Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VII: Eliitti! - Mod Warning Post #79

Status
Not open for further replies.

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
Sponsor
Oct 11, 2014
38,856
24,729
Five Hills
This suggestion that Little has somehow fallen off a cliff in like 3 months is completely asinine.

He is definitely not playing up to snuff. But neither are Laine or Ehlers. They are all performing under expectations but when the rest of the lines are performing above expectation there is no need to change anything. You don't change your lineup when 3 of 4 lines are gelling and one isn't. You change the lineup when it's the opposite.
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
Agreed. IMO you pull out the blender when you need to jump start the team, not when they are on a roll. So what happens if Mo changes up the lines before Nashville and the team goes cold on a tough road trip? A time will come, likely after a couple loses that the lines get switched up.

That's reasonable. If it happens as you said, after a couple of losses. I don't have as much faith in Maurice as you have but if that actually happens I'd be happy with that.
 

Festinator

Registered User
Apr 6, 2016
3,689
2,849
Calgary
What I am suggesting is that your argumentation is awful. You specifically stated that with line combos, the past needs to factored in just like the present. Scheifele and Wheeler are a working combination on both accounts. The only problem you would ever have with that is if you cared about Laine's point totals so much that you would ignore parts of your own logic to make everything work with your narrative.

For the record, even I agree with swapping Laine and Wheeler. It is just ****ing pathetic when people prioritize any individual player's success over the team's success. What's more, it gets even worse when they're trying to disguise it.
Exactly.

Almost everyone agrees that ESL and CLW would probably work and would work well. It's just that most people can see that now is NOT the right time to make that change. If CSW was working but we were losing games, I would switch it up now, but we're winning. All you need to do is look at all the successful teams in the past. They didn't randomly mix up the lines in the middle of a 7 game win streak unless there was an injury.
 

Randal61

Registered User
Jan 12, 2014
603
197
Agreed. IMO you pull out the blender when you need to jump start the team, not when they are on a roll. So what happens if Mo changes up the lines before Nashville and the team goes cold on a tough road trip? A time will come, likely after a couple loses that the lines get switched up.
Wins are wins.
I don't see this team as being broke at he moment. The second line isn't firing on all cylinders right now, but no need to get out the blender at this point.
Lose a stinker and then maybe tinker a bit.
 

Festinator

Registered User
Apr 6, 2016
3,689
2,849
Calgary
Second line is broken...
The only thing the second line is lacking is actually putting the puck in the net. Every other part of the game they've been excelling at. Their corsi is actually far better than the first line. It's not broken, it's not hindering our success, it's not losing us momentum, so let's not break up what HAS been making us successful for something that isn't even hurting the team.
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
The best way to achieve the winning we crave is to stay on course. We are in fact winning right now.

If your main goals for the season are in the regular season success, I fully understand your position.

But Jets should be all about Lord Stanley's Cup so for their priorities I prefer finding the best combinations early and then letting the lines develop together, even at a mild cost to regular season success. And there is no guarantee that there is any cost to it. You only find out by trying it.
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
The only thing the second line is lacking is actually putting the puck in the net. Every other part of the game they've been excelling at. Their corsi is actually far better than the first line. It's not broken, it's not hindering our success, it's not losing us momentum, so let's not break up what HAS been making us successful for something that isn't even hurting the team.

That's a huge lack for a line that has so much offensive talent in it.

For a supposed 2nd line. That won't do in the playoffs, having half of your top 4 offensive players performing like a good shut down 4th line. It just won't do. Competition won't make that mistake.

Leaving a looooooot of offense on the bench is not a long term success
 

Festinator

Registered User
Apr 6, 2016
3,689
2,849
Calgary
That's a huge lack for a line that has so much offensive talent in it.

For a supposed 2nd line. That won't do in the playoffs, having half of your top 4 offensive players performing like a good shut down 4th line. It just won't do. Competition won't make that mistake.
Do you honestly believe they'd still be together in the playoffs if they struggled offensively for the next 60 games? Even PoMo will draw the line at some point. But to get to the playoffs, you need to win, and that's what we're doing right now. You can't take your foot off the gas to "experiment" just yet, especially in the Central. Fix it when making the playoffs isn't as big of a question mark, or when the first line starts playing poorly, or when there's an injury.

It is certain to happen at some point, probably sooner than later. If we keep winning, changing things up isn't as big of a risk. If one of the other 2 things happen, we're forced to. Just be patient and enjoy the wins.
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
Do you honestly believe they'd still be together in the playoffs if they struggled offensively for the next 60 games? Even PoMo will draw the line at some point. But to get to the playoffs, you need to win, and that's what we're doing right now. You can't take your foot off the gas to "experiment" just yet, especially in the Central. Fix it when making the playoffs isn't as big of a question mark, or when the first line starts playing poorly, or when there's an injury.

It is certain to happen at some point, probably sooner than later. If we keep winning, changing things up isn't as big of a risk. If one of the other 2 things happen, we're forced to. Just be patient and enjoy the wins.

You have more faith in PoMo's reasoning than I do.

I was done with this line after 5 games last season. Now they have been stinking up the place for over 30 games.

I got it after a couple of games. How f***ing long is it going to take this supposed coach? He's a dense mofo when it comes to lines. Great conversationalist, dense coach.
 

YWGinYYZ

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
28,480
7,117
Toronto
Maurice is the King of the Blender. He's also the King of Run What's Been Working.

Guaranteed that the top two lines will get mixed up the minute they lose a couple of games, based on his previous behaviours. We'll see Laine-Schiefele, and we'll see Little-Wheeler, and it'll be glorious. Until then, I'm happy to bide my time as they pile up the wins (I'll save the thoughts regarding sustainability for another thread).
 

