Two sides of the coin though, no? Sid "shared" the load with him but that may also have taken opportunities away from Malkin to be fully a #1 since there's only one puck and Sid's been the golden boy for most of his career overshadowing Malkin, whereas Nate's arguably had that since Duchene and O'Reilly got traded, etc. Nate's best running mates have been Kadri, now Mittelstadt... so Nate gets all the prime offensive minutes he wants with the best wingers and Makar. Just my opinion, curious about your thoughts on what I said.
Peak Evgeni Malkin or Nathan MacKinnon right now?
- Thread starter SeanMoneyHands
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IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
I can't find anything that proves beyond all reasonable doubt that Nuke becomes the player he is today without playing with MacKinnon, so I can't discount it as a possibility.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
I agree, but I'd also prefer to play against Malkin's opponents in 2011-12 than against the league today. There's just so many more guys who are difficult to play against today.
- Apr 27, 2005
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I think the league was actually tougher to play against back then. There was still a fair amount of grit in the game and a lot more defensive defenseman than there are these days.
People saying that Malkin had Crosby, but I honestly believe Malkin would have had higher career totals without Crosby.
hairylikebear
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Okay so you're discussing hypotheticals and not reality, thanks.
Erik Alfredsson
Beast Mode Cowboy!
- Jan 14, 2012
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It's extremely tough to stop MacKinnon when he's at his peak. It was impossible to stop Malkin. I have never feared a player more in the playoffs than Malkin, when that guy wanted to score, he would, and there was nothing anyone could do about it.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
I think it was "tougher" to play, and there was much more physical play, because it was an era where lot of very good forwards battled against a lot of very good defensemen, with only a handful of elite scorers who could make even those very good defensemen look bad. Very few players in the league had elite level skating, so defenders could play tighter and more physical, without worrying about getting walked, which is why size became so important. Being 20 lbs heavier than someone who can't just walk around you is very beneficial, and the ability to do something like make an outlet pass becomes less important.
Today, defenders have to contend with some of the best skaters the NHL has ever seen, and playing tight and physical would be a stupid choice. As a result, we've seen a massive shift to a league where skating and skill matters more than just size. And if I have my choice of trying to skate around Dan Girardi with elite level skating, or skate through Sam Girard with more size, I think skating around Dan Girardi is going to be much easier and more effective.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
It's a hockey forum where we discuss which players is subjectively better and make hypothetical trades,. Which part of this is reality, exactly?
It's also reality that Nuke wasn't Nuke until after he started playing with MacKinnon, and was even worse than Neal was before showing up here. When Malkin is being propped up by claims that he turned Neal into a PPG scorer, Mack having some part in helping Nuke become Nuke seems relevant to me.
hairylikebear
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Your prior post was a meaningless answer to an honest question. Thank you for finally answering it, better late than never.
Neal and Nichushkin were on completely different trajectories when they left Dallas. Neal was a good young player who excelled at every level, came to Dallas and developed into a good goal scorer. Nichushkin badly needed a change of scenery to the extent that he returned to the Stars GM to apologize for not being the player he could have been.
The situations are too different to compare, and MacK's role in Nichushkin's growth as a player was trivial at best.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
Your post that was allegedly an "honest question" came off as a snide comment, much like this post which is why I didn't bother giving you a meaningful answer. Maybe you should check your tone instead of blaming me for reacting to it.
And you making unsubstantiated claims like "Mack's role was trivial at best" doesn't make that true. The reality is that Nuke has played more with Mack than without him over the last two seasons, and those are Nuke's two best seasons in his career. Why does Malkin get credit for Neal's best seasons but Mack gets zero credit for Nuke's?
dirtydanglez
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- Oct 30, 2022
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mackinnon. has the highest scoring season and has the higher production season as well.
mackinnons at 123pt season and counting vs makin who topped out a 113pts. mack's at 1.71ppg while malkin topped out at 1.45 ppg
mackinnons at 123pt season and counting vs makin who topped out a 113pts. mack's at 1.71ppg while malkin topped out at 1.45 ppg
hairylikebear
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I just don't think that MacK's responsibility for Nichushkin's improved stats is significant enough to mention because I saw Nichushkin get a lot better as a player while his stats were improving and I didn't see the same from Neal. When Neal left Pittsburgh, his stats reverted almost exactly to his Dallas days. Both were former Dallas players so I got tons of viewings, and I followed along closely with both after they left.
- Apr 27, 2005
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In a much higher scoring era...
tfwnogf
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Malkin was a terror, best player in the world when he was ON. Unstoppable. You know he had to be damn good to get the conn smythe over golden boy. Even better than Crosby at his peak. Malkin ainec.
dirtydanglez
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looks like the goals per game increased from 2.85 in 2008-09 (malkins peak season) to 3.14 so far this season. an increase of 10.2%. so making the same adjustments youd have malkin's 113 pts = 125 pts and his ppg of 1.45 = 1.52. so malkin would be ahead of mack by 2 points but mack still has another 10 games in hand and mack still has a .19ppg lead over malkin
BraveCanadian
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- Jun 30, 2010
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Malkin did that with f***ing Ruslan Fedotenko and Maxime Talbot…
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
I feel like Malkin was better but it might be nostalgia. The Conn Smythe is probably the deciding factor for me.
- Oct 9, 2012
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Turin
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Barely. Guys like Kucherov would not be scoring at his level in 2012, and I love Kucherov.
- Apr 27, 2005
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Malkin's peak was in 2011-12. 2.66 goals per game vs 3.08 today (removing shootout goals).
That's a 16% increase. And we know that scoring increases don't distribute evenly. Typically, top scorers get a larger benefit from incremental scoring benefits (i.e. a 16% increase in league wide scoring probably gives top scores a ~22-25%+ bump in production).
Example: 10th place in scoring this year is producing at 1.26 points per game vs 0.99 points per game in 2011-12, a 27% increase.
dirtydanglez
Registered User
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even if that were right mack still has the production edge and probably still beats the total points after adjusting for the scoring difference.
That wasn’t Malkin’s best year, it was 11-12
