Post-Game Talk: Penguins 5, Sabres 4 (OT) - A Win is Nice, But These are Hard Times

[Extra Texture]

We simply need a tweener center. A guy who is between a second and a third liner and that would shift the whole dynamic of this team. I'd really like to get a guy like Ryan O'Reilly out of Buffalo but that might be wishful thinking

Good call. Lets trade for Draisaitl too. You know, just to be sure.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

That and the 4th line has three players who, imo, shouldn’t feel secure in having a spot.

Exactly. That is the one thing about Sully that does worry me. We need to restore that competition. There's too much complacency.

We have 2 guys on IR right now too. We could get Archie in and get a WBS guy, or 2, a cup of coffee. Reaves should also get a game in the press box here and there. Same with McKegg. Hell, at risk of a HF implosion, the thought of giving Jake a game off has crossed my mind.

 

[fcfury]

That's so fetch!

Love the Mean Girls reference

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Also, for the love of God give Archie some games. We could use an injection of speed and hunger.

"But we can't take out our God of Penalty Killing, Kuhn!"

<checks stats>
"We're only 25th in the league while shorthanded, Imagine if he wasn't in the lineup?!"

 

[Richard]

Good call. Lets trade for Draisaitl too. You know, just to be sure.

Buffalo needs dmen and they are going nowhere this year. Their prospects have busted. There is a chance they may go for the complete retool.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

"But we can't take out our God of Penalty Killing, Kuhn!"

<checks stats>
"We're only 25th in the league while shorthanded, Imagine if he wasn't in the lineup?!"

Yeah. It made some sense the first few weeks where there were 20 pk's per game but now it's just nonsense.

And Kuhn hasn't even been that good on the PK lately. Certainly no noticeable downgrade on the PK going from Kuhn to Archie.

I think Sully is subconsciously seeing "Kun" and treating him as our previous teflon LW

 

[SEALBound]

Also, for the love of God give Archie some games. We could use an injection of speed and hunger.

While I do agree, it's not like the simple addition of Archibald is gonna solve the primary issues this team has right now.

 

[Shady Machine]

Buffalo needs dmen and they are going nowhere this year. Their prospects have busted. There is a chance they may go for the complete retool.

We don't have dmen that we can trade to get O'Reilly. It would take Schultz+.

Also, what makes you think they need Dmen enough to trade their 2C?

Their lineup is Risto, Scandella, McCabe, Bealieu, Bogosian, Gorges, etc.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Exactly. That is the one thing about Sully that does worry me. We need to restore that competition. There's too much complacency.

We have 2 guys on IR right now too. We could get Archie in and get a WBS guy, or 2, a cup of coffee. Reaves should also get a game in the press box here and there. Same with McKegg. Hell, at risk of a HF implosion, the thought of giving Jake a game off has crossed my mind.

I was going to say McKegg is currently safe because of injuries but they do have a spot freed up from IR. I can’t say I’ve been pissed off with him most of the time but whatever he’s not standing out a tonne either.

Jake does look like he needs to regroup mentally. He’s basically struggling for the first time in his nhl career and learning how to manage that. Letting him play through it has had less than stellar results.

 

[Shady Machine]

While I do agree, it's not like the simple addition of Archibald is gonna solve the primary issues this team has right now.

Certainly not, but it's worth seeing a different look from time to time. Archi needs to be given some games here and there, particularly with our crazy back to back schedule. It's pretty bizarre that he hasn't gotten more than 1.

 

[SEALBound]

Certainly not, but it's worth seeing a different look from time to time. Archi needs to be given some games here and there, particularly with our crazy back to back schedule. It's pretty bizarre that he hasn't gotten more than 1.

Agreed. And when he did, he got was in over Hagelin IIRC. I mean, Hagelin was doing rather poor but still a head scratcher.