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
Sponsor
Oct 11, 2014
38,856
24,729
Five Hills
If your main goals for the season are in the regular season success, I fully understand your position.

But Jets should be all about Lord Stanley's Cup so for their priorities I prefer finding the best combinations early and then letting the lines develop together, even at a mild cost to regular season success. And there is no guarantee that there is any cost to it. You only find out by trying it.

The cost of regular season success is not making the playoffs. It's a case of trying to count you chickens before they hatch. Want to tinker with lines? Either wait for a losing streak or wait until we have locked down a playoff spot. At that point I'd be willing to try out any and all combos. You never tinker with a winning lineup. That's a good way to lose any and all momentum you have.
 

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
Sponsor
Oct 11, 2014
38,856
24,729
Five Hills
You have more faith in PoMo's reasoning than I do.

I was done with this line after 5 games last season. Now they have been stinking up the place for over 30 games.

I got it after a couple of games. How ****ing long is it going to take this supposed coach? He's a dense mofo when it comes to lines. Great conversationalist, dense coach.

We were also winning games last season with them together. If a magical lamp genie told me that if you keep ELL together, they wouldn't score very often but you will win twice as many games as you will lose. I'd do it 100% of the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Legend Leinonen

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
10,440
Maurice is the King of the Blender. He's also the King of Run What's Been Working.

Guaranteed that the top two lines will get mixed up the minute they lose a couple of games, based on his previous behaviours. We'll see Laine-Schiefele, and we'll see Little-Wheeler, and it'll be glorious. Until then, I'm happy to bide my time as they pile up the wins (I'll save the thoughts regarding sustainability for another thread).

Actually according to this Dellow article published a month ago, Maurice is far from King of the line jugglers (blender) In fact he's pretty conservative in that area compared to his peers.

Dellow: Is your favourite team coached by a Line Juggler?...

Maurice is conservative as well, although in his case, he seems to have been particularly conservative in Winnipeg when it comes to making changes to his lines when the Jets are chasing the game.
 

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
Sponsor
Oct 11, 2014
38,856
24,729
Five Hills
Actually according to this Dellow article published a month ago, Maurice is far from King of the line jugglers (blender) In fact he's pretty conservative in that area compared to his peers.

Dellow: Is your favourite team coached by a Line Juggler?...

Maurice is conservative as well, although in his case, he seems to have been particularly conservative in Winnipeg when it comes to making changes to his lines when the Jets are chasing the game.

Damn Athletic subscription...
 

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
We were also winning games last season with them together. If a magical lamp genie told me that if you keep ELL together, they wouldn't score very often but you will win twice as many games as you will lose. I'd do it 100% of the time.

Do you think that the 2nd line sucking ass offensively is somehow magically helping the team win more?

More than they could be winning if the 2nd line DIDN'T suck ass offensively?
 

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
Sponsor
Oct 11, 2014
38,856
24,729
Five Hills
Do you think that the 2nd line sucking ass offensively is somehow magically helping the team win more?

More than they could be winning if the 2nd line DIDN'T suck ass offensively?

I think the defensive line sucking ass offensively has not had a negative effect on us winning games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Legend Leinonen

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
I think the defensive line sucking ass offensively has not had a negative effect on us winning games.

Why is a second line with 2x6 million dollar players and the best shooter in the game a defensive shut down line? In what f***ing universe does that make sense to anyone?

Do you feel playoff success can come with 2 of your top 4 offensive talents playing good shut down 4th line role?

Is that proper usage in your opinion?

Does it get all out of the engine? Is it the best we can possibly see them utilized.

Please answer above questions so I can get a glimpse of your reasoning behind it.
 

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
Sponsor
Oct 11, 2014
38,856
24,729
Five Hills
Why is a second line with 2x6 million dollar players and the best shooter in the game a defensive shut down line? In what ****ing universe does that make sense to anyone?

Do you feel playoff success can come with 2 of your top 4 offensive talents playing good shut down 4th line role?

Is that proper usage in your opinion?

Does it get all out of the engine? Is it the best we can possibly see them utilized.

Please answer above questions so I can get a glimpse of your reasoning behind it.

They aren't the defensive shutdown line. Lowry's line is. They are actually the line that see's the most offensive zone starts on the team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Legend Leinonen

SirKlaus

Registered User
Nov 8, 2017
91
330
Lol. Doesn't matter who plays with Scheifele, the line will be successful because he's so damn good. I'd like to see Scheif centering Laine and some scrub.....Armia or something.
I didn't say that Laine+Scheif wouldn't be successful. I was talking about overall effect of changing the lines. Team is winning. Let's ride it out until they aren't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Legend Leinonen

Psych0dad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
3,347
2,912
Saint John, N.B
I didn't say that Laine+Scheif wouldn't be successful. I was talking about overall effect of changing the lines. Team is winning. Let's ride it out until they aren't.

That is fair. We don't know the overall effect before it's tested and the testing should start with a couple of losses.
 

LowLefty

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 29, 2016
7,122
12,589
I wouldn't touch anything right now - but this road trip could amplify a few of the issues being covered here. We'll be up against top notch competition and there is no better way of measuring than against the best.

I'm crossing my fingers on the 2nd line - I hope they get it together. The last think I want to see is a dismantling of the 2nd that will impact the 1st and 3rd (who, IMO, are well set up and need to be left alone).

But, if things blow up on the road, don't be surprised if they start moving a few pieces around. Contrary to a few of the comments so far, I don't see Maurice sitting on his line combo's if they start losing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->