Pats-Eagles SB:NHL's dream match-up

[RangerBoy]

The Patriots are in their third SB in four years and the Eagles finally broke through after getting to their fourth straight NFC championship game.The NHLPA's worst nightmare.One dynasty and the other is an extremely well run franchise in a NFL hard cap system.Hello Bob Goodenow,Ted Saskin,Trevor Linden and the NHLPA members

Both clubs have excellent management teams and quality coaching staffs(Charlie Weis/Romeo Crennel/Jim Johnson/Brad Childress).Both Bill Belichick and Andy Reid have major control over player personnel.They have excellent support staffs

The Eagles have Joe Banner who is regarded as one of the best management minds in pro sports

Banner's salary-cap expertise has been highlighted in recent years by a USA Today poll of team general managers and NFL executives which listed him as one of the league's most creative and innovative salary cap management experts and contract negotiators. The New York Times hailed him as "the Joe Montana of the salary cap. He's simply the best." ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli says he "should be the poster child for crafty and responsible salary cap management."

Esteemed Dallas Morning News columnist Rick Gosselin stated, "The Eagles [under Banner] have developed a strategy for the salary cap. And now it's the blueprint for financial success in the NFL: Draft well, play them young, extend them early."

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/frontofficebio.jsp?id=658

The Pats have Scott Pioli

For Pioli, the 2003 NFL Executive of the Year honor was actually the second time he had been recognized for such an honor. After the Patriots won Super Bowl XXXVI, the Dallas Morning News named Pioli their 2001 NFL Executive of the Year. In 2003, a variety of national publications came to the same conclusion, as Pro Football Weekly (voted on by the media), The Sporting News (voted on by NFL executives) and Sports Illustrated all tabbed Pioli as their honoree.

As vice president of player personnel, Pioli’s responsibilities include overseeing the college draft and free agency, as well as negotiating most of the Patriots’ free agent contracts. Since he arrived in New England, he has shown a propensity for finding veteran free agents who can contribute and play important roles in building playoff-contending teams. Since 2000, the Patriots have signed dozens of veteran free agents. In 2001 alone, the team’s class of 17 veteran free agents produced two team captains, seven full-time starters, three special teams specialists and two veteran nickel backs. The veteran leadership was critical to the Patriots’ success that year, as the team completed its divisional worst-to-first turnaround and set the then-franchise record of nine consecutive victories to close out the season as Super Bowl Champions. His successes that season earned him league-wide recognition as one of the best young personnel evaluators in the game.

http://cachewww.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=mgersexecsbio&bio=12539

The NHL should have Banner and Pioli run a seminar for their teams and the NHLPA exec members.They will learn something

Click to read more...

 

[Go Flames Go*]

There are ways around salary caps. Front loading, back loading contracts. There is also upfront signing bonuses or spread out. Players can still make there current amount in the NHL but there contracts will be restructred almost on a constant basis, but they will still get there money.

Look at TOm Brady he has had his contract restructred for the last two season and hes due to make another change in it again this year. You have to have smart people, most teams usally have a capoligst as they are called who manage the cap for them.

If Jarome Iginla is making 5 Million one season, and then 8 the next Sutter could go up to him we have targeted a few players in free agency but we don't have the cap space then okay, lets take that 3 million back load it and we give you some interest on that amount.

 

[Chili]

It's interesting that one of the key players for the Eagles, Jeremiah Trotter, left the team for a megabucks deal but came back this year for I believe at or close to the veteran minimum. Hugh Douglas is a similiar case.

I could see the NHLPA frowning on these types of moves in the NHL because they would lower the average salary. Players should be free to sign below market value, if they so choose, without worrying about the PA's reaction. There are players who do put the situation before the money.

 

[mr gib]

There are ways around salary caps. Front loading, back loading contracts. There is also upfront signing bonuses or spread out. Players can still make there current amount in the NHL but there contracts will be restructred almost on a constant basis, but they will still get there money.

Look at TOm Brady he has had his contract restructred for the last two season and hes due to make another change in it again this year. You have to have smart people, most teams usally have a capoligst as they are called who manage the cap for them.

If Jarome Iginla is making 5 Million one season, and then 8 the next Sutter could go up to him we have targeted a few players in free agency but we don't have the cap space then okay, lets take that 3 million back load it and we give you some interest on that amount.

do you make this up all on your own?

