Post-Game Talk: Pens 5, Rangers 4 (OT): A Tale of Two Penguins Teams

[WayneSid9987]

Um we are bleeding goals because our defensive system that we have won with relies heavily on shotblocking and challenging shooting lanes and forwards hustling in the defensive zone... all of tgat is high energy, high injury risk stuff best suited later in the season and playoffs...

The last two years we have had such issues... remember Fluery being blamed for bleeding goals last first half? Or us overcommitting to defense the year before under johnson and looking tired and offensively inept....?

Its the first half .... we aren't missing the playoffs... this isn't a finalized roster... it will be fine

This is exactly it. The D is made up for a 5-man high pressure attack that smothers teams and can turn pucks up quickly. At it's best it's 4 lines, 6-D all coming together to press offensively like the '16 Cup team.

The main thing to look at if you wanna know if this team is doing well defensively is the number of high danger shots they give up, not necessarily the total # of shots.

 

[Peat]

Not advocating. I was one of the main defenders of Maatta on here the past two years.

I just understand the thought process in trading him. Obviously it is a short sample size, but we are paying twenty million to our top four and bleeeeeeeeeding goals. Part of that is losing Bones and Cullen, part of that is our top four being really good puck movers, but not necessarily the most sound defensive unit.

McKegg & Rowney have a higher combined +/- than Bonino & Cullen over the first 7 games, and a higher PK percentage despite being on the PK more often. Losing Bonino & Cullen isn't why we're bleeding goals.

And I don't think its the top 4 either, although I don't have such an easy argument against it.

A quick look at the stats reveal some more obvious culprits for why we're bleeding goals. Sid's 16 PIMs and -3 is the real eye catching one. His line has been bad defensively and Geno's hasn't been much better. Also pretty obvious which defensive pairing has been giving it up for free too. And there's Niemi's numbers on top of it.

Although, of course, bleeding goals is a bit of an exaggeration. Subtract the aberration vs Chicago and you've got a team that's middle of the road for goals conceded in the league so far, which isn't too bad for a team that will insist on giving up more PPs than any other team in the league.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Regarding the d-zone - it's hard work. It comes with a crap load of moving your feet, supporting, stopping/starting, etc. Those shifts suck. It's hard work. They'll figure it out when it matters but I believe the holes you are seeing come with sometimes trying to make a lazier play because making the strong/smart one is a lot of work at times. So you see Sid fling a puck in a dangerous area because it's not worth taking a hit at this time in the season to chip a puck out. We are also doing a lot of standing/waiting instead of pressuring the right way.

Oh well. It's October. The dog days of the season are still to come. More lazy play WILL happen.

Exactly.

One of my pet peeves the last few years is guys trying to defend while out of position by "fishing" with their sticks. The slashing crackdown has made that even more costly this year. We're going to have to make a habit out of moving our feet and stopping/starting to keep better positioning. It should pay off in the long run, but as Sully would say, it's a process.

 

[Son Goku]

What a goal by Sid.

 

[harmonica]

The team is playing so loose compared to what we have seen in the last two playoff runs. While last year wasn't as pretty as the first, outside of the transition, the team was still fairly tight.

I wonder if this is just what we will have to get accustomed to during the season. I love when Geno looks awful and still gets 4 points(and a fight that was called roughing).

playoff Penguins = turn on the switch

 

[Riptide]

I just understand the thought process in trading him. Obviously it is a short sample size, but we are paying twenty million to our top four and bleeeeeeeeeding goals. Part of that is losing Bones and Cullen, part of that is our top four being really good puck movers, but not necessarily the most sound defensive unit.

Here were the forward groups on the ice lastnight for the ES goals.
Goals (ES):
Malkin, Kuhnhackl, Rowney: 1
Crosby, Guentzel, Sheary: 1

Now while Kuhnhackl and Rowney might not be the best wingers... Are you really going to argue that you'd rather have Bonino or Cullen in the offensive end then Malkin? Common.

