconds to go, you lose the lead and then lose in overtime. That hurts. Who doesn't want to win at home? But even in Game 6 it was right down to the wire, so the series came around after those lopsided first two games.
Sentinel
Registered User
All I know is that had Datsyuk and Lidstrom been fully healthy in 09, the Pens' first Cup would have to wait a few years. I don't think Pens had a chance against Chicago, Boston, and LA.
