Confirmed with Link: Penguins trade Scott Wilson + 2018 3rd rd. pick for Riley Sheahan + 2018 5th rd. pick

[Gurglesons]

Why don't I get bonus points for being right?

Because you were supposed to be outside enjoying the back to back cups?

What is hilarious is that this is exactly what we said would happen. Not signing or trading by August for a 3C would result in us having an AHL forward resulting in defensive defiencies which would force Rutherford to waste assets on a stop gap.

Obviously, Sheahan could totally pan out and I hope he does, but reading that Cole post about him saying this trade is questionable after his BS I'll never complain about Rutherford summer is soooo sweet.

And it is funny because I honestly have no issue with the trade. 3rd could probably be recouped if we really want it and Wilson for Sheahan honestly can't really be anything but a wash. We traded a healthy scratch for a roster player.

We knew what Bonino brought, we knew what he would cost, and all we would have had to budge on was term. Like would Bones have not been moveable if we added a 3rd and basically took nothing back when we had to sign Jake and Murray at 4 million?

And now the argument is we can afford to spend 2 mil on Sheahan and a mil on Reaves because something or other.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The Schultz comparison is silly because Justin had high upside, it was at the deadline, Edmonton ate cap, and they only paid a 3rd.

I love taking chances on high upside guys. I get we had a need at center, but I don't think Sheahan has all that much upside and his style of play doesn't really fit the Pens.

I heard all summer that Bones wasn't a good skater and didn't fit the Pens. So we get a worse player that skates about the same and I'm supposed to be happy with it?

The Schultz comparison makes sense because we traded for a guy who had sharply regressed who once had quite a bit of promise to fill a hole in the line-up without losing anything from the roster. And not just promise, but both Schultz and Sheahan both had already played at the level we hope they can play at for us.

We traded down two rounds to turn a 4th line wing with potential 3rd line upside for a 4th line center with potential 3rd line upside. That seems about right to me.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I have no issue with the trade. It’s not overpayment. We need depth there and this provides it. The wings have been a terrible team the last few years and he’s got a great opportunity to bounce back here. JR seems to pull trades off that people question to only love all the time here. Let’s wait and see.

 

[flaneur]

Shrug. I'm okay with this trade. Rutherford is an old school horsetrader with an affinity for former first round players who have had off year(s) and has the potential to bounce back (bonus points if they have a reputation of being liked by their teammates). The Pens have an excess of wingers and needed a center... so they traded a winger for a center. Makes sense.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What is hilarious is that this is exactly what we said would happen. Not signing or trading by August for a 3C would result in us having an AHL forward resulting in defensive defiencies which would force Rutherford to waste assets on a stop gap.

This was a deal that was going to take place before the season started and was only delayed by a contract dispute.

Obviously, Sheahan could totally pan out and I hope he does, but reading that Cole post about him saying this trade is questionable after his BS I'll never complain about Rutherford summer is soooo sweet.

Why do you think that "saying a move is questionable" and "complaining about JR" are the same thing?

 

[Riptide]

I don't know if some of you fully grasp what a smoldering garbage pile of misery and broken dreams the Detroit Red Wings are at this moment in time.

Get that logic out of here. It's perfectly reasonable to expect him to produce with Booth and Glendenning on his line.

 

[Gurglesons]

This was a deal that was going to take place before the season started and was only delayed by a contract dispute.

Why do you think that "saying a move is questionable" and "complaining about JR" are the same thing?

I think the whole, saying "this deal looks f***ing stupid" is the complaining about JR.

Also, I think there is a big difference between reports that Detroit was unsure of if they wanted to part with Sheahan and "it was only delayed by a contract dispute".

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think the whole, saying "this deal looks ****ing stupid" is the complaining about JR.

There is a difference between a problem with a decision and a problem with a person. They can be and often are very different things.

Also, I think there is a big difference between reports that Detroit was unsure of if they wanted to part with Sheahan and "it was only delayed by a contract dispute".

Yeah real coincidence that the trade happened literally a day after the contract dispute ended.

 

[Gurglesons]

There is a difference between a problem with a decision and a problem with a person. They can be and often are very different things.

And our issue all summer was with the decision to let Bonino walk without a plan and using that cap on a #6 and Reaves?

Why would Detroit not move Sheahan if this deal was agreed to in July?

The wording from Rutherford makes it obvious that the cap crunch resulted in Sheahan being moved. This argument is stupid regardless as we have no idea what the original offer was and the reasons outside of assumption. I guess if your contention is that Rutherford "had" a plan because he was focused on Sheahan, sure whatever.

 

[Riptide]

IDK, this doesn't really scream over the top to me. I thought we had moved past Sheahan. Maybe he can turn it around with a change of scenery, but if Sheahan is our 3C come March,.....it will feel like we have thrown in the towel. Hopefully he can turn it around. If not, we will have 3 Adams caliber centers.

