Post-Game Talk: Pens/Caps: Pens crush the Caps spirits.... again.

[bambamcam4ever]

Can anyone tell if Sheary touched the 3rd goal? It looked like it may have been knocked in off Orpik's stick, upon which Crosby would pick up an assist.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Who was the last guy they had who was reliable for those greasy sort of goals? Knuble? I think it's Knuble, and he was old as Hell when they had him. Laich did, but he probably washed up before Knuble did, even if he hung around for a few more seasons (not contributing).

I guess Williams can, but he's more of a mid range shooter who does a little bit of everything on the side. And he's gone.

That's a good observation. The Capitals have collected players who score on particular types of plays that are less commonly available in the playoffs than the "weird bounce" or "whack at the pads" stuff. Before and after the Neal era, Pens have generally had guys who specialize in scoring ugly. Even our star centers are happy to poke at loose pucks or jam it under a goalie's pads, if that's the only play (Letang, too).

I have my moments.

It just seems to be a recurring theme with the Caps. Most of the games where they're "on" and really dominating, it's usually because the fancy play is working for them and they're going all Harlem Globetrotter. The games when teams are playing them tight and those East-West passes aren't there, and they need to score some greasy goals, they seem to get shut down.

That team is crying for a guy like Hornqvist.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Can anyone tell if Sheary touched the 3rd goal? It looked like it may have been knocked in off Orpik's stick, upon which Crosby would pick up an assist.

NHL site has Sheary with the goal. So unless it gets changed overnight, I doubt Sid gets an assist added.

 

[meechimindoh]

My objections are PP1 play, Kessel effort and 4th line. Other than that, Pens are fine.
When PP1 has the puck they slow down the play and stand around too much. Most of the times only two players are moving and in a way that rarely requires PK to adapt to new shooting or passing lanes. That makes them predictable and easy to defend. More hustle, more movement and increased tempo of passes will make PK less aggressive. That should provide more opportunities.
PP2 guys work their asses off and it pays off.
I know that Pens will never have the same 4th line as we had last couple of years, at least not without Cullen quality type of player. But I do think that for playoff success they will have to make some changes to the 4th line. I am still evaluating Reaves, but it sure looks that he has to pick up his speed if he wants to be useful.
Kessel is sometimes really hard to watch during the regular season.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Of course it's cold, it's German.

Yep, quote of the night. Damn Germans. Must have seen that commercial 20 times last night.

 

[Jyssy]

Report on Määttä? He's scoring but other than that? Finally had a healthy offseason.

 

[gdsmack267]

+to Dumo as well. Very solid tonight.

His skating is so underrated for his size.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Report on Määttä? He's scoring but other than that? Finally had a healthy offseason.

Looks confident thats for sure. Skating better, still not fast but better.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Can anyone tell if Sheary touched the 3rd goal? It looked like it may have been knocked in off Orpik's stick, upon which Crosby would pick up an assist.

It's definitely Sheary's goal.

 

[Whakahere]

Report on Määttä? He's scoring but other than that? Finally had a healthy offseason.

Looks much better than last season. In the play more and shooting the puck. He isn't standing out for getting burnt in every game or struggling to get body position when battling. The season is still early but so far he passed the eye test. I no longer want him gone like I did earlier.

 

[UnrealMachine]

They looked like the 15-16 pens the first 2 periods. 3rd was a little rough but caps are a good team there's gonna be push back.

Murray played really well but that glove hand is always gonna give me anxiety. Like how is it so much worse than every other part of his game? Just bizarre to me.

Watched on my phone with no sound at work. Didn't realize tom wilson wasn't in. Can't wait til reaves beats his ass.

Because it's not? This is really just a case of you projecting your own cognitive biases into your analysis. According to NHL.com Murray gave up 38 goals via high glove vs 36 high blocker last season. He played the shooter just fine last night and was rather unlucky that the puck found a small opening between his glove & body. A goalie can't cover 100% of the open net on most shots and statistically that goal doesn't occur very often, which is why he remained an elite goaltender last season despite this (mis)perceived "weakness".

 

[Pens x]

Solid game by the Pens. It's always great to get the W against the Caps.

If we can just land a respectable 3C and play McKegg at 4C, this will be a tough team to beat.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Who was the last guy they had who was reliable for those greasy sort of goals? Knuble? I think it's Knuble, and he was old as Hell when they had him. Laich did, but he probably washed up before Knuble did, even if he hung around for a few more seasons (not contributing).

I guess Williams can, but he's more of a mid range shooter who does a little bit of everything on the side. And he's gone.

That's a good observation. The Capitals have collected players who score on particular types of plays that are less commonly available in the playoffs than the "weird bounce" or "whack at the pads" stuff. Before and after the Neal era, Pens have generally had guys who specialize in scoring ugly. Even our star centers are happy to poke at loose pucks or jam it under a goalie's pads, if that's the only play (Letang, too).

Ha I was just thinking "Yeah not since Knuble basically". They rarely score greasy goals at least that I've seen. Ovy's goal was fairly unusual.