 

[Go Flames Go*]

do you make this up all on your own?

What the **** are you talking about?

If you follow the NFL you would know Tom Brady has restructured his contract twice and it is expected he will do it again this year. Its not out of the ordinary for a player to back load his money it happens in many leagues.

 

[mr gib]

What the **** are you talking about?

If you follow the NFL you would know Tom Brady has restructured his contract twice and it is expected he will do it again this year. Its not out of the ordinary for a player to back load his money it happens in many leagues.

no no - the part about jerome - you made that up!? -

 

[Go Flames Go*]

no no - the part about jerome - you made that up!? -

I just used that as an example of how to go around a cap and make room to get players without the player actually loosing money.

 

[mr gib]

I just used that as an example of how to go around a cap and make room to get players without the player actually loosing money.

the league is not gonna go for that - that is not - cost certainty - they want every loophole closed -

 

[Go Flames Go*]

the league is not gonna go for that - that is not - cost certainty - they want every loophole closed -

Contracts will be gaurnteed they have said. The team will still be charged that extra 3 million backloaded in the contract, they wont be going over the cap, they will just slide over the 3 million to a different year.

 

[mr gib]

Contracts will be gaurnteed they have said. The team will still be charged that extra 3 million backloaded in the contract, they wont be going over the cap, they will just slide over the 3 million to a different year.

can you supply a link to support your claim?

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Its common sense. NFL teams with more money backload contracts and give bigger signing bonuses in order to create more cap room at the present time.

Besides, I don't understand why pro-NHL people continue to talk about the NFL. You want to talk about it, than let's talk about the revenue sharing program the NFL has had in place for a long time that has gotten that league to where it is now, and why the NHL won't accept revenue sharing.

 

[SENSible1*]

Notice that both these teams, instead of losing core members as PA aplogists claim is inevitable, added star players this season.

How did the Pats get Dillon?

How did the Eagles add Jevon Kearse?

Well managed teams rise to the top, PERIOD.

As a Sens fan I say bring on the cap and let's see which teams are the best run.

 

[SENSible1*]

Its common sense. NFL teams with more money backload contracts and give bigger signing bonuses in order to create more cap room at the present time.

Besides, I don't understand why pro-NHL people continue to talk about the NFL. You want to talk about it, than let's talk about the revenue sharing program the NFL has had in place for a long time that has gotten that league to where it is now, and why the NHL won't accept revenue sharing.

Revenue sharing has nothing to do with management of cap space. How the owners pay the players is 100% their business.

If you want to argue the players deseve a bigger slice of the pie, go for it, but don't pretend that revenue sharing is an essential ingredient.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Revenue sharing has nothing to do with management of cap space. How the owners pay the players is 100% their business.

If you want to argue the players deseve a bigger slice of the pie, go for it, but don't pretend that revenue sharing is an essential ingredient.

Pretend that revenue sharing is an essential ingredient? Pretend? Are you denying that? How could you? How could you deny that the NFL is succesful because long ago they implemented revenue sharing and they have stuck to it?

Anyway, my point is that on the whole, if you are going to bring the NFL's cap into this, than you have to bring the NFL's revenue sharing into this as well. The two go hand in hand at this point. Revenue sharing came long before the cap, thus it is more important to the league, but that's not something worth arguing about. Bottom line is they have both, if you want to talk about one, talk about the other.

 

[i am dave]

How did the Eagles add Jevon Kearse?

Don't forget Terrell Owens.

Anyway, my point is that on the whole, if you are going to bring the NFL's cap into this, than you have to bring the NFL's revenue sharing into this as well. The two go hand in hand at this point.

To a certain degree, I understand why the pro-PA doesn't think the NHL and NFL can be compared. One has massive revenue sharing, the other doesn't. Fine.

But if you want to talk about revenue sharing then do you not also have to talk about revenue?? What I don't understand is why those same people don't see that the NHL simply doesn't generate enough revenue to NOT have a cap. I mean, if any league could survive financially without a cap, it's the NFL. I guess it falls into a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" category.

I'm a huge Flyers fan, so a salary cap will hurt me more than many others. But I just think it's necessary for the game to survive.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Revenue sharing has nothing to do with management of cap space. How the owners pay the players is 100% their business.