Maybe we should give him a dozen games or so before calling him a failure and saying keeping him in that role means the team is giving up? Just a suggestion.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe we should give him a dozen games or so before calling him a failure and saying keeping him in that role means the team is giving up? Just a suggestion.

Even if Sheahan is our 3C come march and producing terribly we can bring in a UFA that hopefully off sets it.

 

[Riptide]

I've been pretty vocal about not wanting to add Sheahan since McKegg has come in and looked good, so needless to say moving Wilson and a 3rd in a deal for him without retention doesn't really sit well.

He's a Penguin now though, so hopefully I'm wrong and Empo's right about him and he can contribute something like he did two years ago instead of the sub-Rowney standard he's given Detroit for the last ~90 games.

Work your magic Sullivan.

I agree with the bolded... but I find it hard to get all that upset over moving a player who's been a HS for us for the last week, was a 4th liner when healthy, and who's best case scenario was maybe a 2nd/3rd line tweener... for someone who could potentially fill our center depth long term (or at least beyond this season), and swapping pick. I mean really... what's the downside here? That it doesn't pan out? Then we blew a little cap space, a marginal asset and a dropped back 35-50 picks. Given the potential upside, that's a pretty low risk move.

Even if Sheahan is our 3C come march and producing terribly we can bring in a UFA that hopefully off sets it.

Exactly. Even with his 2.075m cap hit (less actually as DET has played 10% of the season already), we will still have just over 1m that long term will still allow us to acquire pretty much any player we want come the TD. So if he pans out, great... we have someone who works that cost us next to nothing. If he doesn't, he and McKegg still buy us time to get to the TD and to find another solution.

 

[Riptide]

I find it somewhat surprising given the timing. You'd think the Wings would be much more interested in pulling the trigger right now in order to be able to finalize the AA contract. While we clearly need a center, our record is good enough to convince other teams we can wait it out.

Yeah, but you can only make moves for players when their GM is finally willing to give them up. Holland was ready to move Sheahan... there's no guarantee that McPhee or whomever would have been ready to move one of their centers any time soon.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The difference between a third and fifth round pick becoming an NHL player is 10%. 30% chance vs. a 20% chance.

That ain't a big price.

In fact is it makes you feel better to think of it as a third for a fourth, go ahead as rounds 4-7 all are around the same 20% chance.

The real question is whether taking a flyer on Sheahan was worth Wilson as the pick exchange is almost a worthless difference.

As for the trade itself anyone who has watched JR over the years knew this was coming. He hardly is close to the vest and I said as much last week. Once he fixates on a player he really does not deviate.

 

[Riptide]

It's a pretty steep price for a player who's been worse than Rowney for over a calendar year.

Or maybe... just maybe, that despite what HF tells you about a players short term issues, that GMs take a look at a much larger sample size. And that Sheahan despite having about a bad a season as is possible... actually holds more value then some thought.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Every Goal by Riley Sheahan from the 2015-2016 Regular Season



Watching those what comes to mind is opportunistic. If he can recapture some of that there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Riptide]

Another poor decision by management.

Wilson McKegg Reaves would have been a decent 4th line.

We still don't have a third line center and we just lost cap space, a draft pick and a decent 4th liner.

I hate this trade.

Naturally we're all absolutely shocked to hear that.

 

[Riptide]

Although it's kinda funny, all we heard all offseason from some people was that Wilson was never going to be the centerpiece for a 3C trade, and now he's gone as the centerpiece for a 3C trade. Funny how that happens

Actually what I repeatedly said this summer, is that the piece that goes with Wilson will have more value then Wilson... and I think that too proved to be true.

 

[Riptide]

I'm sick of buying high on these below average players. Why on earth are you making this trade? I wouldn't trade Wilson for Sheahan straight up unless Detroit retains. So you give them a third round pick too? He's a friggin cap dump, Detroit needs to sweeten the deal for you.

We did Detroit a huge favor here

Clearly not.

Maybe Detroit did us a huge favor here? Pretty sure we've been looking for a center all summer - I mean if I read your posts, that's all you've been bitching about. Now we acquired one... and for next to nothing. Color me shocked that you're still bitching about it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wonder who they will run as a third line.

Every Goal by Riley Sheahan from the 2015-2016 Regular Season



Watching those what comes to mind is opportunistic. If he can recapture some of that there is nothing wrong with that.

From this it seems like he does best when he isn't driving the play.

I think they should go Sheary - Sheahan - Rust.

 

[Gurglesons]

Actually what I repeatedly said this summer, is that the piece that goes with Wilson will have more value then Wilson... and I think that too proved to be true.

Also, weren't the trades many of us disagreed with players like Karlsson or Lindberg for Wilson and a 3rd?

I feel like you and I were pretty spot on with saying that Sheahan was going to cost around a 2nd/3rd and a prospect / roster player.