I believe we need to be cycling through those WBS guys. 2-3 stretches for Sprong, ZAR, DiPauli, Simon, etc.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

While I do agree, it's not like the simple addition of Archibald is gonna solve the primary issues this team has right now.

True, you're nipping at the margins whenever you tinker with your 12th F. But the 4th line the last 2 runs always had some bit of speed and threat to score on it.

Now it's got 2 slow wings who can't play at the pace of their C and it looks FUBAR. At least Archi has more speed to make the unit appear a bit more cohesive. And I thought Reaves was faster than this? Was it because he played in the West? He looks absolutely glacial, so if there's anything that I've been disappointed about with him is I thought he was faster...

 

[Shady Machine]

True, you're nipping at the margins whenever you tinker with your 12th F. But the 4th line the last 2 runs always had some bit of speed and threat to score on it.

Now it's got 2 slow wings who can't play at the pace of their C and it looks FUBAR. At least Archi has more speed to make the unit appear a bit more cohesive. And I thought Reaves was faster than this? Was it because he played in the West? He looks absolutely glacial, so if there's anything that I've been disappointed about with him is I thought he was faster...

He's a good skater for his size, but he's certainly not fast. If given enough runway, he can get up to an above average top speed, but his quickness is below average (not surprising since he's a mammoth dude).

I'd say it was a combination of playing in a slower West and people over exaggerating his speed.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Those geniuses didn't even look for traffic when continuing across the road. Paging Mr. Darwin...

Kind of like Letang entering or exiting a zone or QBing a PP.

 

[vodeni]

Yeah. It made some sense the first few weeks where there were 20 pk's per game but now it's just nonsense.

And Kuhn hasn't even been that good on the PK lately. Certainly no noticeable downgrade on the PK going from Kuhn to Archie.

I think Sully is subconsciously seeing "Kun" and treating him as our previous teflon LW

Our PK sucks, I thought it was because sheahan and Kuhn who are two of the forwards on each unit, are too slow to attack and put the pressure, than I heard Sully last night on the presser saying something like: we ask our PK to be conservative to collapse and protect the goal, I was shocked to hear that WTF?? if thats true that is 180 degree opposite from what made them really good PK last year, I mean collapsing is recipe for disaster, getting shot at, breaking bones yet letting all kind of rebounds, full control of PP etc...Wrong move

 

[Doogle]

I think Sheahan slept with Pens x's mom or something. There's no other possible explanation for his constant criticism of him. It's beyond bizarre at this point. Sheahan has been our best faceoff guy since we got him, he had an assist last night, and our third line that he centered was easily our best line last night. Sure, he'd be better as a 4c. Sure, Cullen and Bonino are better than Sheahan. But he is a competent 3c. Sorry you've been spoiled with Staal, Bonino, and to a lesser extent Sutter, but most teams lack center depth. That's why they're the most coveted position outside of legitimate top four defensemen. While I will freely admit that we could use an upgrade there, he's fine enough, and if we don't threepeat, it won't be because Sheahan can't score.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think Sheahan slept with Pens x's mom or something. There's no other possible explanation for his constant criticism of him. It's beyond bizarre at this point. Sheahan has been our best faceoff guy since we got him, he had an assist last night, and our third line that he centered was easily our best line last night. Sure, he'd be better as a 4c. Sure, Cullen and Bonino are better than Sheahan. But he is a competent 3c. Sorry you've been spoiled with Staal, Bonino, and to a lesser extent Sutter, but most teams lack center depth. That's why they're the most coveted position outside of legitimate top four defensemen. While I will freely admit that we could use an upgrade there, he's fine enough, and if we don't threepeat, it won't be because Sheahan can't score.

You think a 9 point pace per 82 is competent for a 3C on any team, let alone a Cup contender (15 point pace per 82 in his time in Pittsburgh)? Sheahan might START to be competent if he can move back to a 25 point pace, but at the level of production he is at, he's not competent. Although I suppose that depends on your definition of the word.

