Penguins "to KC/staying in Pitt/not sold/whatever" thread

[JoeP]

If the pens move Mario better go back to canada and the friggen mayor, gov, and county ex better have plans for a new job. Before I move from this city ill vote them out of office. **** both parties im sick of this.

Rendell and Onorato are doing their part. It's up to Lemiuex to grow up and move this along.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

The question has never been "can Toronto handle a 2nd team" - it's always been "will the Maple Leafs allow a 2nd team in the market?" and we've pretty well agreed that the only way the Leafs allow someone else in is if they pay a huge sum as compensation.

Well, the Devils had to pay compensation to three teams I believe. Rangers, Islanders and the Flyers. I can't see why compensation would be such an issue.

How far is Hamilton from Toronto?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Rendell and Onorato are doing their part. It's up to Lemiuex to grow up and move this along.

I don't know if Rendell is actually doing his part or postured to get elected. He needed Pittsburgh for that and never cared about the western part of the state before or after. The slots license legislation does not even allow the implimentation of the promises he has already made let alone new ones. It specifically only allows the Pittsburgh license to use revenues locally for for small projects. One was a hotel by the convention center, I forget the others. But no mention of an arena. I think the chances are he was and is talking out of his ***. A shame that so many PA jobs will be lost in Pittsburgh over $4 mil. per year, including restaurants, hotels, etc for those 44 games played here a year. That does not include playoffs as well which should be coming soon. I hope that I am wrong, but Philly Rendell would gladly give it to us over on this side of the state even over $4 mil. per year, which by the way is being siphoned and more from us with those slots parlors. Almost all the revenue leaves Pittsburgh costing each tax payer here money and goes to other parts of the state.

 

[davemess]

Rendell and Onorato are doing their part. It's up to Lemiuex to grow up and move this along.

Mario isnt legally allowed to talk to them about Plan B until after the IOC thing is totally dead (ie after appeals). That is part of the agreement that Mario signed with IOC.

That is something that Mario checked out with the political figures before he signed by the way and they all gave him the ok......... but since they have used his "unwillingness" to talk about Plan B to beat Mario over the head.

 

[Artyukhin*]

Man this really blows 2 of the best young players in years going to a some hockey souless place like KC or Houston.

If Crosby and Maklin end up with Dorthy and Toto in Kansas it will only be for a few more years .

Crosby will be wearing a Montreal Jersey in his prime in about 6 years or less IMHO . What is Crosby's incentive to stay in KC ? For the history of the club?


Wont be a thing Bettmen can do out that either . Maybe by that time Kanas City will be drawing 11,000 fans a night

 

[Artyukhin*]

To be honest the way i see it going is

Pens move this summer no more messing around and avoiding taking 3 to 4 more years of losses. Off to the land of KC


Pittsburgh does builds a rink and gets a team back (pick one of the weak sisters in the nhl, they will eventually have to be adressed in the next 4 years ) and in 2010-11 when the rink is completed and is finished there renamed the PITTSBURGH Penguins

If history repeats itself in KC like it has with Quebec to Colorado 2 cups ,Minny to Dallas 1 cup, Hartford to Carolina 1 cup then expect Kansas City to win the Stanley cup within the next 4 years .

 

[Majik1987]

Rendell and Onorato are doing their part. It's up to Lemiuex to grow up and move this along.

You have to be kidding me. The guy kept the franchise in Pitsburgh by exchanging money owed to him for a stake in the ownership. You do realize he could have said, "Screw it, I want the cash. Force a sale." and this franchise wouldn't even be here right now.

Man, you are lost.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Well, the Devils had to pay compensation to three teams I believe. Rangers, Islanders and the Flyers. I can't see why compensation would be such an issue.

How far is Hamilton from Toronto?

I think we are less than fifty miles, but it is not a viable hockey market, sorry.

 

[discostu]

I dont think thats the case, i think with the compressed time scale you have going on here, Pens could be gone by July, its impossible for Mario to get a sale completed while also working on a deal in Pittsburgh and looking at outside options.

Mario wants to sell the team but he isnt the only Share Holder remember, he has responsibilites to do whats best for both the team and his fellow board members.

Selling the team right now while its price is down so somebody else can move the team does nothing for the team or the board.