 

[Captain Hook]

Crazy game. One of those games that probably had both teams and their fans annoyed at different times. Unbelievable blunders by the Rangers on our final two goals.

 

[REAVES]

Couple of points

Rust - was excellent tonight. Drove the net hard. Back checked for the two floaters. Points don't tell the whole story. Rust is the man.

Dumo - worst game I have seen him play. The game was in NY but Dumo was in Biddeford Maine.

Kegger is fine - he just has bad teeth and a goofy look , so HF don't like him. He will be great 4th line center for us.

Current 4th line is ass. Try Wilson at Center. Archie Wilson Sprong . Let Crosby center Archie and Sprong a few shifts a period. Problem solved till we get a real 3 rd line center.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I like this guy too but come on....after 13 days, you'd have to say 1) njd deserves more love and should be in the top four, and 2) wash should be dropped out of playoff contention and 3) no way the Pens as they currently are playing are winning the Presidents Trophy. Have to give the Metro lead at this point to CBJ. Just killing it so far.
Keep it real Micah....

Yeah, can't take much of it seriously after only a couple of weeks.

He has no one over 100 projected points as well if you noticed.

I only linked it for fun.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kevin Shattenkirk is a good player that makes good decisions, many people are saying he makes the best decisions.

Top people. The very best.

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Oh and one thing about the Rangers, who knew Rick Nash can still play like that? Even though he didn't score he looked unstoppable several times.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Um we are bleeding goals because our defensive system that we have won with relies heavily on shotblocking and challenging shooting lanes and forwards hustling in the defensive zone... all of tgat is high energy, high injury risk stuff best suited later in the season and playoffs...

The last two years we have had such issues... remember Fluery being blamed for bleeding goals last first half? Or us overcommitting to defense the year before under johnson and looking tired and offensively inept....?

Its the first half .... we aren't missing the playoffs... this isn't a finalized roster... it will be fine

I know it's always a risk thinking that a team will turn it on in the post-season, but I'd like to just take a second and point out that the last two years have seen us do exactly that- flip a switch. I'm not saying we will 100% do that this year, just that we've looked pretty lackluster the past two years in the beginning of the season, and we've found another gear under Sullivan in the post-season.

Again, no harm in thinking there's things to fix on the roster or with the system or execution. That's fine.

 

[ColePens]

^^ And as many people have already noted, I'd rather not have anyone except Cole/Kuhn/Rowney blocking shots. Don't even think about getting injured. Let Murray take on the shots. When it comes down to playoffs, all-in shot blocking. But don't do it now.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yup. Who was stunned with a shot block in the third period last night? Easily could have been an injury as well as Malkin stupidly fighting.

Relax.

Take it easy.

Score a lot.

Pens are the most injured team year in and year out since Crosby came into the league. Wouldn't it be nice not to have that dubious honor for one year?

 

[Syrinx]

Here's a streamable of the Crosby goal:

 

[PensandCaps]

Lol Niemi has more points than Dumo.

I love Dumo, but man he needs to start putting up points, how hasn't he gotten a lucky 2nd assist yet?

 

[Andy99]

Yup. Who was stunned with a shot block in the third period last night? Easily could have been an injury as well as Malkin stupidly fighting.

Relax.

Take it easy.

Score a lot.

Pens are the most injured team year in and year out since Crosby came into the league. Wouldn't it be nice not to have that dubious honor for one year?

Can't score if you're not engaged in the game. Can't be engaged if you don't have the emotions/desire going. That's why the "switch" theory for the end of the year doesn't really work. Players have to find the switch in each game or they will not pull out enough wins necessary to get to the playoffs, since there are so many good teams who will work hard each game to beat the Pens.

There needs to be a fine line reached in RS between moving feet and expending enough energy to win and not trying too hard that they burn out or risk injury. They're still trying to find that line and it's been ugly

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not regretting not signing him. It is just funny to see the praise McKegg gets when he is essentially at best a fourth line center who has really no impact on the game besides skating around and looking fast and being the number four on the PK. Much like people viewed Desharnais.