 

[SEALBound]

You think a 9 point pace per 82 is competent for a 3C on any team, let alone a Cup contender (15 point pace per 82 in his time in Pittsburgh)? Sheahan might START to be competent if he can move back to a 25 point pace, but at the level of production he is at, he's not competent. Although I suppose that depends on your definition of the word.

Obviously not, but it's been what, 11 games?

2015 Bonino's first 11 games: 2g, 1a, 3pts (2pts in 1 game).

2016 Bonino's first 11 games: 3a, 3pts

Sheahan's first 11 games: 2a, 2pts

So one particular poster here cries and whines about Bonino all the time. In reality, in the same sample size, Bonino didn't outperform Sheahan.

Do we need more out of him? Absolutely 100%. But people need to step away from the ledge for a moment.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I was going to say McKegg is currently safe because of injuries but they do have a spot freed up from IR. I can’t say I’ve been pissed off with him most of the time but whatever he’s not standing out a tonne either.

Jake does look like he needs to regroup mentally. He’s basically struggling for the first time in his nhl career and learning how to manage that. Letting him play through it has had less than stellar results.

Agreed. I like McKegg and I think he's a good fit for us, with the right linemates, but I'm not a fan of any 4th liner not named Cullen having a guaranteed spot. Even if it's just one game to just reignite some desperation.

He really might just need a game or 2 off to kind of refocus and break up the routine. I wouldn't be against Simon getting a cup of coffee either.

Kind of like Letang entering or exiting a zone or QBing a PP.

The only thing missing was the quadruple clutch.

Our PK sucks, I thought it was because sheahan and Kuhn who are two of the forwards on each unit, are too slow to attack and put the pressure, than I heard Sully last night on the presser saying something like: we ask our PK to be conservative to collapse and protect the goal, I was shocked to hear that WTF?? if thats true that is 180 degree opposite from what made them really good PK last year, I mean collapsing is recipe for disaster, getting shot at, breaking bones yet letting all kind of rebounds, full control of PP etc...Wrong move

Interesting. Good call. I was wondering why they were being so passive. I love our aggressive PK's. I figured the players were just being cautious this season. Even with Sheahan, and Kuhn in over Archie, we still have Hags, Rust, and McKegg. There's no reason not to press with that much speed. Yuck.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You think a 9 point pace per 82 is competent for a 3C on any team, let alone a Cup contender (15 point pace per 82 in his time in Pittsburgh)? Sheahan might START to be competent if he can move back to a 25 point pace, but at the level of production he is at, he's not competent. Although I suppose that depends on your definition of the word.

He's been on the team for 11 games, people need to calm the f*** down. He played fantastic yesterday with Hornqvist and Sheary and has found 2 wingers that seem to be helping him get out of his confidence issues offensively. Is he ideal? No, but people didn't think Bonino was either in his first half as a Penguin, Sheahan is a different case,but people seem to just look for negatives in his game and completely over look anything positive he does.

Stop being a god damned Pen X.

And news flash - Our PK sucks ass because it collapses in their diamond formation and is passive as f***. When they are good, it's because they trust the goalie and are pressuring the forwards every chance they got, being very aggressive. Now they just collapse, there's no confidence there. That is a coaching thing, not a player thing, has never been a player thing. It's all the coaching, they're playing passive PK, that doesn't fly for what has worked in the past for us.

 

[NMK11]

Obviously not, but it's been what, 11 games?

2015 Bonino's first 11 games: 2g, 1a, 3pts (2pts in 1 game).

2016 Bonino's first 11 games: 3a, 3pts

Sheahan's first 11 games: 2a, 2pts

So one particular poster here cries and whines about Bonino all the time. In reality, in the same sample size, Bonino didn't outperform Sheahan.

Do we need more out of him? Absolutely 100%. But people need to step away from the ledge for a moment.