 

[Riptide]

Sometimes stats don't say it all. But going back to Wilkes Barre, he was by far the better player. I'll take that larger sample over the current smaller one. (like we are hoping with Sheahan) I mean, what is Kuhn better at than Wilson?? Being able to get in the way of shots? Sure but the rebound just kicks on over to some other player on the opposing team. Wilson is a better fit, has more upside, better skater, more physical.

About Reaves.. he's made an impact in exactly one game this year. Like.. he doesn't do anything. Is he a good skater for a guy his size? Sure, maybe? But like, he's still the slowest guy out there.. a forechecking menace? Good cycler? No. We all know why he's here.. but what's the use when nobody wants to fight him? We play Tampa - who is ALL skill - and he's simply lost out there. You play him against division rivals/heavy teams. 55-60 games? Sure. He's a regular and it's unbelievable.

Who gives a shit about their AHL stats. Both have ~100 NHL games under their belts and both produced basically identical numbers. Do I think Wilson is the better player? Yes. But at the end of the day, the difference between them is next to nothing.

Jesus... some of us are acting as if we just traded Sprong, instead of a guy that was a healthy scratch and who would only have cracked the 4th line even if he was playing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm ok with this trade, it's not really a huge risk trade either, Wilson seemed like the odd man out and if Kuhnhackl was the guy Sullivan chose, there's a good reason why, likely because he trusted Kuhn out there more, I remember Sheahan under Babcock, the guy is a solid player, there are a few days to get him sorted with the team, a practice in and to get familiar with Sullivan's system. I think he'll be fine. I'm actually kind of excited to see how well he does.

Now if we can get Sprong up too, that'd be perfect. Because the hunger Mckegg had seemed to be wearing off, he hasn't looked as fast as he did in the first few games, bumping him down to the 4th line, adding in Sheahan, that's 1 very hungry guy coming from a terrible situation, we need more of that hunger on the roster.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Who gives a **** about their AHL stats. Both have ~100 NHL games under their belts and both produced basically identical numbers. Do I think Wilson is the better player? Yes. But at the end of the day, the difference between them is next to nothing.

Jesus... some of us are acting as if we just traded Sprong, instead of a guy that was a healthy scratch and who would only have cracked the 4th line even if he was playing.

I didn't want to come and look at any trade thread in our board because of this, I knew the incessant whining and the "omg, HORRIBLE MOVE" type of posts.

It's the lowest risk trade JR could make where it would pay off. Wilson wasn't even being played, it was staring to become clear that the coaching staff trusted Kuhnhackl far more over him. The Pens couldn't waive Wilson because they'd lose him for nothing, same reason they have kept Archie up. Wilson is a solid player, but so is Sheahan.

You have a guy that has a solid pedigree, a coach that is well respected in this league trusted him. A rookie coach ran him into the ground, now he's suddenly a steaming pile because people don't want to give the guy a chance, kind of ridiculous on this team to be honest.

The same group that probably whined about Cullen being a horrible signing and that the team needed to push more youth.

The same group that probably said Rust is a dime a dozen player and that Sheary is just another Gibbons/Bourque retread before his break out year last year.

Meh, par for the course. I'm not gonna pour on more negativity, bad game, stupid coaching moves, nothing will be done there, all I can hope for is some players being called up, traded for, etc, that add some hunger to a team that is just tired.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sheahan was also a regular net front on the PP in DET. Probably sees PP2 action doing the same here.

1st unit: Sid, G, Horny, Phil, Tang or Schultz
2nd: Sheahan(FO taker/netfront), Jake, Sheary, maybe a Rust + Tang or Schultz and Sprong coming soon...

He never really excelled on the PP as a net front guy that I'm aware of, but he is a really big body with nice hands, so maybe Hornqvist can work with him.

The Schultz comparison is silly because Justin had high upside, it was at the deadline, Edmonton ate cap, and they only paid a 3rd.

I love taking chances on high upside guys. I get we had a need at center, but I don't think Sheahan has all that much upside and his style of play doesn't really fit the Pens.

I heard all summer that Bones wasn't a good skater and didn't fit the Pens. So we get a worse player that skates about the same and I'm supposed to be happy with it?

Not sure why the comparison to Schultz is being blown off. A couple years ago RS was looked at as a hot commodity and few would have argued that he was on the path to be at least one of the best third pivots in the league. After Babs left, his game seems to have totally disintegrated.

Schultz was as big a mess as I've ever seen a blueliner and literally quit on his team. That is a rare thing that you can visibly see a player at the pro level quit.

RS has just as many tools as Schultz did and he's a way better skater than Bones.

I don't know how well he will produce because he's always been a guy that has to be reminded to use his lethal shot. However, there is a lot there for Sullivan and crew to work with and mould back into the good two way guy he was becoming under Babs.