Taking the team off the market allows him to try to force the city into a better Plan B while also looking at potential outside options in case of failure. In that case he either gets a new Pittsburgh arena (win for team and board) or he has to move them out of town and then sell (lose for team, win for board).

Perhaps, but, the way that Mario seemed to take offence at the possibility of Balsillie moving the team, when he's now willing to do the same, seems a little hypocritical to me.

Mind you, I think Mario deserves leeway in this whole thing, simply because he's done so much for the franchise. He's saved the team on multiple occassions, and, I think that he figures if anyone is going to profit from moving that team, it deserves to be him. In a philosophical sense, I understand that, and sympathize with him. However, when the agreement was made with Balsillie to sell the team, he undertook the risks of the team at that time. It seemed to be made with the agreement that he'd keep the team with a new, fully paid arena, but after that, it was his discretion on what to do with it. If that's the case, then, Mario gave up his right to profit from the team moving. In reality, that prospect was reflected in the $175M sale price that Balsillie did pay.


All of the above is based on my interpretation of what has happened based on limited information, so, there could be a whole other situation here we don't know about. But, that's how I see it.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

To be honest the way i see it going is

Pens move this summer no more messing around and avoiding taking 3 to 4 more years of losses. Off to the land of KC


Pittsburgh does builds a rink and gets a team back in 2010-11 when the rink is completed and is finished .

I would not support an expansion team while watching Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Staal win cup after cup elsewhere. To be honest the NHL could fall off the face of the earth if the Pens move as far as I care. I grew up a Pens' fan. I do not want to start over from scratch.

 

[rekrul]

I don't know if Rendell is actually doing his part or postured to get elected. He needed Pittsburgh for that and never cared about the western part of the state before or after. The slots license legislation does not even allow the implimentation of the promises he has already made let alone new ones. It specifically only allows the Pittsburgh license to use revenues locally for for small projects. One was a hotel by the convention center, I forget the others. But no mention of an arena. I think the chances are he was and is talking out of his ***. A shame that so many PA jobs will be lost in Pittsburgh over $4 mil. per year, including restaurants, hotels, etc for those 44 games played here a year. That does not include playoffs as well which should be coming soon. I hope that I am wrong, but Philly Rendell would gladly give it to us over on this side of the state even over $4 mil. per year, which by the way is being siphoned and more from us with those slots parlors. Almost all the revenue leaves Pittsburgh costing each tax payer here money and goes to other parts of the state.

I a total sports fan and do not want to see the Pens leave but nearly every economic study on teams and arenas shows disposable income goes to other places it doesn't just "go away". If your not eating by the Arena in game night your eating out somewhere else, Not seeing a game may mean your going to a Movie instead. Now if your talking about bring in $$ from the 'burbs into the city I get that. But seriously a Hockey team a new arena do not generate any real amount of overall Job and economy of growth.

If PNC park and Heize field are such a economic growth for the city wouldn't another sports complex just fit right in?

 

[GKJ]

If the pens move Mario better go back to canada and the friggen mayor, gov, and county ex better have plans for a new job. Before I move from this city ill vote them out of office. **** both parties im sick of this.

Like or hate Rendell, this is his last term as PA governor. Based on who they sent to try and take Rendell out, I wouldn't be so sure the answer is blame the governor.


The way I see it, Pittsburgh would get an expansion team within 4 years anyways, that's if people want to make it happen. I've seen the mayor take more heat recently than Rendell has.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Like or hate Rendell, this is his last term as PA governor. Based on who they sent to try and take Rendell out, I wouldn't be so sure the answer is blame the governor.


The way I see it, Pittsburgh would get an expansion team within 4 years anyways, that's if people want to make it happen. I've seen the mayor take more heat recently than Rendell has.

I am a full season ticket holder. I would not have the heart to start from scratch and watch Crosby, Malkin, etc. win cups elsewhere and go through another decade of sucking. If the Pens go that would be it for me. I grew up a Pens' fan and have watched them since the early 70's. They are my team. Not some bone thrown our way a few years down the road. I wonder how many Pens' fans feel the same? A lot I would think. Bye Bye top three local market ratings NHL. I certainly would not be buying season tickets again.

 

[Artyukhin*]

I would not support an expansion team while watching Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Staal win cup after cup elsewhere. To be honest the NHL could fall off the face of the earth if the Pens move as far as I care. I grew up a Pens' fan. I do not want to start over from scratch.