But to be fair, Bonino had put up 39 and 49 point seasons just before coming to Pittsburgh, and had prorated season of 39 and 30 points before that, all while earning a reputation of playoff production and being a good defensive player. Sheahan had two seasons that match those point four years ago, but has been declining since. Different teams and situations and all that aside, players with a history of producing will always get more leeway than those that dont, and for good reason.

Im all for giving Sheahan a shot now that hes here, but weve really got to stop comparing him to Bonino. They were different players when they came here, and Bonino isnt on the team anymore. Weve got to stop comparing them.

 

[ncm7772]

I'm fine with McKegg as the fourth line center, but only with an upgrade at 3C. If we're not going to replace the offense Cullen brought, our 4C needs to be good at faceoffs and bring the speed and pressure, which he's been doing well.

I also don't really agree that our third line has been outstanding. To me that's just as delusional as saying they've been terrible.

Yes and yes. Third line hasn't been awful overall, but at with the 4th, they need to start scoring. Tuesday night was a good start.

 

[ncm7772]

Exactly. That is the one thing about Sully that does worry me. We need to restore that competition. There's too much complacency.

We have 2 guys on IR right now too. We could get Archie in and get a WBS guy, or 2, a cup of coffee. Reaves should also get a game in the press box here and there. Same with McKegg. Hell, at risk of a HF implosion, the thought of giving Jake a game off has crossed my mind.

Damn, that may indeed start an implosion! I hear what you're saying, and yeah, maybe giving him a night off will get him going. But I don't he's been awful. But like everyone else except Phil and Malkin, he's underperforming.

Since you bring up the 4th line, I don't see why Kuhnhackel is an every night player when Archibald is decaying in the press box. Get Archie up in therr every third game. Heck, get him in therr fer Hagelin sometimes, too. Man, is that guy snake bitten. 6 goals last year, 1 thus far this season. $4M. But I digress.

 

[Shady Machine]

Obviously not, but it's been what, 11 games?

2015 Bonino's first 11 games: 2g, 1a, 3pts (2pts in 1 game).

2016 Bonino's first 11 games: 3a, 3pts

Sheahan's first 11 games: 2a, 2pts

So one particular poster here cries and whines about Bonino all the time. In reality, in the same sample size, Bonino didn't outperform Sheahan.

Do we need more out of him? Absolutely 100%. But people need to step away from the ledge for a moment.

Who is on the ledge?

The production we are seeing for Sheahan is exactly what I expected. It's been 18 games this year and 2 points. Yeah I know, Blashill is a moron and hated him, but Sheahan's play was a major factor in his demotion.

Let's give it more time. I'm cool with that, but comparing him to that other guy that isn't on our team anymore that you said we needed to stop talking about (but apparently it's okay for you to talk about him when you think it suits your argument), is pretty silly since that guy was a 49 and 39 point player the previous 2 years. Meanwhile, Sheahan has 2 goals in the last 99 games. I'll give it 20 games on the Pens and see where he's at with his production.

 

[Shady Machine]

He's been on the team for 11 games, people need to calm the **** down. He played fantastic yesterday with Hornqvist and Sheary and has found 2 wingers that seem to be helping him get out of his confidence issues offensively. Is he ideal? No, but people didn't think Bonino was either in his first half as a Penguin, Sheahan is a different case,but people seem to just look for negatives in his game and completely over look anything positive he does.

Stop being a god damned Pen X.

And news flash - Our PK sucks ass because it collapses in their diamond formation and is passive as ****. When they are good, it's because they trust the goalie and are pressuring the forwards every chance they got, being very aggressive. Now they just collapse, there's no confidence there. That is a coaching thing, not a player thing, has never been a player thing. It's all the coaching, they're playing passive PK, that doesn't fly for what has worked in the past for us.

You seem to be the one that needs to calm down. Read my response again and then read yours and ask yourself "gee, which one of these posts seems more emotionally charged?"

Also, what does the PK crap have to do with my post?