I think both teams played pretty well though. Good game all around. Penguins played the better overall game but AO seemed to have a ton of shots attempted and the Caps really turned it on the last few mins.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's definitely Sheary's goal.

Yup. He definitely tipped it in.

 

[PensandCaps]

So i saw that Sullivan broke up Guentzel and Sid. And went with Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist, wonder if that'll still be the combo tonite. If so, I'd give Malkin, Guenztel and Rust and put Kessel with McKegg and Hagelin.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

So i saw that Sullivan broke up Guentzel and Sid. And went with Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist, wonder if that'll still be the combo tonite. If so, I'd give Malkin, Guenztel and Rust and put Kessel with McKegg and Hagelin.

I'd flip Jake and Sheary
Last year Geno basically ignored Guentzel.

Jake- Sid- Horny
Sheary - Malkin- Rust
Hags- McKegg- Kessel

Now thats DEPTH and a scary 3 lines

 

[madinsomniac]

Because it's not? This is really just a case of you projecting your own cognitive biases into your analysis. According to NHL.com Murray gave up 38 goals via high glove vs 36 high blocker last season. He played the shooter just fine last night and was rather unlucky that the puck found a small opening between his glove & body. A goalie can't cover 100% of the open net on most shots and statistically that goal doesn't occur very often, which is why he remained an elite goaltender last season despite this (mis)perceived "weakness".

While murray doesn't have a super mitt, he isn't bad there... its just he takes up so much of the lowernet thats the one spot teams are going to target... when a goalie plays well enough teams start always trying to go high glove side it usually means they have few fundamental weaknesses...

 

[PensandCaps]

I'd flip Jake and Sheary
Last year Geno basically ignored Guentzel.

Jake- Sid- Horny
Sheary - Malkin- Rust
Hags- McKegg- Kessel

Now thats DEPTH and a scary 3 lines

Guentzel and Malkin worked really well. I don't see Sheary and Malkin clicking.

 

[Clare2904]

Had to go look again to be sure and yes, Sheary fell over when he scored

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I have my moments.

It just seems to be a recurring theme with the Caps. Most of the games where they're "on" and really dominating, it's usually because the fancy play is working for them and they're going all Harlem Globetrotter. The games when teams are playing them tight and those East-West passes aren't there, and they need to score some greasy goals, they seem to get shut down.

That team is crying for a guy like Hornqvist.

Man, that team needs a lot more than Hornqvist. They need a transplant. They are dead in the water.

Do you remember a moment last night where you actually felt like we would lose the game? The Pens thoroughly enjoy going into Washington, and the look of confidence they have in that building is striking to me.

If I were MacLellan, I'd fire Trotz today. Or maybe Leonsis should fire MacLellan. Or he should make a shakeup trade. Whatever it is they THINK they are doing to try to win their first Stanley Cup, it is never going to work as long as Pittsburgh is in the way. Washington has to basically hope (more like pray) that somebody else knocks off the Penguins, and then try to knock off the team that knocked us out. The problem is everybody in the division has (historically) had their number.

Last night, the game was played at the Capitals' pace in my humble opinion. We did a lot of checking last night. Not a lot of high-flying offense. We played more the way we used to play under Bylsma. And yet, at no time did we ever appear to be in any danger to lose. If I were a Capitals fan, I would just not want to keep this sham going. I'd want some kind of a statement that this is never going to work.

Analytics will never truly be able to display the type of psychological barrier the Capitals now face. We beat them last spring without our No. 1 goaltender, when they still had Justin Williams, Karl Alzner, Nate Schmidt and Kevin Shattenkirk in the lineup. Now? They have Alex Chiasson, Aaron Ness, Christian Djoos and Taylor Chorney. Furthermore, we beat them when Ovechkin plays with Backstrom; we beat them when Ovechkin plays with Kuznetsov; we beat them when Ovechkin scores; we beat them when he does not. And what about Holtby? Remember when Fleury could not play in Montreal? He used to really struggle with the mental side of the game whenever he played at the Bell Centre. Well, Holtby's situation seems even worse. He does not surrender many goals against us, he just surrenders badly-timed goals and is constantly shaking his head after. Dude needs a shrink.

Anyway, the Caps will use Ovechkin's revival as the excuse to keep soldiering on but it is a fruitless exercise. The organization is damaged beyond repair. This system of theirs isn't working. Trotz is trying to implement the best of who the Caps were under Boudreau, and the best of who they were under Hunter, all into one. It can't be done. You can't be a little bit pregnant. Either you are or you're not. They have no identity, they seem to be caught between two identities actually (what Ovechkin is all about, and what Trotz is all about). It's a mess. And honestly, at this point regular-season success is what's expected. It has never helped them. I feel for Ovechkin because he is the modern-day Marcel Dionne. He is never going to sniff a championship until his current contract is up (3 more years).


Anyway, where are all the doomsayers at? Reaves was going to destroy our identity! We can't go into the season without a No. 3 center! Yada yada yada.