Jaded fan i know it is not fair but in the end everything on this earth comes down to money and that is the unfortunate reality of it all .


Minnesota North Stars fans were jaded also, but ask them now how they feel with the Wild , you can learn to love again if you really try . If not there will be someone there to take your place when the new team comes back to town .


Memories are something you will always have . They cant take away the Stanley Cups the Pens wons, EVER.

2006 is a more greedy, money hungry world than it was 40 -50 years ago .Just the way it goes .

 

[octopi]

If relocation were to happen, I'd love to see a team in Winnipeg,

Been there, done that, team was moved due to non-support.

 

[discostu]

Well, the Devils had to pay compensation to three teams I believe. Rangers, Islanders and the Flyers. I can't see why compensation would be such an issue.

How far is Hamilton from Toronto?

As others have said, Hamilton is likely within the terrortorial area, as well as potentially being in Buffalo's area as well.

Hence, Kitchener-Waterloo has been discussed more recently, especially with Balsillie's ties to the area. It's approximately just outside the 50 mile range, and is farther enough north of Hamilton, making clearly out of Buffalo's way as well.

 

[Artyukhin*]

Been there, done that, team was moved due to non-support.

wonder if Mario would move them to Quebec?If he was guaranteed a new rink ? Patrick Roy ever talk to Mario?

Wasnt about attendance there . hmmm

Just picture a return of the Quecbec Nordiques and new %owner/GM Patrick Roy.

Imagine Quebec trading Jordan Stall and ?? for the ever popular adopted Quebec son Alex Radulov



Major Juniour hockey in Quebec "Patrick Roys" team draws well at the gate largest crowd of the season (14,482) was registered on Friday, September 22, at the Colisée Pepsi


now back to my egg nog

 

[codswallop]

I would not support an expansion team while watching Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Staal win cup after cup elsewhere. To be honest the NHL could fall off the face of the earth if the Pens move as far as I care. I grew up a Pens' fan. I do not want to start over from scratch.

You might be surprised how quickly (and how much) you miss it if it goes.

I grew up a Flames fan in Atlanta. They moved for financial reasons that had nothing to do with the team itself, let's just say I was one pissed off toddler when that happened. Didn't watch or follow hockey for a year or two, but I missed it too much to stay away. Just appreciated it for the great sport that it is, and waited patiently until maybe we got another NHL team (which thankfully we did).

It was a 20 year wait to get the team, and now 6+ years for them to be at least decent, but it has definitely been worth it. If you're a real fan, you'll eventually follow the sport again. I would like to see the Pens stay, I really would. If nothing else, the true fans definitely deserve it.

But time is really running out now. 6 or 7 months is a short time to get a deal of this magnitude done and approved. Someone mentioned that Lemieux and the IoC need to completely cut ties before he can begin on alternate plans to keep the team in Pittsburgh. There just isn't time for that. Hopefully him and the board have already discussed possible options/plans with other investors and just kept it very quiet, because barring a miracle I don't see how they can accomplish this with the time they have left.

I'm positive that there is some very relevant info that we as fans don't have any knowledge of regarding all this, including Pens fans who have been following this for a long time. That's just the way it works most times, the public isn't on the "need-to-know" list (and usually it's for a good reason). So it's possible that something will come out of the blue in this, good or bad I don't know. With that, no one can say for sure whether the Pens are going to stay or go. But with the info we have, it sure doesn't look too good right now.

This soap opera is a long way from done.

 

[C Alan Adan]

AGAIN! I keep saying that this is some stupid ****ing soap opera!

Can we just either move the team, contract it, or let it stay or whatever and do it now!?

There's a reason that they just don't shut the **** up and make a decision - an abrupt decision could result in the loss of millions of dollars to people. When that is the potential case, you don't make any rash decisions. When these decisions involve tens and hundreds of millions of dollars, it ceases to be just a soap opera. Like it or not, with the amount of money involved here, as well as the NHL's concern with one of it's 30 franchises, it'll be a long while before a decision is agreed upon.

It's certainly not a trivial thing.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Been there, done that, team was moved due to non-support.

Non-support? There was support, but the owner didn't want to stay in Winnipeg.