If you want to argue the players deseve a bigger slice of the pie, go for it, but don't pretend that revenue sharing is an essential ingredient.

Accepting rvenue sharing would go a long way toward sealing the deal for owners, at least in the public's eye, as it would show the reasons for the lockout and the "necessity" of implementing a cap. Cap for competitive balance and financial health league-wide (noble) vs. Cap as way to artificially hold down expenses so we can make more money (greedy).

So many on these boards view a cap as a way to ensure comptitive balance, but I'm not sure the league has ever sold it any other way than as a mechanism to control costs.

 

[CarlRacki]

can you supply a link to support your claim?

Can you?

 

[triggrman]

Restruction contracts eventually catch-up though. The Titans are hurting from this now as well as the extremely high number of injuries this season. The titans are still paying on the signing bonuses of Kearse, George, Thorton, etc, even though these players don't even play with the Titans anymore. You can only restructure so much.

 

[CarlRacki]

Restruction contracts eventually catch-up though. The Titans are hurting from this now as well as the extremely high number of injuries this season. The titans are still paying on the signing bonuses of Kearse, George, Thorton, etc, even though these players don't even play with the Titans anymore. You can only restructure so much.

I'm not sure it's possible that they're still paying Kearse's contract. He left as a UFA after his contract expired. For cap purposes signing bonuses cannot be extended beyond the life of the contract. With George it's different because he was waived.
Regardless, if teams suffer for a couple years down the line because they want to make a Super Bowl run or two, it's their choice.

 

[SENSible1*]

Pretend that revenue sharing is an essential ingredient? Pretend? Are you denying that? How could you? How could you deny that the NFL is succesful because long ago they implemented revenue sharing and they have stuck to it?

Anyway, my point is that on the whole, if you are going to bring the NFL's cap into this, than you have to bring the NFL's revenue sharing into this as well. The two go hand in hand at this point. Revenue sharing came long before the cap, thus it is more important to the league, but that's not something worth arguing about. Bottom line is they have both, if you want to talk about one, talk about the other.

Yes PRETEND. The PA wants reveue sharing simply to increase the supply of money, causing inflation and thus increasing their share of the pie.

I'd like to see them argue why they deserve a higher % and stop PRETENDING that they care about how the owners find the money to pay them the share they have promised.

 

[mr gib]

Can you?

i'll have to look for it - i think it's in the league's first 6 proposal's - no signing bonus's or deferred money -

 

[Trottier]

The Patriots are in their third SB in four years and the Eagles finally broke through after getting to their fourth straight NFC championship game.The NHLPA's worst nightmare.One dynasty and the other is an extremely well run franchise in a NFL hard cap system.Hello Bob Goodenow,Ted Saskin,Trevor Linden and the NHLPA members

True.

And Calgary/TB, Anaheim, Carolina and Buffalo (read: "poor, poor teams who cannot spend like the big boys and have no chance of competing" ) making recent Stanley Cup Finals runs totally counter to Bettman's competition propaganda, which some swallow fully.

How odd that you and your ilk ignore or humorously bypass those examples. ("But those are just exceptions! Cinderellas!" )

Fact is, a deep, vast level of competition is found in both the current NHL and the NFL. To bring forth select facts without providing the entire picture is...disingenuous.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

http://www.nhlcbanews.com/news/record_straight_contracts110404.html

A link for Gaurnteed Contracts and Bettman even said after there significant proposal back in December that there will be gaurnteed contracts.

 

[Cawz]

The Patriots are in their third SB in four years and the Eagles finally broke through after getting to their fourth straight NFC championship game.The NHLPA's worst nightmare.One dynasty and the other is an extremely well run franchise in a NFL hard cap system.Hello Bob Goodenow,Ted Saskin,Trevor Linden and the NHLPA members

True.

And Calgary/TB, Anaheim, Carolina and Buffalo (read: "poor, poor teams who cannot spend like the big boys and have no chance of competing" ) making recent Stanley Cup Finals runs totally counter to Bettman's competition propaganda, which some swallow fully.

How odd that you and your ilk ignore or humorously bypass those examples. ("But those are just exceptions! Cinderellas!" )

Please note the words in bold, and comment on your comparison.

 

[RangerBoy]

can you supply a link to support your claim?

Look at Tom Brady's contract terms which change constantly

http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#brady