He's a nothing player and the sooner this team can push him to the role of a 13th forward the sooner we will start actually having some type of dominance from that 3rd line.

Nobody viewed Desharnais as a PKer because he simply doesn't PK, and that's an asset of note for a 4th liner. He's also tiny, more expensive than McKegg, and clearly past his prime.

The lesson to be learned here isn't that people are silly for praising McKegg, it's that there was no need for Desharnais whatsoever because we could pick up a better, younger, cheaper, more versatile player off the scrapheap.

And pixies is bringing up such a stupid and moot point. The idea was to get Cullen to re-sign. The guy who killed it on our 4th line for 2 straight years. HE was our goal. It was not between McKegg and Desharnais. Goodness gracious. He now has 3 points on the season with his 2 pt game tonight, right? McKegg has the SAME exact stat line. They both have 3 pts in 7 games. But that also is not the point. We wanted Cully back and a legit 3C.

Ahhh who cares? Why do I even bring it up? It's logical and that means it will be ignored.

QFT.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Also, not sure if anyone mentioned it in here yet, but:

Maatta '16-'17
55 games, 1 goal, 6 assists

Maatta '17-'18
7 games, 2 goals, 5 assists

 

[ColePens]

Lol Niemi has more points than Dumo.

I love Dumo, but man he needs to start putting up points, how hasn't he gotten a lucky 2nd assist yet?

Never understood this line of thinking. I don't care if Dumo ends with 5 total points as long as he defends like he does in the playoffs. He's no slouch. He's making great passes and is a shut down guy to be paired w/ Letang. Both struggled early on but I completely believe in that as a top pairing.

 

[PensandCaps]

Never understood this line of thinking. I don't care if Dumo ends with 5 total points as long as he defends like he does in the playoffs. He's no slouch. He's making great passes and is a shut down guy to be paired w/ Letang. Both struggled early on but I completely believe in that as a top pairing.

Me too. Just want a little more offense out of him. 20 points. It's not like he doesn't have the offensive skills to do so...decent skater and a good passer. I don't get why his offensive stats are so awful, because when you watch him, he doesn't look like a 15 point Dman.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Here's a streamable of the Crosby goal:

Crosby is a smart guy. Shattenkirk isn't.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Can't score if you're not engaged in the game. Can't be engaged if you don't have the emotions/desire going. That's why the "switch" theory for the end of the year doesn't really work. Players have to find the switch in each game or they will not pull out enough wins necessary to get to the playoffs, since there are so many good teams who will work hard each game to beat the Pens.

There needs to be a fine line reached in RS between moving feet and expending enough energy to win and not trying too hard that they burn out or risk injury. They're still trying to find that line and it's been ugly

The Pens have 9 of a possible 14 points. While looking disinterested and as you say 'ugly' all season. Despite being an incomplete team still looking for that 3C.

They obviously can give minor effort and do fine regular season. I suspect sometime in March you will see the beginnings of an extra gear.

 

[ColePens]

The Pens have 9 of a possible 14 points. While looking disinterested and as you say 'ugly' all season. Despite being an incomplete team still looking for that 3C.

They obviously can give minor effort and do fine regular season. I suspect sometime in March you will see the beginnings of an extra gear.

You know I definitely agree with you, but I wouldn't classify it as ugly as others do. It's an ebb and flow of focus, and it's completely understandable.

Plus people don't realize but the Pens get every team's best each and every night. That's not just a saying. It's real. B2B champs. The other teams circle those dates and know they have to beat them to make their statement. It's not like going into a regular season game against Arizona, who hasn't proven that championship worthy attitude.

 

[Andy99]

Also, not sure if anyone mentioned it in here yet, but:

Maatta '16-'17
55 games, 1 goal, 6 assists

Maatta '17-'18
7 games, 2 goals, 5 assists

Yep. He's been our best defenseman in the early going IMO