I bet you that they will get more support now than half the teams in the league.

 

[octopi]

With my brain riddled with baby cold germs on the brink of "terrible two" toddlerhood, the thought that the Pens recent sagas could by a 3 part saga


Episode I: Pens Wars, A New Hope (In which the Pens get Crosby)

Episode II: Return of the Malki(In which Malkin runs away and subsequent court case fizzles out)

Episode III: Lemieux strikes back(In which Mario threatens to move the team to Timbuktoo or Antartica, or worse Kentucky.......altho havving the "Kentucky Fried Chickens" as a team name would be rather profitable)

 

[Artyukhin*]

Episode III: Lemieux strikes back(In which Mario threatens to move the team to Timbuktoo or Antartica, or worse Kentucky.......altho havving the "Kentucky Fried Chickens" as a team name would be rather profitable)

i busted out laughing until i quickly remembered the "Mighty" Ducks

 

[Shelby-villains]

Perhaps, but, the way that Mario seemed to take offence at the possibility of Balsillie moving the team, when he's now willing to do the same, seems a little hypocritical to me.

Mind you, I think Mario deserves leeway in this whole thing, simply because he's done so much for the franchise. He's saved the team on multiple occassions, and, I think that he figures if anyone is going to profit from moving that team, it deserves to be him. In a philosophical sense, I understand that, and sympathize with him. However, when the agreement was made with Balsillie to sell the team, he undertook the risks of the team at that time. It seemed to be made with the agreement that he'd keep the team with a new, fully paid arena, but after that, it was his discretion on what to do with it. If that's the case, then, Mario gave up his right to profit from the team moving. In reality, that prospect was reflected in the $175M sale price that Balsillie did pay.


All of the above is based on my interpretation of what has happened based on limited information, so, there could be a whole other situation here we don't know about. But, that's how I see it.

Mario never put forth any restrictions on Balsille to keep the team in Pittsburgh aside from contract obligations to the IOC plan. Now that this deal is dead the franchise will be a "free agent" to whoever can provide the strongest case to house the franchise. This was the case before the IOC plan and is the same case now.

Local politicians have one final chance to make a competitive bid to host an NHL franchise.

 

[AM]

Hypocritical?

Perhaps, but, the way that Mario seemed to take offence at the possibility of Balsillie moving the team, when he's now willing to do the same, seems a little hypocritical to me.

Mind you, I think Mario deserves leeway in this whole thing, simply because he's done so much for the franchise. He's saved the team on multiple occassions, and, I think that he figures if anyone is going to profit from moving that team, it deserves to be him. In a philosophical sense, I understand that, and sympathize with him. However, when the agreement was made with Balsillie to sell the team, he undertook the risks of the team at that time. It seemed to be made with the agreement that he'd keep the team with a new, fully paid arena, but after that, it was his discretion on what to do with it. If that's the case, then, Mario gave up his right to profit from the team moving. In reality, that prospect was reflected in the $175M sale price that Balsillie did pay.


All of the above is based on my interpretation of what has happened based on limited information, so, there could be a whole other situation here we don't know about. But, that's how I see it.

NOT in the least.

Basically, the deal Mario was looking for was the one where the Pens stay in Pittsburg.

The Penguins are worth less money in Pittsburg then elsewhere...

If all owner is going ot do is move them, why wouldnt Mario just pocket that money rather then give it to someone else?

Thats the only sense.

 

[discostu]

Mario never put forth any restrictions on Balsille to keep the team in Pittsburgh aside from contract obligations to the IOC plan. Now that this deal is dead the franchise will be a "free agent" to whoever can provide the strongest case to house the franchise. This was the case before the IOC plan and is the same case now.

Local politicians have one final chance to make a competitive bid to host an NHL franchise.

Mario didn't put the restrictions in, but, the league did. They wanted Balsillie to agree to not move the team under any condition, and, that the league reserved the right to revoke the franchise. Mario seemed to support the idea though, as, he was vocal that he was happy that the deal was dead with Balsillie.

Balsillie didn't appear to have any problems with keeping the team in Pittsburgh if teh IOC plan went through. It was what would happen if it didn't, that killed the deal. The NHL wanted a guaranteed agreement from him to keep the team there, but, they do not seem concerned about getting the same guarantee from any other owner.