We will probably lose tonight, but that's because we have no backup goaltender. That is the main issue right now. The third line of Sheary-McKegg-Hornqvist looked promising last night. Not sure why Sully changed it up in the third period, but I expect that trio to be back together tonight in Tampa.

Tonight's game should be significantly more appealing to the eye. TB-Pit games are usually epic.

 

[Coastal Kev]

So i saw that Sullivan broke up Guentzel and Sid. And went with Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist, wonder if that'll still be the combo tonite. If so, I'd give Malkin, Guenztel and Rust and put Kessel with McKegg and Hagelin.

I'm more interested in the long term for this season. I firmly believe adding youth to this lineup, along with a competent 3C, will ignite us for 3rd straight run at the cup. If we add Archie, Sprong and ZAR to our lineup with a 3C, who goes?

I originally thought Sheary would be gone, but when you see him get chances last night, I'm not so sure. Rust was another candidate, but there are times when he looks like he might be our best wing on the ice. Kessel? No one believes he's getting shipped this season. But if they are falling in love with Rust and Sheary the way I am, who knows if Phil could on the block. Horny makes some sense due to age and contract status, but games like last night nuke any thought of dumping him.
Hags brings a tempo to the team that they like.


This quest for a 3C is very difficult for JR, not because of who they want, more so who they will let go. Thinking through all of the scenarios, I would not be surprised if the 3C comes from trading our best prospects. I shudder at the thought of losing Sprong but I can't pinpoint who else they would be willing to trade.

My first bet is Sheary, but I'm starting to think Sprong is their second option. Yikes

 

[PensandCaps]

I'm more interested in the long term for this season. I firmly believe adding youth to this lineup, along with a competent 3C, will ignite us for 3rd straight run at the cup. If we add Archie, Sprong and ZAR to our lineup with a 3C, who goes?

I originally thought Sheary would be gone, but when you see him get chances last night, I'm not so sure. Rust was another candidate, but there are times when he looks like he might be our best wing on the ice. Kessel? No one believes he's getting shipped this season. But if they are falling in love with Rust and Sheary the way I am, who knows if Phil could on the block. Horny makes some sense due to age and contract status, but games like last night nuke any thought of dumping him.
Hags brings a tempo to the team that they like.


This quest for a 3C is very difficult for JR, not because of who they want, more so who they will let go. Thinking through all of the scenarios, I would not be surprised if the 3C comes from trading our best prospects. I shudder at the thought of losing Sprong but I can't pinpoint who else they would be willing to trade.

My first bet is Sheary, but I'm starting to think Sprong is their second option. Yikes

Sprong would be my second choice too. A solid 3C helps us more than Sprong does. Go all in for a three peat. Maybe even deal both Sheary and Sprong for a high high end 3C. (Duchene)

If the ask is Sprong+ Sheary for Duchene, I'd probably do it. That gives us a real solid chance at 4 in a row. Also Duchene is playing great.

 

[The GM]

Who was the last guy they had who was reliable for those greasy sort of goals? Knuble? I think it's Knuble, and he was old as Hell when they had him. Laich did, but he probably washed up before Knuble did, even if he hung around for a few more seasons (not contributing).

I guess Williams can, but he's more of a mid range shooter who does a little bit of everything on the side. And he's gone.

That's a good observation. The Capitals have collected players who score on particular types of plays that are less commonly available in the playoffs than the "weird bounce" or "whack at the pads" stuff. Before and after the Neal era, Pens have generally had guys who specialize in scoring ugly. Even our star centers are happy to poke at loose pucks or jam it under a goalie's pads, if that's the only play (Letang, too).

Everyone should always consider going to the pickle stabber to score

 

[Andy99]

I'd flip Jake and Sheary
Last year Geno basically ignored Guentzel.

Jake- Sid- Horny
Sheary - Malkin- Rust
Hags- McKegg- Kessel

Now thats DEPTH and a scary 3 lines

Having watched Geno and Phil for 4 games now, I'm in favor of splitting them up however the lines work out. But I think Sheary-Horny, Hags-Kessel and Jake-Rust work well as pairs regardless of the center. Geno has to get going here and Phil is not helping him out. McKegg and Phil is worth trying out because he and Hags can do the dirty work on the line to get Phil the puck. Can't be any worse than G and Phil right now, especially with the dearth of offense coming from the fourth line....

 

[Shady Machine]

I think part of it is that Sheary is just a better LW than RW. And I think he works better with a guy like Hornqvist on the other side instead of Guentzel.

I agree with that. Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary is fun in a globe trotter kind of way when it works, but Sheary tends to look lost defensively on the right side and is less effective overall with Jake as the other winger. Horny causes so much havoc that it allows Sheary more space.

I really like the top 9 winger combos of Guentzel-Rust, Hagelin-Kessel, and Sheary-Hornqvist. All of them can be your top line wingers or your 3rd line depending on the night.

We just need a better 3C to push McKegg down and that 3C needs to be a PP and PK guy so we can push Rowney or Kuhn out of the lineup (ideally Reaves, but we know that isn't happening).